Amazing new product

[wgscott]

It is possible to hype a product all you want without ever having to resort to BS claims that are demonstrably false or meaningless. It is also logically possible that the product is superior for reasons other than BS quoted.

 

By BS, we aren't just referring to over-exaggerated claims, etc., but claims that cannot be correct if the laws of physics hold.

[Priaptor]

Oh, please. I'm not even going to start naming the reputable high end manufacturers, we'd be here all day. That includes consumer as well as pro stuff. The high end audio equipment that has to resort to pseudo-science marketing is in my estimation relatively rare (fortunately, and despite the impression that might be created at times by the truly laughable claims).

 

Interesting that you use Z-Strips and Z-Stabilizers and you are going to lecture me about hype?

 

Oh please.

[Priaptor]

It is possible to hype a product all you want without ever having to resort to BS claims that are demonstrably false or meaningless. It is also logically possible that the product is superior for reasons other than BS quoted.

 

By BS, we aren't just referring to over-exaggerated claims, etc., but claims that cannot be correct if the laws of physics hold.

 

wgscott,

 

I get it. You guys don't believe in the hype. Few manufacturers claim reality. This is especially common for cables. I get it. Nordost, MIT, Synergistic, etc all make claims that defy the laws of physics. I try them and really don't like to change my gear. I don't even read the hype. When I was looking for new dual monoblocks, ARC was hyping the REF 210s and my ears liked the McIntosh MC2301s better. Guess what. The REF250s were also hyped except this time my ears like them better than the competition. Luckily there are die hard McIntosh guys and I lost almost nothing.

 

The definition of hype is the BS you choose to not to believe and "fact" is the hype you choose to believe. I have been in this business long enough to see great measurements on stuff that sounds like crap and vice versa.

[wgscott]

wgscott,

 

I get it. You guys don't believe in the hype. Few manufacturers claim reality. This is especially common for cables. I get it. Nordost, MIT, Synergistic, etc all make claims that defy the laws of physics. I try them and really don't like to change my gear. I don't even read the hype. When I was looking for new dual monoblocks, ARC was hyping the REF 210s and my ears liked the McIntosh MC2301s better. Guess what. The REF250s were also hyped except this time my ears like them better than the competition. Luckily there are die hard McIntosh guys and I lost almost nothing.

 

The definition of hype is the BS you choose to not to believe and "fact" is the hype you choose to believe. I have been in this business long enough to see great measurements on stuff that sounds like crap and vice versa.

 

The claims about creating energy out of nothing (violating the first and second laws of thermodynamics), and magnetic memory, aren't simply a matter of opinion. If I or everyone in the world chooses to believe it, it is still wrong.

[bhobba]

The laws of physics simply don't apply in Audio wonderland.

 

I know a cable maiker and most definitely there is a valid reason why they sound different. In his case he believes it has to do with the dielectric. Its just that guys that make them do not have the time or inclination to investigate exactly why.

 

Thanks

Bill

[The Computer Audiophile]

OK Guys - I get it that tact is not a strong suit of everybody. But, it's unnecessary to jump into every thread with a subjective opinion and call BS. If you feel the need to jump in your opinions will be taken much better when you use language in which you'd use if the person was sitting down for a cup of coffee with you.

 

Imagine a conversation on this same topic that doesn't cause headaches or turn people away en masse.

 

OP: Hey I love these cables. They are the best I've ever heard. Here's a link.

1R: Interesting, I don't believe the claims of the manufacturer because they go against my scientific background and here's why... However, I'm glad you enjoy them. Thanks for reporting on your experience.

2R: I'm with you 1R. I've never hear the cables so I really can't judge the impact or lack there of, but I remain skeptical.

3R: I've heard them and love the positive impact they make for such little money comparatively.

OP: Hey guys, I understand the skepticism but based on my experience I'm sold and wanted to share this with everyone who may be interested.

 

 

P.S. The number of complaints I receive goes sky high when so many threads turn into a mess about beliefs rather than just a conversation amongst people with similar interests.

[Jud]

Interesting that you use Z-Strips and Z-Stabilizers and you are going to lecture me about hype?

 

Oh please.

 

Yeah, noise filters connected in parallel with power and using impedance (symbol Z - get it?) to isolate components and remove noise is the province of crackpots like the IEEE (numerous papers in their Proceedings), Keith Johnson (you know, that Spectral stuff that is famous for having no legitimate technical basis for their designs), and Richard Marsh (20 years at that loony bin of pseudo science, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.)

[wdw]

Tough crowd...

The guy just wanted to express his enthusiasm for a new set of cables and it devolves into an inquisition...all of these cable manufacturers shovel out bs by the truckload but, to my ears, some make a strong audible improvement. You cable skeptics should just go out for a walk, take some air, let us exchange some thoughts on a subject that, clearly, is beyond your ken....

To Priaptor,

You gotta lash up a set of Nordost now you've unleashed your system from the MIT chokehold (I was there too with many years of these cables). Your speakers are wired internally with Odin and these are obscenely expensive but, to see, try Heimdall or better...give them a few weeks to voice (Julf, take a deep breath and relax)

Cheers to all,

WDW

[NOMBEDES]

Blue Jeans Cables. Well built, inexpensive. No dark matter packed in fish oil.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Blue Jeans Cables. Well built, inexpensive. No dark matter packed in fish oil.

Bummer, fish oil is supposed to be good for you :~)

[esldude]

removed due to thermodynamics (entropy)

[MikeJazz]

OK Guys - I get it that tact is not a strong suit of everybody. But, it's unnecessary to jump into every thread with a subjective opinion and call BS. If you feel the need to jump in your opinions will be taken much better when you use language in which you'd use if the person was sitting down for a cup of coffee with you.

 

Imagine a conversation on this same topic that doesn't cause headaches or turn people away en masse.

 

OP: Hey I love these cables. They are the best I've ever heard. Here's a link.

1R: Interesting, I don't believe the claims of the manufacturer because they go against my scientific background and here's why... However, I'm glad you enjoy them. Thanks for reporting on your experience.

2R: I'm with you 1R. I've never hear the cables so I really can't judge the impact or lack there of, but I remain skeptical.

3R: I've heard them and love the positive impact they make for such little money comparatively.

OP: Hey guys, I understand the skepticism but based on my experience I'm sold and wanted to share this with everyone who may be interested.

 

I could be Mr "2R".

I never form a opinion before listening.

But I cannot help to have certain preconceptions...in this case the technological description and the poor presentation of data does not help me in forming positive expectation.

 

But happy for OP, of course!

[Julf]

OK Guys - I get it that tact is not a strong suit of everybody. But, it's unnecessary to jump into every thread with a subjective opinion and call BS. If you feel the need to jump in your opinions will be taken much better when you use language in which you'd use if the person was sitting down for a cup of coffee with you.

 

Point taken. But isn't it equally unnecessary to jump into every thread where somebody expresses a desire for objective data with disparaging remarks about "objectivists" who clearly have either systems that aren't resolving enough, or ears that don't work?

 

OP: Hey I love these cables. They are the best I've ever heard. Here's a link.

 

Yes, that intro might have produced a different outcome. But to someone from a Northern European background, a posting that uses the word "amazing" a number of times (even in ALL CAPS) sounds like aggressive promotion. It probably doesn't come across that way to a North American, but if we want to be sensitive to tone, we can't assume everybody here comes from the US.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Point taken. But isn't it equally unnecessary to jump into every thread where somebody expresses a desire for objective data with disparaging remarks about "objectivists" who clearly have either systems that aren't resolving enough, or ears that don't work?

 

I agree 100%

 

I've never liked when people claim another's system isn't resolving enough when the closest they've come to hearing it is reading the description in a signature line. Sure some $5 desktop speakers aren't going to resolve much but the speculation almost always involves systems of much better quality.

 

I too read the wording of the original post and thought something may be up. But, the OP has been around CA for awhile and earned a solid reputation.

[4est]

Point taken. But isn't it equally unnecessary to jump into every thread where somebody expresses a desire for objective data with disparaging remarks about "objectivists" who clearly have either systems that aren't resolving enough, or ears that don't work?

 

 

Yes, that intro might have produced a different outcome. But to someone from a Northern European background, a posting that uses the word "amazing" a number of times (even in ALL CAPS) sounds like aggressive promotion. It probably doesn't come across that way to a North American, but if we want to be sensitive to tone, we can't assume everybody here comes from the US.

 

Who cares if it is an aggressive promotion of a product the OP is enthralled with? It is a cable he likes- big deal! There is no reason to be a buzz kill and demand proof, especially asked in a manner that implied that there might be "proof" from other cable makers that would satisfy the objectivists. If one does not think cabling can make a difference, I do not understand the point of even posting on this thread.

 

I am in no position to spend that much on cables these days, but I did find it good to hear that they use Stabilant 22 on the connections. It is a proven product that is used in commercial audio, as well as aerospace. I would not be surprised if there are even measurements backing that up. Heck, the objectivists might even hear the differences with it!

[chg]

Yes, that intro might have produced a different outcome. But to someone from a Northern European background, a posting that uses the word "amazing" a number of times (even in ALL CAPS) sounds like aggressive promotion. It probably doesn't come across that way to a North American, but if we want to be sensitive to tone, we can't assume everybody here comes from the US.

 

I have to agree here.

 

You're not the only one. I despise the word "amazing" and it's used so much now. It instantly says to me: aggressive promotion! I know that accusing a member of aggressive promotion posting would probably not be a good idea (especially when it's not a newbie) so I will just say that I don't think you could have written a more "aggressive promotion" sounding post without actually being an "aggressive promotion" sounding post. Even the follow up replies continued with the marketing speak. I'm not accusing mind you.

 

Cables sound different, in different systems (i.e., system dependent), and dependent on listener preferences, so I don't think cables can be "AMAZING" in and of themselves.

 

This is the kind of op that can give subjectivity a bad name, in my opinion.

[chg]

Edit above post:

 

"aggressive promotion" sounding post without actually being an "aggressive promotion" sounding post.

 

Drop the word "sounding" in the second half of sentence.

[Priaptor]

Edit above post:

 

 

 

Drop the word "sounding" in the second half of sentence.

 

You pathetic propeller heads are just that. Do you think I sell this stuff or have ANY financial interest in this company or product. You guys are just a joke. I posted my experience with a great product.

 

You made the claim, now back up your assertion that I am promoting. Sharing my experience is quite different than promoting. But you like the rest are just propeller heads.

 

Yes "AMAZING" I will describe when I find a product that outperforms cable costing 10x what this one does. I could care less about your sensitivity to the word amazing. Grow up.

 

What experience do you have? Do you have the same vitriol when Chris recommends a component such as the EMM DAC2X as the "best". Read some of his superlatives. Yes subjectivity is just that.