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Multiroom DLNA is dead. Get over it Wap!


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I asked the JRiver guru "Bob" master of the JRiver universe, will their new JRiver ID mini computer do multiroom and he said basically no.

 

Well not properly anyway.

 

And why is that?

 

well DLNA can not (in it's current "Mk 1.5" state or whatever it is) do sync.

 

You can read it his reply in this thread:

 

JRiver Id Questions?

 

I repeat DLNA is a dog's breakfast for multiroom. Because in it's current form it will not sync properly.

 

It can't do proper sync, because this is NOT written into the protocol/alliance yet!

 

So there you have it

 

LOL!

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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LOL I've got Sonos

 

Had it for years.

 

Just resigned in protest from their forum because they refuse to look after us with a high quality player, and various Music server compatibilities. Specifically Spotify. :)

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Fed up with Sonos arrogant attitude to all this..

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Somehow, I don't think that getting over It is part of your DNA Wap... or should I say, your DLNA...!

haha No.. Your 100% correct Dummy... or should that be dummy spit!

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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I am holding out for a newer NAD M50 which will lose the optical drive and get cheaper, and then I will move on to a Bluesound ecosystem. Not a day goes by that I don't mourn the loss of squeezebox.

Roon ->UltraRendu + CI Audio 7v LPS-> Kii Control -> Kii Three

Roon->BMC UltraDAC->Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open

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^ I'm the same.

 

Yes. The Bluesound cards for some of the original and soon to be released NAD gear looks a treat. I agree. Trouble is DSD. It's not supported.

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Unless you are willing to forgo DSD and spend the cash needed for an all Linn system it does appear you are, as they say, SOL. Tough pill to swallow but you could start your own business and create one if its really sticking in your craw.

 

Just as an aside I have zero clients that ask me for what you are looking for, even ones with 10k-20k systems. Not ever one.

David

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There's still the option of building something on the LMS infrastructure (LMS server and Squeezelite).

 

Full support for everything short of multi-channel.

 

A few Daphile installs perhaps?

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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I asked the JRiver guru "Bob" master of the JRiver universe, will their new JRiver ID mini computer do multiroom and he said basically no.

 

Well not properly anyway.

 

And why is that?

 

well DLNA can not (in it's current "Mk 1.5" state or whatever it is) do sync.

 

You can read it his reply in this thread:

 

JRiver Id Questions?

 

I repeat DLNA is a dog's breakfast for multiroom. Because in it's current form it will not sync properly.

 

It can't do proper sync, because this is NOT written into the protocol/alliance yet!

 

So there you have it

 

LOL!

Very easy to do, Wap me old mate, especially as the two are often mentioned in the same breath, but it's important not to mix up UPnP with DLNA, when you are referring to their respective specs.

 

DLNA (currently version 1.5) has never referred to multiroom sync, AFAIK, so it's safe to assume that it doesn't support it. I believe the spec that Jiver's 'Bob' was most likely referring to the current UPnP spec, in that link of yours, rather than DLNA. Version 2 of the UPnP AV Architecture document does actually specify a mechanism for mutiroom synchronisation. However, this is old news, as it's not even part of any 'proposed version 2 spec' (of UPnP), as Bob suggests. That UPnP AV Architecture:2 document is actually part of the current UPnP 1.0 spec, published way back in 2010!

 

However, it's yet to be implemented by anyone, since it requires all of the three major UPnP components, ie, server, renderer & control point, to support it. Given the time it took before we finally got the mechanism (at least from the more decent UPnP device producers) for standard UPnP gapless playback, which requires the support of just 2 of the components (renderer & control point), you have you be quite an optimist if you've any hope of standard UPnP multiroom sync supportin the near future. Having said that, no technical reason why JRiver can't be the first to take it on themselves, given that JMC has a built-in UPnP server, renderer & control point.

 

Hang on a minute. Didn't we discuss all of this before in one of your old threads? Might be worth reviving:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/holy-multiroom-hirez-direct-stream-digital-streaming-batman-20709/index3.html#post326376

 

Hope the info's saved yourself from chasing your tail a bit there, Wap :)

 

John

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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There's still the option of building something on the LMS infrastructure (LMS server and Squeezelite).

 

Full support for everything short of multi-channel.

 

A few Daphile installs perhaps?

 

Eloise

Certainly makes sense to use something that's currently available.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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I am holding out for a newer NAD M50 which will lose the optical drive and get cheaper, and then I will move on to a Bluesound ecosystem. Not a day goes by that I don't mourn the loss of squeezebox.

 

Loss? My SBT still works fine, and there is a Spotify app for it. Waiting for Tidal.

Office: MacBook Pro - Audirvana Plus - Resonessence Concero - Cavailli Liquid Carbon - Sennheiser HD 800.

Travel/Portable: iPhone 7 or iPad Pro - AudioQuest Dragonfly Red - Audeze SINE or Noble Savant

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However, it's yet to be implemented by anyone,

 

Ok. Point taken. Not dead. Quite yet. But more like an eternal zombie.. never to be actually dead *and* buried..

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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There's still the option of building something on the LMS infrastructure (LMS server and Squeezelite).

 

Full support for everything short of multi-channel.

 

A few Daphile installs perhaps?

 

Eloise

 

Sure.

 

This is about as close as I've seen http://www.video-storm.com/products.asp?cat=12 (the netplay expansion board is based on LMS).. but needs a full Control4/Savant etc set up work.. and not sure about DSD... also "dealer" only and looks *very* "proprietry"..

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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Loss? My SBT still works fine, and there is a Spotify app for it.

 

This Spotify "Connect" by any chance?

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

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I am holding out for a newer NAD M50 which will lose the optical drive and get cheaper, and then I will move on to a Bluesound ecosystem. Not a day goes by that I don't mourn the loss of squeezebox.

 

Amen - Logitech could easily have knocked Sonos out of the throne with Squeezebox, but they chose not to. What a waste...

 

-Paul

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I'm still using AirPlay because it does lossless 16/44 for cheap and multi-room is perfectly in sync.

The output is Toslink so the cheap hardware doesn't matter, though the analog output is not terrible either.

One thing I really like that AirPlay does, which no other system does, is that anyone can play to a room directly from their phones/tablets without any special apps running.

 

AirPlay is a bit of a pain once you get out of Apple's ecosystem and want to start using it with players like JRiver, but every other system seems to be at that level of complexity by default.

 

 

I'm not aware of anything else which does multi-room better yet - systems like Sonos are still limited to 16/44, and don't support direct playback from your devices.

The old Squeezebox hardware was good, but I don't like the idea of buying into a "dead" system.

 

I wish that Apple would update the spec to support high res audio and open it up so that other apps can play directly to them rather than routing everything through AirFoil. DLNA and their alternatives have never worked well for me.

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Amen - Logitech could easily have knocked Sonos out of the throne with Squeezebox, but they chose not to. What a waste...

 

-Paul

 

Seriously? I had more customers have trouble with Squeezebox than anything else I sold combined. How about the Duet? Great product, NOT. No contest. Sonos just flat out works and ALWAYS works. I don't think I have ever had a product with so much positive feedback as Sonos.

David

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Seriously? I had more customers have trouble with Squeezebox than anything else I sold combined. How about the Duet? Great product, NOT. No contest. Sonos just flat out works and ALWAYS works. I don't think I have ever had a product with so much positive feedback as Sonos.

 

I should have said the SBTouch , Transporter, and the LMS software. Thase devices were pretty much dead simple and bulletproof, and sounded very very good indeed. The Duet - not so much.

 

Sonos is very good too of course, but as reliable as a SBTouch?

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I should have said the SBTouch , Transporter, and the LMS software. Thase devices were pretty much dead simple and bulletproof, and sounded very very good indeed. The Duet - not so much.

Sonos is very good too of course, but as reliable as a SBTouch?

I've never heard of any complaints about reliability from Sonos - only praise for how robust its mesh networking is, and how people using it for whole-house audio have never had to deal with drop-outs which are common with other systems. (often from people that upgraded from Squeezebox/AirPlay)

 

There are certainly complaints from audiophiles who want something more than 16/44, and people who hate the Sonos software, but reliability does not seem to be an issue.

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I've never heard of any complaints about reliability from Sonos - only praise for how robust its mesh networking is, and how people using it for whole-house audio have never had to deal with drop-outs which are common with other systems. (often from people that upgraded from Squeezebox/AirPlay)

 

There are certainly complaints from audiophiles who want something more than 16/44, and people who hate the Sonos software, but reliability does not seem to be an issue.

 

Yep. It really depends a whole lot more on what you put at the other end of their players, especially the Connect, as to how it sounds. I've got some houses that sound flat out awesome by just about any standard. And it always works. Always.

 

Their app could still use some work. They are on it believe me. I think this year will see some surprises from them.

David

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