tranz Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Some of the ones mentioned were Focusrite (RedNet) MSB with its Renderer module, Naim, Linn. Link to comment
reverendo Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Some of the ones mentioned were Focusrite (RedNet) MSB with its Renderer module, Naim, Linn. thank you very much @tranz will look at the Focusrite and the MSB. I know the Naim and prefer mine by leaps and bounds and have the impression that the Linn might not be what I'm looking for. The MSB has some of the things I'm looking for, but the renderer input is pretty pricey. The DAC without it costs as much as my DAC new, which makes me wonder if it would really be an upgrade. LDMS Minix Server>Lampizator TRP w/ VC>Gryphon Diablo>Heil Kithara Cables: Douglas Cables 'Mirage'', (Power); Douglas Cables 'Mirage' (XLR); Douglas Cables "GLIA" (speaker cables & jumper); FTA Callisto (USB) Accessories: Furutech GTX-D (G) with cover, MIT Z Duplex Super; Equitech Balanced Power, Sistrum (for Diablo & TRP) Link to comment
tranz Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi reverendo, Curious what DAC you currently use that has a LAN input? Link to comment
Superdad Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi reverendo, Curious what DAC you currently use that has a LAN input? He has the Resolution Audio Cantata Music Center. It is a wonderful PCM1704K design by the talented and hard working Jeff Kalt. (Full disclosure: I consider him a friend even though we have not seen each other in years.) UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Ok, so I just stumbled upon this thread since I am starting to look around for DACs with ethernet input, be they DLNA or not..... So, could someone be so kind and point me in the right direction without me having to go through the whole thread at the moment? Andre: While not an all-in-one, the Sonore Signature Rendu (another product with lots of Swenson innovation) is Ethernet in, I2S or S/PDIF out. Maybe you can fall for a DAC with an LVDS I2S input. I'm not sure why your eye is wandering though. Your well-executed Cantata with multiple PS and PCM1704K and Ethernet already built in is a tough act to beat. Maybe feed it whatever its max rate is with HQ Player set with Poly-sinc-* filters. That's the first thing I'd try. Oh wait, can't use HQ Player with DLNA. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Serge_S Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 thank you very much @tranz will look at the Focusrite and the MSB. I know the Naim and prefer mine by leaps and bounds and have the impression that the Linn might not be what I'm looking for. The MSB has some of the things I'm looking for, but the renderer input is pretty pricey. The DAC without it costs as much as my DAC new, which makes me wonder if it would really be an upgrade. Focusrite with Dante networking is a multi-channel pro-audio interface that consists of multiple boxes without handy knobs and dials. There’s also 2-channel Burl B2 Bomber DAC that integrated Dante in their new version. Both Burl and Focusrite are considered hi-end by Gearslutz pro audio forum folks with Burl reminding people of analog tape. But, these guys have different criteria when choosing gear. Couple of people on this site reviewed Burl few years back and came to diametrically opposite conclusions. Link to comment
reverendo Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Andre:While not an all-in-one, the Sonore Signature Rendu (another product with lots of Swenson innovation) is Ethernet in, I2S or S/PDIF out. Maybe you can fall for a DAC with an LVDS I2S input. I'm not sure why your eye is wandering though. Your well-executed Cantata with multiple PS and PCM1704K and Ethernet already built in is a tough act to beat. Maybe feed it whatever its max rate is with HQ Player set with Poly-sinc-* filters. That's the first thing I'd try. Oh wait, can't use HQ Player with DLNA. Hi Alex, It seems that we keep meeting in different threads. Btw, I was also part of a humongous thread on pinkfish where John interacted heavily discussing his DAC. I'm starting to look around since I had a very wonderful encounter with Dave from Raven Audio and heard the benefits of excellent tubes without the cons that I normally associate with them. Since I tend to be minimalist and am on a budget I don't want to add another piece of gear with all the cost and variables of cables, but I do feel that a good tube pre might give me more natural texture and timbre without losing utter neutrality. Although I love my DAC very much for both sound and versatility, I know that there are better ones out there, albeit quite a bit more costly, and the idea of a tube DAC with an excellent pre crossed my mind. ☺ LDMS Minix Server>Lampizator TRP w/ VC>Gryphon Diablo>Heil Kithara Cables: Douglas Cables 'Mirage'', (Power); Douglas Cables 'Mirage' (XLR); Douglas Cables "GLIA" (speaker cables & jumper); FTA Callisto (USB) Accessories: Furutech GTX-D (G) with cover, MIT Z Duplex Super; Equitech Balanced Power, Sistrum (for Diablo & TRP) Link to comment
reverendo Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Focusrite with Dante networking is a multi-channel pro-audio interface that consists of multiple boxes without handy knobs and dials. There’s also 2-channel Burl B2 Bomber DAC that integrated Dante in their new version. Both Burl and Focusrite are considered hi-end by Gearslutz pro audio forum folks with Burl reminding people of analog tape. But, these guys have different criteria when choosing gear. Couple of people on this site reviewed Burl few years back and came to diametrically opposite conclusions. Thanks, Serge. Will have a look at the Burl. LDMS Minix Server>Lampizator TRP w/ VC>Gryphon Diablo>Heil Kithara Cables: Douglas Cables 'Mirage'', (Power); Douglas Cables 'Mirage' (XLR); Douglas Cables "GLIA" (speaker cables & jumper); FTA Callisto (USB) Accessories: Furutech GTX-D (G) with cover, MIT Z Duplex Super; Equitech Balanced Power, Sistrum (for Diablo & TRP) Link to comment
tranz Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 thank you very much @tranzwill look at the Focusrite and the MSB. I know the Naim and prefer mine by leaps and bounds and have the impression that the Linn might not be what I'm looking for. The MSB has some of the things I'm looking for, but the renderer input is pretty pricey. The DAC without it costs as much as my DAC new, which makes me wonder if it would really be an upgrade. At these levels only a home audition on your own setup will tell you that. Looking at the pic that Superdad posted of your DAC, I see all the toroids sitting next to the pcb and chips. The one thing that for me has always made a difference is having the power supplies in a separate box with EMI shielding and space in between the sensitive bits. Perhaps something to try to hear whether it makes a difference to you and your setup is a 2 box solution. Naim does not sound as good an MSB DAC in my experience. Linn was always scrapped off my list due to their use of switching power supplies. There are also the Pioneer and Sony streamer/DAC boxes and McIntosh MB100, but I have not tried those. Cheers Link to comment
tranz Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 NADAC by Merging Technologies might be a good choice for this. Can't wait to audition this at home. http://nadac.merging.com Link to comment
bmoura Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 NADAC by Merging Technologies might be a good choice for this. Can't wait to audition this at home. NADAC | HOME If you are talking networked audio, the NADAC would be right up that alley. Ethernet connectivity and no USB. Link to comment
baddog Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If you are talking networked audio, the NADAC would be right up that alley. Ethernet connectivity and no USB. Cool! Just like the MSB Analog DAC. Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs Link to comment
bibo01 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Cool! Just like the MSB Analog DAC. The Ethernet Rendered for MSB Analog DAC and NADAC are two different animals. The first one is a streamer and it existed before on the market. The NADAC has a proprietary protocol over Ethernet that allows PC/Mac to send signal to the DAC like if it was a direct USB connection. How curious are you? Link to comment
baddog Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The Ethernet Rendered for MSB Analog DAC and NADAC are two different animals.The first one is a streamer and it existed before on the market. The NADAC has a proprietary protocol over Ethernet that allows PC/Mac to send signal to the DAC like if it was a direct USB connection. I had no idea, thanks for sharing that information! So do they provide drivers or other software for PC or Mac users? So then it is not a renderer which would work in a Minimserver on a NAS for your music library and a control point such as Linn Lazoo or Auralic Lightning DS on an iPad? In other words without a Mac or PC? Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs Link to comment
tranz Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Cool! Just like the MSB Analog DAC. I wonder which protocol is less noisy and more accurate. The Ravenna of the NADAC or the UPnP of the MSB Renderer input. Slightly related, I recently read a review of the Antipodes server, where the designer was quite certain of an UPnP setup creating more noise due to to the stack complication and response and request overhead especially with big files. The MSB Renderer likely has a 256MB RAM if based on the ABC PCB Renderer board and so has to request for data packets many times per song if all packets arrive without issue (hence why wired LAN is likely better than wireless connections to the music library) http://www.audiostream.com/content/antipodes-reference-series-dx-music-server-part-2 The ABC PCB board: http://www.abc-pcb.com/abc_docs/MR-MOD-DS-111E.pdf The Ravenna protocol used in NADAC : http://www.merging.com/uploads/assets/Merging_pdfs/Horus/Merging%20Ravenna%20Network%20Guide%20V8%20rev7.pdf Link to comment
tranz Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 I had no idea, thanks for sharing that information! So do they provide drivers or other software for PC or Mac users? So then it is not a renderer which would work in a Minimserver on a NAS for your music library and a control point such as Linn Lazoo or Auralic Lightning DS on an iPad? In other words without a Mac or PC? Yes, ASIO drivers. Not sure how it would be used with Minimserver, but certainly could be used with HQP, Amarra, Foobar etc. Guess we now need a renderer with Ravenna output... Link to comment
baddog Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thank you Tranz! Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs Link to comment
bibo01 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, ASIO drivers. Not sure how it would be used with Minimserver, but certainly could be used with HQP, Amarra, Foobar etc. Guess we now need a renderer with Ravenna output... Actually, NADAC has a ASIO driver for Windows and a Core Audio for OSx (I wish it could be compatible with Linux too). They have much less overheads than UPnP trasmission. How curious are you? Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 While Ravenna (AES 67) is more open license than Cobranet, Dante, Ethersound, AVB, and other "real time", low latency audio over IP protocols before it, it appears to still have very stringent requirements with regards to the network switches it will work with. Even the Merging/Ravenna guidebook that Tranz linked to above says that they require a very specific model of Dell Ethernet switch (though that paper was written several years ago). My point is, it remains to be seen how tolerant and robust it is in home network environments. But I really like that we are finally going to have an open standard audio IP protocol, free of heavy license fees. And best of all, it is not DLNA! (Cue the wrath of that Cebolla onion fellow now. ) UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Cebolla Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Even the Merging/Ravenna guidebook that Tranz linked to above says that they require a very specific model of Dell Ethernet switch (though that paper was written several years ago). My point is, it remains to be seen how tolerant and robust it is in home network environments. But I really like that we are finally going to have an open standard audio IP protocol, free of heavy license fees. And best of all, it is not DLNA! (Cue the wrath of that Cebolla onion fellow now. ) Mmm, just spotted this and I'll tame my wrath as you said DLNA (which I won't defend) without actually having a go at UPnP itself (I'm choosing to ignore any implication). Anyway, we appear to have coincided in our thoughts regarding reatime audio over ethernet (for once) , ie, Tranz's latest thread: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ravenna-streamer-24708/#post433300 We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us. -- Jo Cox Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Anyway, we appear to have coincided in our thoughts regarding reatime audio over ethernet (for once) , ie, Tranz's latest thread: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ravenna-streamer-24708/#post433300 Thanks for pointing out Tranz's new thread. I have some comments and questions I'll post over there, but don't have time at the moment. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
tranz Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 The one thing I do see is a 1 nanosecond clock resolution for the NADAC, which seems high. The MSB uses the master femtosecond clock to drive the Renderer. This alone might negate any benefit from a more efficient stack. Of course just speculating. Link to comment
wisnon Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Dartzeel LHC-208, Plays directly from the NAS. 200wpc integrated amp/Dac/streamer. Less that $15K. A winner from Day 1. Link to comment
Superdad Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Dartzeel LHC-208, Plays directly from the NAS. 200wpc integrated amp/Dac/streamer. Less that $15K. A winner from Day 1. It's a nice unit (of typical top-end Dartzeel quality), but: a) Though announced in 2013, I'm not seeing any sign of it actually being in production yet (so I guess "day 1" is not yet here.) b) Its network interface is just another DLNA/UPnP renderer, so no ground is breaking there (though it does use the good, Swiss, ABC-PCB Edel/MR-MOD renderer module for it's Ethernet input). UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
tranz Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Dartzeel LHC-208, Plays directly from the NAS. 200wpc integrated amp/Dac/streamer. Less that $15K. A winner from Day 1. Thanks wisnon, You heard it? More info and innard pics: http://www.audioaficionado.org/integrated/24884-dartzeel-lhc-208-integrated-amp-dac.html I am a bit wary having all that in one box though. I do not even like having the power supply in the same box. Link to comment
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