Official Roon User Impressions Thread

[OneHandWaving]

Edit: Let me try to explain this a bit better. You can't sit at the server computer and select a client as an audio output.

 

Thanks for the clarification. That seems reasonable (for me at least) and makes more sense.

[Anil Kalagatla]

I have seen this as well. Interestingly, my Core "remembers" the previous zone selection (which is a remote running on a mac mini and connected to a DAC), even though it no longer shows up in my list of accessible audio zones in Core. I didn't switch the zone on my Core, in case I can;t get it back.

 

All in all, I think this whole private vs public zones thing needs to be thought through more carefully. Another limitation I will probably run into soon is that I can not use an Anrdoid/iOS app (which would be another remote) to control audio playback on my mac mini (which is also another client) - this is because remotes are not supposed to be able to access audio zones of other remotes. This seems like a rather arbitrary restriction to me.

 

Danny: Can you describe the philosophy behind zones in Roon and how they're supposed to work? I think you can enable really powerful setups if you simply enabled sharing of private zones between "trusted" peer remote clients (e.g., remote on my mac mini can allow a remote on my iphone to access its zone).

 

Anil

[robbbby]

I love the Roon software but the whole private zone thing is one I don't quite understand.

 

I have a CAPS and a fileserver, for me the ideal way would be to run the core/library manager on the file server and have the remote install on my CAPS while using the iOS app to control the playback on CAPS, however this won't be possible, the mobile apps can only control the core.

To me it doesn't make sense to make my CAPS waste the processing power constantly checking for library changes, updating, scanning, grabbing cloud info, etc. That should be left for the more powerful fileserver meant to handle these sort of tasks.

 

I hate to compare Roon to JRiver but JRemote was amazing in this regard. JRemote could connect to and computer running JRiver and could playback audio where ever you wanted it to, would be nice to do the same with Roon.

[dannyroonlabs]

Ok, Private vs Public Zones:

 

Zones are composed of 1 or more endpoints (multi-endpoint zones are what we called grouped zones, so you can play the same thing in two locations or more). We only support grouped (or some people called it "linked zones") with kind types... so for example, Meridian zones can link to Meridian zones, and Airplay with Airplay. USB zones can not be currently linked, but it is on our roadmap.

 

A remote exposes its own outputs as zones, but the idea is that remotes are transient in nature, and not fixed infrastructure. For that reason, we chose to call them Private Zones and make them only accessible from the remote itself. They may not be the feature you are looking for, but they are the right feature for some scenarios.

 

For the situation where you want to use computers, tablets, phones, network audio components, etc as your zones, and those devices don't support Airplay, Meridian Streaming, or SongCast (in dev now), then you need those devices to run RoonSpeakers, which is our own streaming protocol that solves many of the issues related to latency, buffering, clock ownership, clock drift, samplerate/frequency negotiation, etc. It also allows us to build user experiences like we do, unlike pull based protocols like OpenHome and UPnP (we really need to write that blog post I've been promising about why the pull model leads to bad UX).

 

Anyway, we are working with 15+ hardware partners at the moment (more being added daily post-Munich) to add RoonSpeakers to their devices. Many of the brands you love here are on our list. On top of that, we are going to be releasing RoonSpeakers as a Mac OS X application that lives in your menubar, a Windows application that lives in your system tray, and iOS and Android apps as well. We even have something working on the Raspberry Pi. I think you guys have already convinced us that a Linux build (headless) needs to be released for Roon and for RoonSpeakers.

 

So, where private zones won't meet your needs, you should run a less transient endpoint that isn't tied to the Roon application, software RoonSpeakers!

 

Does that make more sense?

[baddog]

@danny - yes it does, thank you for the detailed clarification.

[Anil Kalagatla]

Ok, Private vs Public Zones:

 

So, where private zones won't meet your needs, you should run a less transient endpoint that isn't tied to the Roon application, software RoonSpeakers!

 

Does that make more sense?

 

Very cool, this sounds exactly like what we would want. Just to be clear, once we have a (say) Mac OSX Roon speaker, can I control it from any remote (including a future iPad remote)? If so, that would meet my (our?) requirements.

 

Again thanks for your active participation and listening to and providing detailed answers. That in itself is going to be one of your competitive advantages!

 

Anil

 

BTW, I just wanted to mention that I ended up purchasing a lifetime subscription after watching Chris's video and then spending a few hours of forum reading. Even for me, that was a very impulsive decision and I have not been disappointed so far :-) I just wanted to plug CA as the impetus for my purchase decision. I'm sure there are others who are similarly influenced by this website, so I really appreciate your spending a lot of energy on these forums.

[dannyroonlabs]

Yes, all non-private zones are controllable from anywhere.

 

When you said "This seems like a rather arbitrary restriction to me.", you were right. There is no technical reason to do it. The reason is purely functional. Transient devices should not have such an easy way to turn on what is normally permanent infrastructure. That will only lead to poor results. We don't want to prevent the functionality, we just want to do it right.

Roon loves CA too! You all are our hardest customers, but also our most satisfying, because we know you love this stuff as much as we do.

[digitalzed]

Roon loves CA too! You all are our hardest customers, but also our most satisfying, because we know you love this stuff as much as we do.

I do for sure!

[robbbby]

Yes, all non-private zones are controllable from anywhere.

 

When you said "This seems like a rather arbitrary restriction to me.", you were right. There is no technical reason to do it. The reason is purely functional. Transient devices should not have such an easy way to turn on what is normally permanent infrastructure. That will only lead to poor results. We don't want to prevent the functionality, we just want to do it right.

 

Roon loves CA too! You all are our hardest customers, but also our most satisfying, because we know you love this stuff as much as we do.

 

I guess i'm not understanding 100% what sort of role the iOS and android apps are going to play. Are they an endpoint or strictly a control point? If they are just a controller, would it not make sense to allow them to simply 'control' any instance of Roon regardless if it is a core or remote installation?

[dannyroonlabs]

I guess i'm not understanding 100% what sort of role the iOS and android apps are going to play. Are they an endpoint or strictly a control point? If they are just a controller, would it not make sense to allow them to simply 'control' any instance of Roon regardless if it is a core or remote installation?

 

I'm using my Google Nexus 9 Android Tablet (fast, and the only one I reccommend!) as a controller to my Roon "Core" running on a Windows machine (and sometimes my Mac).

 

The Android Roon also publishes a Private Zone (a zone only my Nexus 9 can see).

 

I can also run RoonSpeakers Android App on the tablet for a non-Private Zone (a zone any Roon controller on the network can see).

 

We are hoping to push out a pre-release of Roon for Android this week or early next week. iPad in the few weeks after.

 

Software RoonSpeakers is coming around the same time as iPad I hope, and It'll come for Mac/Windows first, and then Android, and then iOS. Different teams are working on it, so it depends on who finishes first.

 

One thing to note is that the iPad Roon will probably not expose a Private Zone. We haven't been able to get that to play rehliably. The RoonSpeakers app for iPad should be fine however.

 

I know it's a bit confusing because there are many moving pieces, but once you try it out, it's just plumbing -- get it going and you can forget all about it. Also, we will write up some good docs on this when the time is right.

 

Oh, one more thing. Roon for Android/iPad is mostly a fully functional Roon as a "Remote". It can not manage your library.

 

Have you tried out Roon yet and played with Remote vs Core?

[robbbby]

I bought a lifetime membership on day one and I have played with remote vs core. I'm happy regardless, but from my perspective it makes much more sense to run Roon in the configuration I mention above (fileserver running Roon core, playback pc connected to dac running Roon remote, Ipad app controlling browsing and playback for music playback PC).

[dannyroonlabs]

I bought a lifetime membership on day one and I have played with remote vs core. I'm happy regardless, but from my perspective it makes much more sense to run Roon in the configuration I mention above (fileserver running Roon core, playback pc connected to dac running Roon remote, Ipad app controlling browsing and playback for music playback PC).

 

100% agreed. What are you running for a file server?

 

I've just scheduled the testing phase of our headless Roon builds... Windows, Mac, Linux! For Linux, I need to figure out QPKG or docker first.

[Zakus]

it makes much more sense to run Roon in the configuration I mention above (fileserver running Roon core, playback pc connected to dac running Roon remote, Ipad app controlling browsing and playback for music playback PC).

 

Above makes 100% sense to me and is how I hoped it would work. Personally an iMac with attached external hard-drive (gets away from NAS configurating) as the "core", a macbook air attached to USB Dac (portable between different DAC, eg main system and Dragonfly) with the hope the iPad could browse and control play back on the macbook air set up as a remote.

 

From reading would roonspeakers allow this set=up to work?

[dannyroonlabs]

Above makes 100% sense to me and is how I hoped it would work. Personally an iMac with attached external hard-drive (gets away from NAS configurating) as the "core", a macbook air attached to USB Dac (portable between different DAC, eg main system and Dragonfly) with the hope the iPad could browse and control play back on the macbook air set up as a remote.

 

From reading would roonspeakers allow this set=up to work?

 

Roon "Core" on your iMac.

RoonSpeakers app on MacBookAir w/ DAC

Roon "Remote" on iPad

 

You'd need one Roon membership, to run the "Core" on your iMac, and everything else just works.

[Zakus]

Roon "Core" on your iMac.

RoonSpeakers app on MacBookAir w/ DAC

Roon "Remote" on iPad

 

You'd need one Roon membership, to run the "Core" on your iMac, and everything else just works.

 

Thanks for confirming what I thought I understood but wasn't 100% sure.

 

Anyway bought Roon membership 2 days into my free trial :-).

[robbbby]

100% agreed. What are you running for a file server?

 

I've just scheduled the testing phase of our headless Roon builds... Windows, Mac, Linux! For Linux, I need to figure out QPKG or docker first.

 

Win8 with a first gen core i7 940. Obviously not the best hardware out there but it would be nice to put it to work

So with my configuration above, i'd eventually not even have to install the Roon software on my music playback PC, i'd only need to install the RoonSpeakers software and the iOS app will be able to stream to the RoonSpeakers?

[Priaptor]

Danny,

 

I am DEFINITELY in, however, my main DAC doesn't do well without ASIO. I see two camps here. One that are most concerned about getting all the functionality that Roon has planned as soon as possible and those of us who are most concerned about SQ and getting things like ASIO up an running as soon as possible as that is all that some of our DACs work properly with. Of course most of us are in both camps.

 

Any idea what the time table or planning is to get ASIO working?

[dtb300]

Any idea what the time table or planning is to get ASIO working?

+1 on getting ASIO functionality SOONER rather than Later...

[Priaptor]

+1 on getting ASIO functionality SOONER rather than Later...

 

I couldn't agree more.

[dannyroonlabs]

@robbbby -- the iOS app is only a remote to the Roon "Core". You must have Roon installed somewhere where it owns the management of your library. Roon Remotes won't do that. That said, you can run that on another machine, and only run RoonSpeakers on your audio machine.

 

 

ASIO is under development :-) It can't go any faster!

[magicknow]

@dannyroonlabs

 

Danny will Roon be shown at the Newport Show at the end of the month, if so what room will roon be in

 

Reminds me of Peter Sellers in Pink Panther " Have you got a roon"

[Priaptor]

@robbbby -- the iOS app is only a remote to the Roon "Core". You must have Roon installed somewhere where it owns the management of your library. Roon Remotes won't do that. That said, you can run that on another machine, and only run RoonSpeakers on your audio machine.

 

 

ASIO is under development :-) It can't go any faster!

 

 

I know, just busting your cahonas. It can't come soon enough as I really want to use Roon on my MSB.

[dtb300]

ASIO is under development :-) It can't go any faster!

 

Excellent news!!!

[dannyroonlabs]

Danny will Roon be shown at the Newport Show at the end of the month, if so what room will roon be in

 

 

Enno and Rob will be there. We don't have a room, as our #1 priority at the show is to meet with as many hardware manufacturers as possible. Our existing partners will be showing off Roon, and Enno and Rob will be taking meetings and demoing with various partners.

[MarkS]

Enno and Rob will be there. We don't have a room, as our #1 priority at the show is to meet with as many hardware manufacturers as possible. Our existing partners will be showing off Roon, and Enno and Rob will be taking meetings and demoing with various partners.

 

Could you please let us know by posting here which rooms in Newport are running Roon. I'm coming to the show from NYC with 2 goals, and one is to see and hear Roon.