UpTone Audio USB Regen Listening Impressions

[Le Concombre Masqué]

Superdad ! Yes, to go wave riding : Tjpro Surfboards | Firewire Surfboards | Custom Surfboards | Surfing

I assume you mean for wave surfing. Or do you ride one of those giant skateboards down winding mountain roads? (very dangerous but fun to watch; not as much fun as watching surfing success and wipeouts)

I grew up on Southern California beaches, but mostly body-surfed, rode racing bicycles, and picked up girls--at least when I wasn't tinkering with hi-fi in Robert Hovland's garage.

[Stereolab42]

The biggest selling point of owning an exaSound DAC is the bitperfect transmission, right? ("USB Input: Proprietary ZeroJitter™ asynchronous USB interface with error correction on classic B–Type connector, USB cable included.") I would like to see even a theoretical explanation of how this could possibly improve sound with those DACs.

[Jud]

The biggest selling point of owning an exaSound DAC is the bitperfect transmission, right? ("USB Input: Proprietary ZeroJitter™ asynchronous USB interface with error correction on classic B–Type connector, USB cable included.") I would like to see even a theoretical explanation of how this could possibly improve sound with those DACs.

 

If you're curious enough, buy a Regen, lend it to George, and you'll have measurements.

[Superdad]

If you're curious enough, buy a Regen, lend it to George, and you'll have measurements.

 

Well he asked for a "theoretical explanation." John Swenson has posted an abundance of those here, ranging from the very technical to a little lighter. I'm too tired tonight (and still have an hour of shipping label collating to go) to post the links. I am sure someone else here will. But I don't think Stereolab42 is all that curious anyway or he would have already sought and found the explanation he says he is looking for.

 

Measurements from us may come in due time. If the effects of sub-optimal USB input signal integrity on the DAC were easy to measure then designers would have eliminated it a while ago.

 

Of course the proof is in the pudding…or in these little black boxes that are flying out at a ridiculous rate.

[wisnon]

The biggest selling point of owning an exaSound DAC is the bitperfect transmission, right? ("USB Input: Proprietary ZeroJitter™ asynchronous USB interface with error correction on classic B–Type connector, USB cable included.") I would like to see even a theoretical explanation of how this could possibly improve sound with those DACs.

 

Yes, RUN and go buy one...the biggest selling point for Exa is the Steinberg Mac customized driver that allows DSD256 playback with Mac.

 

Regen restores signal integrity (while not creating more jitter). Best seen by running an oscilloscope and looking at the digital (square wave). I postulate, just like with the Digi-lampizator circuit for SPDIF, that the AFTER square wave will be much "squarer" than the before.

[Stereolab42]

Well he asked for a "theoretical explanation." John Swenson has posted an abundance of those here, ranging from the very technical to a little lighter. I'm too tired tonight (and still have an hour of shipping label collating to go) to post the links. I am sure someone else here will. But I don't think Stereolab42 is all that curious anyway or he would have already sought and found the explanation he says he is looking for.

 

Measurements from us may come in due time. If the effects of sub-optimal USB input signal integrity on the DAC were easy to measure then designers would have eliminated it a while ago.

 

Of course the proof is in the pudding…or in these little black boxes that are flying out at a ridiculous rate.

 

I did my research and came upon no theoretical justification. Anyways, you're obviously selling enough of these that the question is irrelevant to your business, and thus I got exactly the response I expected. Oh well.

[ElviaCaprice]

I did my research and came upon no theoretical justification. Anyways, you're obviously selling enough of these that the question is irrelevant to your business, and thus I got exactly the response I expected. Oh well.

 

LOL, the Flat Earth Society persists. As expected.

[Jud]

I did my research and came upon no theoretical justification. Anyways, you're obviously selling enough of these that the question is irrelevant to your business, and thus I got exactly the response I expected. Oh well.

 

Since your research did not turn up either the multiple lengthy theoretical explanations by John Swenson on this site, nor the equally extensive theoretical explanations in the FAQs at the Uptone Audio website, either your research chops are utterly lacking or you let your expectations get in the way of finding anything.

 

You can now go to the Uptone Audio FAQs and see what you asked for, though my guess is you'll pronounce it entirely unsatisfactory. Which is fine.

[BobSherman]

Of course the proof is in the pudding…or in these little black boxes that are flying out at a ridiculous rate.

 

Yes they are...

 

[BobSherman]

I did my research and came upon no theoretical justification. Anyways, you're obviously selling enough of these that the question is irrelevant to your business, and thus I got exactly the response I expected. Oh well.

 

Maybe the cans interfere with your hearing so you are reduced to only theoretical explanations. Music is actually fun... You should try listening to some.

 

[YashN]

The biggest selling point of owning an exaSound DAC is the bitperfect transmission, right? ("USB Input: Proprietary ZeroJitter™ asynchronous USB interface with error correction on classic B–Type connector, USB cable included.") I would like to see even a theoretical explanation of how this could possibly improve sound with those DACs.

 

Bit-perfection is necessary but not sufficient.

[wisnon]

Bit-perfection is necessary but not sufficient.

 

 

People forget that a Dac is just a modulated power supply at heart.

 

The quality of the power determines the SI and most other things in Digital, which operates in the analog world. Electricity is analog…only the info scheme is digital and the interpretation process will get off kilter, the lower the power quality is at various stages.

 

It really in stone age thinking to believe that Bit perfection and or Jitter is the be-all and end all of good sound. We still have a ways to go to fully understand the digital audio domain.

[sandyk]

People forget that a Dac is just a modulated power supply at heart.

 

The quality of the power determines the SI and most other things in Digital, which operates in the analog world. Electricity is analog…only the info scheme is digital and the interpretation process will get off kilter, the lower the power quality is at various stages.

 

It really in stone age thinking to believe that Bit perfection and or Jitter is the be-all and end all of good sound. We still have a ways to go to fully understand the digital audio domain.

 

Yet most people are attempting to shut the gate after the horse has bolted ! Very few appear to be paying enough attention to the PSU area right from the start,(ripping /conversion stage) and attempt to correct all of the problems at the input to the DAC.

[Daudio]

The biggest selling point of owning an exaSound DAC is the bitperfect transmission, right?

Sounds like theoretical 'Perfect Sound Forever" to me and nothing what-so-ever to do with actual listening perceptions, observations, and impressions of the UpTone Regen device !

[zerung]

Yet most people are attempting to shut the gate after the horse has bolted ! Very few appear to be paying enough attention to the PSU area right from the start,(ripping /conversion stage) and attempt to correct all of the problems at the input to the DAC.

 

Very interesting. So you've contending that ripping or conversion provides some sound anomalies if not done right.

That may be the case as personally I find software like HQ player output better sound when they sample DSD than other in the field.

Sadly I would assume this is not possible to be measured; as few naysayers would insist on having.

[ElviaCaprice]

Why stop there, might as well go for it all and bring up the mastering and needed improvement of the ADC. But the ripping and transferring of digital data, I think that is the least, if any, of the problems concerning SQ. Best we stick to the improvement of the streaming digital and analog.

[sandyk]

Very interesting. So you've contending that ripping or conversion provides some sound anomalies if not done right.

That may be the case as personally I find software like HQ player output better sound when they sample DSD than other in the field.

Sadly I would assume this is not possible to be measured; as few naysayers would insist on having.

 

C.A. member Alfe recently posted this

Just a reminder a good quality rip is more dependant of the quality of the drive and the power supply than the software used.

Alfe is a highly experienced R&D guy, and he even designed the internal LG GGW H20L BR writer that I use for ripping my CDs.

My reports about Rips using different PSU's are well documented here in C.A. , and were verified in HiFiCritic Vol.6 No.1 as sounding different, despite having identical checksums, after a series of 6 3 minute Blind A/B/A/ listening sessions.

 

Alex

[Daudio]

C.A. member Alfe recently posted this

Alfe is a highly experienced R&D guy, and he even designed the internal LG GGW H20L BR writer that I use for ripping my CDs.

My reports about Rips using different PSU's are well documented here in C.A. , and were verified in HiFiCritic Vol.6 No.1 as sounding different, despite having identical checksums, after a series of 6 3 minute Blind A/B/A/ listening sessions.

 

Alex

 

Gentlemen,

 

Definitely way off topic ! Time for PM's, or a new thread. OK ?

[ElviaCaprice]

If it was true that digital data ripping/transferring could be effected by PSU and hard drive quality, then anytime one makes a transfer of digital data from one hard drive to another should also show a degradation of SQ. But it doesn't after numerous transfers of data. Also data downloads from the internet would also be effected, but they are certainly not. The only time I've noticed huge effects on digital sound is once it is streamed, then it takes on characteristics of analog.

[Al Jones]

I was supposed to be working today, so after installing the Regen, I planned to listen to one track just to confirm that everything was working and then put a playlist on repeat to start burn-in.

 

For the first track, I selected the last thing I had listened to yesterday, All Along the Watchtower by The Brothers and Sisters of Los Angeles from their Dylan’s Gospel CD. Short version – Everything everyone has said on CA about the Regen is true, even with a not particularly outstanding recording like this.

 

The lowered noise floor makes micro-details so much clearer, layered voices, overdubbed instruments, relative placement of singers and players in three dimensions on well-recorded material. For the first time, I could actually recognize the acoustics of the Skywalker Theater in which Doug MacLeod was recorded. (I’ve been there 3-4 times.)

 

Coming out of a blacker background, leading transients have more startle effect. Music emerges from silence with no halo of low level noise to forewarn you. The first bars of Leonard Cohen’s Almost Like the Blues and Jimi Hendrix’ version of Watchtower are good examples.

 

The purity and beauty of the 2L label’s Divertimenti sampler are elevated to a whole new level.

 

“One track” turned into 3 hours and I am fighting to resist the temptation to forget all about a deluxe beer tasting tonight that I have already paid for. This is without question the best $200 I have ever spent as an audiophile music lover.

[firedog]

I haven't gotten my "amber" yet, but the "green" is pretty amazing. I'm hearing a level of detail/clarity/space I've never heard before in tracks I've heard hundreds of times - really old stuff like the Beatles, Byrds, Hendrix.

 

I don't know exactly how to put my finger on it, but things just sound better. When something can make a track like "A Day in the Life" sound new and different to me - well, that's saying something.

 

Thanks again Alex and John.

[YashN]

Cool review, Al.

[firedog]

 

“One track” turned into 3 hours and I am fighting to resist the temptation to forget all about a deluxe beer tasting tonight that I have already paid for. This is without question the best $200 I have ever spent as an audiophile music lover.

 

 

Go to the beer tasting. The Regen will still be there when you get back. I went to a similar tasting a couple of weeks ago and had a great time.

[Superdad]

Go to the beer tasting. The Regen will still be there when you get back. I went to a similar tasting a couple of weeks ago and had a great time.

 

Better yet, bring your REGEN along to the beer tasting. You'll have a conversation piece about a little device that's bringing you much new musical pleasure--and I'll watch for orders from a bunch of drunk Danes. ;)

 

Seriously though, thanks for the nice review. Very glad you are enjoying the REGEN in your system. John and I are quite pleased that so many people, with systems that run the gamut, are all obtaining such satisfying results. It is inspiring (and enabling) us on our path towards the next product.

[reverendo]

I'm hoping for the Amber to outdo my direct ethernet input into my DAC with the Fiber Media Converter, which took that option to another level.

The problem with this solution is that my SBT has a much better user interface than the DLNA with the Cantata. The Green REGEN brought the USB input to the same level, albeit both sounding a little different with each showing different strengths. Here's hoping that the Amber will have the strengths of both. It's a more expensive route, since I wouldn't eliminate the digital transport and my USB cable is the Lightspeed, but it really is far more user friendly.

Expected delivery is Saturday, so maybe I'll be able to have some listening sessions on Sunday.