LAN Input DACs

[Paul R]

I have a stupid question, about audio over IP in general : what is the benefit over a simple sound card? Am I missing something?

 

You are taking sound out of a PC, sending it through ethernet, then converting it back to a digital audio signal.what is the point?

 

Well, it seems counter intuitive, but what it does is isolate the data (the music is just data at this point) both in spatial and in temporal terms. The end point, be that a computer or a "network connected DAC" (which is really a computer with a DAC attached to it...) has less work to do, is immune to power supply noise from the host computer, and of course, ethernet cards all pretty much have DMA so there is little that the processor has to do.

 

Meaning the processor can be slower and use less power, which in general, makes things sound better. (In general, there are exceptions!)

 

As a side benefit, now the server computer can be big and bulked up, noisy with fans and humming drives if you want. You won't hear it shut away in an upstairs closet. The player part just plays the music, blissfully quiet with no noise.

 

-Paul

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Thanks for your reply

 

Seems quite similar to what network streamers are doing.

[jon2020]

Well, it seems counter intuitive, but what it does is isolate the data (the music is just data at this point) both in spatial and in temporal terms. The end point, be that a computer or a "network connected DAC" (which is really a computer with a DAC attached to it...) has less work to do, is immune to power supply noise from the host computer, and of course, ethernet cards all pretty much have DMA so there is little that the processor has to do.

 

Meaning the processor can be slower and use less power, which in general, makes things sound better. (In general, there are exceptions!)

 

As a side benefit, now the server computer can be big and bulked up, noisy with fans and humming drives if you want. You won't hear it shut away in an upstairs closet. The player part just plays the music, blissfully quiet with no noise.

 

-Paul

 

Sorry, Paul. I am new to this and I have another stupid question.

 

Is a LAN input always superior to USB input when properly implemented?

 

Thanks in advance. Jon.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Sorry, Paul. I am new to this and I have another stupid question.

 

Is a LAN input always superior to USB input when properly implemented?

 

Thanks in advance. Jon.

Not Paul here, but will give you my answer. Nothing is always superior to anything else. Period.

[jon2020]

Not Paul here, but will give you my answer. Nothing is always superior to anything else. Period.

 

Many thanks, Chris.

[Paul R]

Sorry, Paul. I am new to this and I have another stupid question.

 

Is a LAN input always superior to USB input when properly implemented?

 

Thanks in advance. Jon.

 

Hi John - no, of course not. USB can sound as good, worse, or lots getter than a network inout, depending upon equipment, software, and personal preference. Do not over worry about network or USB.

[jon2020]

Thanks, Paul.

Not too worried really. Just wondering whether I should try my dac's LAN input just because it is there and whether it is worth the extra expense of a good LAN cable.

[tranz]

It is all in the implementation. Good LAN cable is dead cheap. Bluejeanscable tests them. Well worth trying.

[jon2020]

It is all in the implementation. Good LAN cable is dead cheap. Bluejeanscable tests them. Well worth trying.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

Unfortunately, this is not available in my locality.

Also, my router is "half a mile" away from my rig.

[wklie]

Is a LAN input always superior to USB input when properly implemented?

 

See this product description for an explanation of why network implementation may be superior to typical USB cable/implementation (typical here meaning no special hardware to isolate the USB noise, etc.):

 

The LANRover | PS Audio

[MikeJazz]

Thanks, Paul.

Not too worried really. Just wondering whether I should try my dac's LAN input just because it is there and whether it is worth the extra expense of a good LAN cable.

 

I can see you have the new Esoteric N-05. Why don't you try that input and let us know?

[jon2020]

See this product description for an explanation of why network implementation may be superior to typical USB cable/implementation (typical here meaning no special hardware to isolate the USB noise, etc.):

 

The LANRover | PS Audio

 

I have read this and asked a question under Comments. Very interesting. So you need 2 boxes of the LANRover connected by a short LAN cable with USB from the computer at one end and USB to the dac at the other. This would be the ideal solution for me if I don't want to run a 100 foot LAN cable from where my router is.

Will wait for it to be launched.

[jon2020]

I can see you have the new Esoteric N-05. Why don't you try that input and let us know?

 

See my post above.

[MikeJazz]

I have read this and asked a question under Comments. Very interesting. So you need 2 boxes of the LANRover connected by a short LAN cable with USB from the computer at one end and USB to the dac at the other. This would be the ideal solution for me if I don't want to run a 100 foot LAN cable from where my router is.

Will wait for it to be launched.

 

Do you stream from you NAS or do you have all music on the computer connected to the N-05?

[Paul R]

Thanks for the heads up.

Unfortunately, this is not available in my locality.

Also, my router is "half a mile" away from my rig.

 

Now you have really got my curiousity going? Half a mile? Where are you, in a fire watch tower?

 

Obviously, if you have to run a kilometer of cable to get in the network, your only practical choice is optical fibre. So I guess you mean you are on a wireless link to a tower somewhere?

[jon2020]

Do you stream from you NAS or do you have all music on the computer connected to the N-05?

 

No NAS, all from the computer.

[jon2020]

Now you have really got my curiousity going? Half a mile? Where are you, in a fire watch tower?

 

Obviously, if you have to run a kilometer of cable to get in the network, your only practical choice is optical fibre. So I guess you mean you are on a wireless link to a tower somewhere?

 

100 feet man, not 1 km.

[Paul R]

100 feet man, not 1 km.

 

(grin)

 

Well, in that case, I would suggest that much of the benefit of a network connection can be realized in several ways.

 

Doe the N-05 have digital inputs? If so, that would be a likely target for me. If not, then I would definitely look at something like a Mac Mini, a NUC, a NAA, or a C.A.P.S. machine that reads the files from your Windows PC music server. At that point, you an attach whatever DAC you choose to the mini PC, and Bob's your uncle.

 

In terms of network, I would avoid anything that says DLNA on it, and look for something that that supports either Airplay, Roon, JRiver, or something along those lines. In terms of the DAC connection, unless you want to spend enough on this DAC to rival what you already have, then USB connections will probably sound just perfect.

 

-Paul

[tranz]

Thanks for the heads up.

Unfortunately, this is not available in my locality.

Also, my router is "half a mile" away from my rig.

 

They ship anywhere in the world...

 

Optical LAN is another thing to look into. Some very good threads on that.

[Albrecht]

I have read this and asked a question under Comments. Very interesting. So you need 2 boxes of the LANRover connected by a short LAN cable with USB from the computer at one end and USB to the dac at the other. This would be the ideal solution for me if I don't want to run a 100 foot LAN cable from where my router is.

Will wait for it to be launched.

 

These will be made by ICron for PSAudio and the retail price of the ICRON is $457 & the PS Audio will be $599. The PS Audio will have "special audio elements" built into it by ICRON. ICRON also OEMs for STarTech.

 

They are USB extenders and they've been around for about 5 years or so.

 

Cheers,

[Cebolla]

In terms of network, I would avoid anything that says DLNA on it, and look for something that that supports either Airplay, Roon, JRiver, or something along those lines. In terms of the DAC connection, unless you want to spend enough on this DAC to rival what you already have, then USB connections will probably sound just perfect

Eh? JRiver does 'say DLNA on it'. JRiver uses standard UPnP/DLNA for its network audio file streaming.

 

Going by what's already been mentioned on the Esoteric N-05 thread, it appears to be an OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) network streamer, which isn't supported by JRiver Media Center's built-in control point (JMC's control point is standard UPnP/DLNA only):

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/esoteric-n-05-a-28697/

However, it's possible that the N-05 may also support standard UPnP streaming, so would be able to be controlled by JRiver over the network in that case.

 

I've seen no mention of the N-05 supporting AirPlay nor if it can be used on the network as a Roon End Point.

[Cebolla]

Thanks for your reply

 

Seems quite similar to what network streamers are doing.

One man's LAN input DAC is possibly another man's network streamer (with built-in DAC). May be what needs to specified is what network device the audio file player is running on, ie, is it on the same network device that contains the DAC itself (eg UPnP or OpenHome network audio file streaming) or is it on the networked (source) computer (eg AE67, HQ Player/NAA, Roon Advanced Audio Transport, etc)?

[jon2020]

Thanks, all for your input.

 

The gist of all this is that the N-05's network performance can only be assessed after I have got a 100 foot LAN cable to run from my router and an iPad to run the app which is only iOS based for now. Android users like me need to wait a while longer.

 

I guess I can wait for someone to compare and report the LAN vs usb inputs of the N-05 before I decide to have my music served up via LAN.

 

At the moment, I am truly pleased with the N-05's usb input via the iFi usb 3.0. With this route, the N-05 is a fabulous upgrade over my old K-01 spinning discs in its transport, even as the N-05 "merely" has the chip of the current K-05X.

 

Coming back to the title of this thread, the question remains as to how good the N-05 will be as a LAN input dac.

 

Jon.

[Paul R]

Eh? JRiver does 'say DLNA on it'. JRiver uses standard UPnP/DLNA for its network audio file streaming.

 

Eh - my bad. I don't usually allow JRiver to stream, and the endpoints usually cannot handle gapless. I just load a copy of JRiver on the NUC or whatever, and then mount the media files over the network. Works fine, pseudo-streaming I guess.

 

Going by what's already been mentioned on the Esoteric N-05 thread, it appears to be an OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) network streamer, which isn't supported by JRiver Media Center's built-in control point (JMC's control point is standard UPnP/DLNA only):

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/esoteric-n-05-a-28697/

However, it's possible that the N-05 may also support standard UPnP streaming, so would be able to be controlled by JRiver over the network in that case.

 

I've seen no mention of the N-05 supporting AirPlay nor if it can be used on the network as a Roon End Point.

 

All true, which is why I would front it with a small computer myself. I am not sure if the N-05 has an asynch USB input though.

 

-Paul

[jon2020]

 

All true, which is why I would front it with a small computer myself. I am not sure if the N-05 has an asynch USB input though.

 

-Paul

 

Paul, the N-05's usb input is asynchronous.