The "Official" Aurender Discussion Thread

[Len44]

^^^Jim, so very well stated and I enthusiastically agree with all your comments.  Ari is the primary reason I decided to go with Aurender, after observing is strong support of Aurender users on this site.

 

Will miss him at Aurender (as will Aurender!), but, like you, will be engaging with him and his rising services.

 

Len

[audio.bill]

Thought this post might be of interest on this thread:  Aurender and Roon

[DancingSea]

24 minutes ago, audio.bill said:

Thought this post might be of interest on this thread:  Aurender and Roon

 

Interesting.  I saw the screenshot on audioshark but couldn't find anything with that text on the web.  I wonder where it's located?  I did a google search of aurender.com for "roon" and no results were found.

[Mazza]

On the bbs chain, one of the posters claims:

 

”Aurender once claimed that they did not work with Roon because Conductor sounded better and they were unwilling to degrade the sound. The reality is that Aurender products at that time were using AMD chips that were not powerful enough to work with Roon.”

 

whilst true on the AMD chip, the other reason is not correct. Originally Aurender cited that they were not introducing Roon because it meant abandoning their own software and relinquishing all control of their product to another company and abiding by their rules and their software licence. 

[DancingSea]

40 minutes ago, Mazza said:

On the bbs chain, one of the posters claims:

 

”Aurender once claimed that they did not work with Roon because Conductor sounded better and they were unwilling to degrade the sound. The reality is that Aurender products at that time were using AMD chips that were not powerful enough to work with Roon.”

 

whilst true on the AMD chip, the other reason is not correct. Originally Aurender cited that they were not introducing Roon because it meant abandoning their own software and relinquishing all control of their product to another company and abiding by their rules and their software licence. 

 

And yet becoming a Roon endpoint in no way means Aurender must abandon Conductor.  Lumin, HiFi Rose, Auralic, BlueSound etc are all Roon endpoints and still have their own software as a free option.  Aurender was just being stubborn, but market demands have forced Roon integration upon them.

 

The Aurender AMD chips are not powerful enough to run Roon's RAAT (Roon Advanced Audio Transport), much less actually run Roon itself.  RAAT is what allows a device to become a Roon Endpoint.  The Roon Core, in most cases, still runs on someone's separate personal computer or some other consumer device like a NUC that is not purpose built for audio like an Aurender.  Roon's own Nucleus (their version of an Aurender) is just a cheap NUC in a fancy case.

 

Now that Harman/ Samsung has purchased Roon, it will interesting to see if they come up with a better Roon Core.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think we should also look at things from a different perspective. I once asked Aurender if the company would ever consider licensing its software to other manufacturers. The answer was a quick, “no.” The reasoning is what’s important to this discussion. I was told the people at Aurender like to make things and be creative coming up with solutions to problems. 
 

Using that as a guidepost, one can see why Aurender resisted implementing Roon for so long. It isn’t all about money and market forces. It’s about being satisfied in one’s work as well. 

[GJo]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think we should also look at things from a different perspective. I once asked Aurender if the company would ever consider licensing its software to other manufacturers. The answer was a quick, “no.” The reasoning is what’s important to this discussion. I was told the people at Aurender like to make things and be creative coming up with solutions to problems. 
 

Using that as a guidepost, one can see why Aurender resisted implementing Roon for so long. It isn’t all about money and market forces. It’s about being satisfied in one’s work as well. 

In the end, it’s always about money.

Follow the money and it will lead to the reason Aurender is working to partner with Roon.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, GJo said:

In the end, it’s always about money.

No. 
 

As an example, I could make much more money by covering different topics in audio. However, I have zero interest in that. I like what I do and want to enjoy it. I’ll happily forgo increased revenue and I think many people are the same (while many aren’t). 

[GJo]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

No. 
 

As an example, I could make much more money by covering different topics in audio. However, I have zero interest in that. I like what I do and want to enjoy it. I’ll happily forgo increased revenue and I think many people are the same (while many aren’t). 

I will concede it’s not always about money for some people.

 

Regarding Aurender, and most for-profit companies, I’m sticking with follow the money. Roon Ready = larger pool of potential customers = more sales. 

 

 

[DancingSea]

48 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The answer was a quick, “no.” The reasoning is what’s important to this discussion. I was told the people at Aurender like to make things and be creative coming up with solutions to problems. 
 

Using that as a guidepost, one can see why Aurender resisted implementing Roon for so long. It isn’t all about money and market forces. It’s about being satisfied in one’s work as well. 

 

I appreciate your reflections and I have no doubt in what you're sharing.  However, Aurender's adoption of Roon in no way interferes with Aurender's desire to "make things and be creative coming up with solutions."  They can still create away with Conductor, or anything else.  The Roon implementation does not hinder that creativity.

 

Therefore, especially given for how long Aurender has staved off Roon adoption, its ultimate implementation is almost certainly about customer pressure to have Roon as an alternative to Conductor rather than Aurender suddenly falling in love with Roon.

 

If we follow your line of thinking, then Aurender's new found friendliness for Roon must likely be because adding Roon is now (not before, but now) opening some new creative door for the Aurender team.  Perhaps it is.  But I can't imagine that was the straw that broke the Aurender Roon camel's back.  The primary reason, not only, but primary reason is that Roon is getting more and more popular in the high end market and has become the standard bearer for library management software.  Conductor sounds great, but it's not even competitive with Roon on the library management/ music discovery front.  Conductor is a good 5 year behind Roon.  And it's for those reasons that market forces have pushed Aurender into adopting Roon, something they obviously have never been enthusiastic about.

 

Nearly every meaningful competitor to Aurender has their own proprietary software and Roon as an option.  Aurender has been the outlier.   And it's those market forces that have ultimately caused Aurender to, smartly, bring Roon aboard.

 

The decision itself to bring Roon aboard is Aurender being creative and coming up with solutions. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

I appreciate your reflections and I have no doubt in what you're sharing.  However, Aurender's adoption of Roon in no way interferes with Aurender's desire to "make things and be creative coming up with solutions."  They can still create away with Conductor, or anything else.  The Roon implementation does not hinder that creativity.

 

Therefore, especially given for how long Aurender has staved off Roon adoption, its ultimate implementation is almost certainly about customer pressure to have Roon as an alternative to Conductor rather than Aurender suddenly falling in love with Roon.

 

If we follow your line of thinking, then Aurender's new found friendliness for Roon must likely be because adding Roon is now (not before, but now) opening some new creative door for the Aurender team.  Perhaps it is.  But I can't imagine that was the straw that broke the Aurender Roon camel's back.  The primary reason, not only, but primary reason is that Roon is getting more and more popular in the high end market and has become the standard bearer for library management software.  Conductor sounds great, but it's not even competitive with Roon on the library management/ music discovery front.  Conductor is a good 5 year behind Roon.  And it's for those reasons that market forces have pushed Aurender into adopting Roon, something they obviously have never been enthusiastic about.

 

Nearly every meaningful competitor to Aurender has their own proprietary software and Roon as an option.  Aurender has been the outlier.   And it's those market forces that have ultimately caused Aurender to, smartly, bring Roon aboard.

 

The decision itself to bring Roon aboard is Aurender being creative and coming up with solutions. 

No. I’m just giving people a little perspective that they likely didn’t have. Those who like to create often don’t want to use other peoples’ creations. It’s unsatisfying. That’s all. 

[DancingSea]

8 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

No. I’m just giving people a little perspective that they likely didn’t have. Those who like to create often don’t want to use other peoples’ creations. It’s unsatisfying. That’s all. 

Yes, which is precisely why the decision to add Roon was born out of financial realities rather than the need to be creative.  The Aurender's team was creative prior to Roon, and will remain creative after Roon's integration.  

 

Aurender has admirably remained true to their vision of low power processors and undemanding software, all in the service of audio quality.

 

Therefore the integration of Roon is likely more out of resignation rather than creative inspiration.  They rightfully realized the financial health of the company is enhanced by the Roon option.

 

All of which in no way interferes with their creative flow!

 

The Roon software engineers have simply come up with a significantly better library management product than Conductor will likely ever be.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.  And that's the bottomline.  

 

Creativity & Conductor still intact and unhindered ;)

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

Yes, which is precisely why the decision to add Roon was born out of financial realities rather than the need to be creative.  The Aurender's team was creative prior to Roon, and will remain creative after Roon's integration.  

 

Aurender has admirably remained true to their vision of low power processors and undemanding software, all in the service of audio quality.

 

Therefore the integration of Roon is likely more out of resignation rather than creative inspiration.  They rightfully realized the financial health of the company is enhanced by the Roon option.

 

All of which in no way interferes with their creative flow!

 

The Roon software engineers have simply come up with a significantly better library management product than Conductor will likely ever be.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.  And that's the bottomline.  

 

Creativity & Conductor still intact and unhindered ;)

I guess we’ll just disagree on this one. No worries. 

[DancingSea]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I guess we’ll just disagree on this one. No worries. 

 

We're actually not disagreeing.  But rather talking about two different aspects.

 

I'm agreeing with you about Aurender's desire for creativity and then adding observations about the marketplace.  There's no conflict between the two.  Just two different parts of a complex issue.

[GJo]

25 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

I appreciate your reflections and I have no doubt in what you're sharing.  However, Aurender's adoption of Roon in no way interferes with Aurender's desire to "make things and be creative coming up with solutions."  They can still create away with Conductor, or anything else.  The Roon implementation does not hinder that creativity.

 

Therefore, especially given for how long Aurender has staved off Roon adoption, its ultimate implementation is almost certainly about customer pressure to have Roon as an alternative to Conductor rather than Aurender suddenly falling in love with Roon.

 

If we follow your line of thinking, then Aurender's new found friendliness for Roon must likely be because adding Roon is now (not before, but now) opening some new creative door for the Aurender team.  Perhaps it is.  But I can't imagine that was the straw that broke the Aurender Roon camel's back.  The primary reason, not only, but primary reason is that Roon is getting more and more popular in the high end market and has become the standard bearer for library management software.  Conductor sounds great, but it's not even competitive with Roon on the library management/ music discovery front.  Conductor is a good 5 year behind Roon.  And it's for those reasons that market forces have pushed Aurender into adopting Roon, something they obviously have never been enthusiastic about.

 

Nearly every meaningful competitor to Aurender has their own proprietary software and Roon as an option.  Aurender has been the outlier.   And it's those market forces that have ultimately caused Aurender to, smartly, bring Roon aboard.

 

The decision itself to bring Roon aboard is Aurender being creative and coming up with solutions. 

Diplomatic and inclusive reply. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

We're actually not disagreeing.  But rather talking about two different aspects.

 

I'm agreeing with you about Aurender's desire for creativity and then adding observations about the marketplace.  There's no conflict between the two.  Just two different parts of a complex issue.

No. I said nothing about why Aurender is including Roon. I also don’t believe Aurender would ever want an interface just like Roon. But that’s another story. 
 

Your comments are all about why you think Aurender is implementing Roon. I never said anything about that. I just provided perspective as to why the company does some of the things it does, irrespective of Roon. 

[DancingSea]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

No. I said nothing about why Aurender is including Roon

 

Well, you wrote:

"The reasoning is what’s important to this discussion. I was told the people at Aurender like to make things and be creative coming up with solutions to problems. 
 

Using that as a guidepost, one can see why Aurender resisted implementing Roon for so long. It isn’t all about money and market forces. It’s about being satisfied in one’s work as well. "

 

Then GJo wrote:

"in the end, it’s always about money.

Follow the money and it will lead to the reason Aurender is working to partner with Roon."

 

To which you responded:

 

"No"

 

 

It's reasonable to conclude from what you've written that you are taking the position that something other than market forces are the primary motivation for Aurender adopting Roon.

 

If that's not what you're saying, then ok, feel free to clarify your opinion.

 

For me,  it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to conclude that market forces are certainly a significant reason why Aurender has adopted Roon.  Not the only reason, but a significant one.  

 

The desire for creative independence may very well be a reason why Aurender resisted assimilation, but it's hard cash that has motivated them to relent.

 

Otherwise we'd have to come up with a logistical flow that explains how adopting Roon is aligned with their need for creative independence 🤗

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Well, you wrote:

"The reasoning is what’s important to this discussion. I was told the people at Aurender like to make things and be creative coming up with solutions to problems. 
 

Using that as a guidepost, one can see why Aurender resisted implementing Roon for so long. It isn’t all about money and market forces. It’s about being satisfied in one’s work as well. "

 

Then GJo wrote:

"in the end, it’s always about money.

Follow the money and it will lead to the reason Aurender is working to partner with Roon."

 

To which you responded:

 

"No"

 

 

It's reasonable to conclude from what you've written that you are taking the position that something other than market forces are the primary motivation for Aurender adopting Roon.

 

If that's not what you're saying, then ok, feel free to clarify your opinion.

 

For me,  it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to conclude that market forces are certainly a significant reason why Aurender has adopted Roon.  Not the only reason, but a significant one.  

 

The desire for creative independence may very well be a reason why Aurender resisted assimilation, but it's hard cash that has motivated them to relent.

 

Otherwise we'd have to come up with a logistical flow that explains how adopting Roon is aligned with their need for creative independence 🤗

 

I don’t get you guys. 
 

All I did was offer some background perspective on the company and the people. 
 

 

11 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

It's reasonable to conclude from what you've written that you are taking the position that something other than market forces are the primary motivation for Aurender adopting Roon.

 

 

With all due respect, NO :~)

 

I'm fully capable of writing my own conclusions. If I meant that I would’ve said that. 
 

 

13 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

For me,  it doesn't take a Harvard MBA to conclude that market forces are certainly a significant reason why Aurender has adopted Roon.  Not the only reason, but a significant one.  

 

I don’t disagree with you, but that isn’t really what I was talking about. Which is why I kept saying no in my responses. 

 

You guys are drawing conclusions and making educated guesses, like everyone does. Nothing wrong with that, but that isn’t where my head was at. 
 

 

[DancingSea]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm fully capable of writing my own conclusions. If I meant that I would’ve said that. 

 

When GJo wrote:

"in the end, it’s always about money. Follow the money and it will lead to the reason Aurender is working to partner with Roon." and you responded "no",  it's reasonable to conclude, at least by the rules of the english language, that you have expressed a very clear opinion.  We're not making anything up, it's your words.

 

Of course, as invited, you're welcome to clarify your opinion.

 

Your background information of why Aurender resisted Roon for so long was very interesting.  What do you believe are the primary reasons why Aurender implemented Roon?  Not resisted, but implemented?

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

When GJo wrote:

"in the end, it’s always about money. Follow the money and it will lead to the reason Aurender is working to partner with Roon." and you responded "no",  it's reasonable to conclude, at least by the rules of the english language, that you have expressed a very clear opinion.  We're not making anything up, it's your words

Then he agreed with me that it isn’t always about money, even if he believes it is in this case. 

 

8 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

Your background information of why Aurender resisted Roon for so long was very interesting.  What do you believe are the primary reasons why Aurender implemented Roon?  Not resisted, but implemented?

Thank you for stating that’s what my information was about. The resistance to things not created by them and of their own making. 
 

I can only speculate on reasons for Aurender implementing Roon. I haven’t asked the team this specific question. However, people should realize there are many forces at work with a global company, involving customers, dealers, distributors, etc… We can all speculate, which is fun sometimes, but it may not be accurate. 
 

For example, a large electronics manufacturer put a Toslink input on a product solely because one audio personality wanted it and this would enable him to talk about the product without complaining about the lack of such input. The truth is often stranger than fiction. 

 

By the way, I’m reading a book by Gerry Spence, in between posts. Your comments are very similar to his deposition questioning of a doctor on the witness stand. I understand it in his case, but not here. 

[GJo]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

For example, a large electronics manufacturer put a Toslink input on a product solely because one audio personality wanted it and this would enable him to talk about the product without complaining about the lack of such input. The truth is often stranger than fiction. 

The manufacturer recognized that positive comments from the audio influencer would likely result in more sales of their product. Adding a toslink input to reduce the risk of a negative comment was a relatively small price to pay for higher net return. 
 

A wonderful example of following the money. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, GJo said:

The manufacturer recognized that positive comments from the audio influencer would likely result in more sales of their product. Adding a toslink input was a relatively small price to pay for higher net return. 
 

A wonderful example of following the money. 

How did I know your hammer would strike what you thought was a nail. 

[agladstone]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:39 PM, DancingSea said:

Not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread before, but I contacted Aurender Support today and asked about Ari.  Aurender said he is no longer with the company.  That's a significant loss for Aurender as Ari went far beyond what one would expect - perhaps even imagine - customer service could be.

Agreed!! @amargolis was fantastic in every way imaginable! Definitely sad to hear this and he will be missed! 
Thank you Ari for all of your incredible service and support over the years! 
I wish you the best of luck and success in your next and future endeavors! 

[DancingSea]

39 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Then he agreed with me that it isn’t always about money, even if he believes it is in this case. 

 

Thank you for stating that’s what my information was about. The resistance to things not created by them and of their own making. 
 

I can only speculate on reasons for Aurender implementing Roon. I haven’t asked the team this specific question. However, people should realize there are many forces at work with a global company, involving customers, dealers, distributors, etc… We can all speculate, which is fun sometimes, but it may not be accurate. 
 

For example, a large electronics manufacturer put a Toslink input on a product solely because one audio personality wanted it and this would enable him to talk about the product without complaining about the lack of such input. The truth is often stranger than fiction. 

 

By the way, I’m reading a book by Gerry Spence, in between posts. Your comments are very similar to his deposition questioning of a doctor on the witness stand. I understand it in his case, but not here. 

 

Ultimately you, me and GJo are essentially in agreement.  There was a misunderstanding about what you were trying to say in terms of why Aurender resisted vs why they acquiesced , but in the end we all agree that Aurender is a team dedicated to creative pursuits and market forces, among other things, brought about the need to adopt Roon.

 

Once again, we're all just one big happy Audiophile Style family 😇

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, DancingSea said:

 

Ultimately you, me and GJo are essentially in agreement.  There was a misunderstanding about what you were trying to say in terms of why Aurender resisted vs why they acquiesced , but in the end we all agree that Aurender is a team dedicated to creative pursuits and market forces, among other things, brought about the need to adopt Roon.

 

Once again, we're all just one big happy Audiophile Style family 😇

We can be passionate about this stuff sometimes 🙂