Auraliti Pk90 (asynch USB) or Pk100 (SPDIF)

[Kelly]

Hi, I'm looking into updating my transport and I'm keenly interested in the Auraliti players.

 

My DAC has a very good asynchronous USB input that seems to work very well at all sampling rates to 192. Currently I'm using my PC with JRiver and I have been very happy with the sound quality through the USB port. The PC is totally non-tweaked hardware wise but I have gone through the steps (I think) to ensure bit perfect playback with JRiver per Chris's articles.

 

I would like to eliminate my PC from the system and introduce a noiseless transport that could playback from a networked drive/computer in a different room. I have a tweaked Squeezebox Touch that I've been using through the SPDIF inputs but it just doesn't measure up to the USB input from my PC. So, I'm looking at the Auraliti devices. My question is, which one to get? The Auraliti with the SPDIF output or the USB output? Both will work with my DAC. My tendency is to lean towards the USB device since that is what I have heard sound the best on my DAC, but perhaps a really good SPDIF transport is ultimately better?

 

I understand which one will work best is probably specific to the DAC, but does anyone have any insight/advice as to which one to pick?

 

[1audio]

Not all async 192 DACs will work on Linux. This could be a deciding issue.

 

[Audio_ELF]

Assuming you are using the NAD M51 in your .sig; I think the USB connection would be the way to go (it's a standard Class 2.0 USB).

 

Eloise

 

[One and a half]

work under Linux, do you know which ones?

 

Streamlength do, for sure, Audiphilleo and Xoom chipset variants.

 

[Audio_ELF]

ARC doesn't.

M2Tech don't.

Wyred4Sound (DAC2) doesn't.

 

Easy check is if a DACs requires a driver for Mac OS X it won't work with Linux.

 

Eloise

 

[djn04]

I have a PK90 that I use with an Ayre QB9 and I enjoy the sound and ease of use.

 

I do have a question for the people at Auraliti. With the ALAC codec going open source is it possible to add it to the supported codecs for the PK90? Another related question. Is it possible to update the MPD build to whatever is the latest and currently shipping?

Thanks.

 

[1audio]

The ALAC code becoming open source is a good start. When we see it being well adopted (code words for reliable implementations) we will incorporate it. Currently its only available in a package with a lot of other stuff, some of which require expensive licenses, something that we don't find particularly interesting. Also, even though Apple released their code no one seems to have adopted it, choosing to use the reverse engineered version. There are still questions as to whether the surrounding patents will become a problem.

 

Currently we update by physically replacing the firmware. We are working on a process to do that over the internet but its not ready. The current version of the firmware has the latest stable versions of ALSA and MPD, the two critical apps. The "development" versions have a few new features usually and often some show stopping bugs so you don't want those. Much as I have tried I really cannot find sonic differences between the latest firmware and the very first generation.

 

We do expect to have a new version very soon with support for some of the new stuff happening like DSD, but that isn't ready yet.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah it's the M51 and it is USB Audio 2.0 compliant and is not supposed to need a driver when used with the recent apple OSX. I was thinking the asynch device would be the way to go, just wanted some other opinions. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[cjbrinkman]

Kelly, Have you tried a PK90 with your M51 yet? I just bought a PK90 but have been told by both NAD and W4S that their DACs would not work with Linux. I currently have a Tranquility DAC but plan to replace it with one that has volume control built in. The M51 is at the top of my list but the dealer is trying to sell me a USB to Spdif converter for only an additional $1,900.

[audiozorro]

We do expect to have a new version very soon with support for some of the new stuff happening like DSD, but that isn't ready yet.

 

I sure hope you are working on both DSD64 and DSD128.

[Kelly]

Kelly, Have you tried a PK90 with your M51 yet? I just bought a PK90 but have been told by both NAD and W4S that their DACs would not work with Linux. I currently have a Tranquility DAC but plan to replace it with one that has volume control built in. The M51 is at the top of my list but the dealer is trying to sell me a USB to Spdif converter for only an additional $1,900.

 

Re Linux: Supposedly the Auraliti and NAD are USB Audio 2.0 compliant, so that should mean the Auraliti would work. I would bet NAD would not help you troubleshoot if there is a problem, but I wouldn't let that stop me if I knew I wanted a PK90.

 

However, I decided to hold off for a bit and get to know the M51 better before changing anything else in the system. Upon further listening the USB is definitely not the best input at least as I have it configured. (JRiver + Win7 PC in dedicated mode, it's my general purpose PC, very powerful but not optimized for audio in anyway.) My Squeezebox Touch SPDIF (on which I have installed the software mods), sounds better than the built in USB. This obviously would make me leary of getting a USB only player. So, I hesitated and haven't purchased any other player yet.

 

 

That isn't necessarily a bad thing because the SBT is actually a pretty good piece of equipment even if it is cheap. It has a great interface too with a dedicated remote. So I just decided to keep using it. I am interested in NAD's M50 digital player which is supposed to match the M51, but that hasn't come out yet.

 

So are they trying to sell you a Berkeley USB interface? If so that is supposed to be an incredible interface. But I would think something like a halide bridge may be all you would need. Or, for $300 how about a squeezebox touch? I would give that a shot before sinking 2k into a usb-spdif converter.

 

The built in USB is not really bad, in fact it sounds pretty good. But the USB interface is a rate-limiting step as the M51 can sound SO good when fed by other (relatively modest) means. The volume control is really excellent. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

Sorry this reply didn't answer your question.

[Paul R]

Re Linux: Supposedly the Auraliti and NAD are USB Audio 2.0 compliant, so that should mean the Auraliti would work. I would bet NAD would not help you troubleshoot if there is a problem, but I wouldn't let that stop me if I knew I wanted a PK90.

 

Hi Kelly - slightly off topic, but I saw a Touch running USB to a M51 last weekend. Admittedly, the coax input sounded better, but I think that has more to do with the Touch than the M51. I expect the quality of the Auraliti would make some difference.

 

The reason I don't own one (yet) is the same reason I resist the Bryston player. Both of them sound really really good - far better than I ever expected. But, the user interface on both of them just doesn't thrill me. mPAD is kinda nice, but compared to SqueezePad or even Squeezebox controller, it really dampens the enjoyment of using those boxes. For me at least - other people will certainly disagree...

 

Honestly, I think the Vortexbox distribution, in particular the Sonore stuff, would be the very best player around. However, the "Vortexbox Player" won't playback without gaps, though it does everything else well. To get gapless playback, you have to run MPD, which is exactly the same as an Auraliti. No getting around that yet.

 

The guy who wrote Vortexbox player does not see any need for gapless playback, and it isn't a simple thing to fix, darn it all.

 

-Paul

[4est]

Heresy, I say! Post their address and we could bombard them with requests!

[cjbrinkman]

Re Linux: Supposedly the Auraliti and NAD are USB Audio 2.0 compliant, so that should mean the Auraliti would work. I would bet NAD would not help you troubleshoot if there is a problem, but I wouldn't let that stop me if I knew I wanted a PK90.

 

However, I decided to hold off for a bit and get to know the M51 better before changing anything else in the system. Upon further listening the USB is definitely not the best input at least as I have it configured. (JRiver + Win7 PC in dedicated mode, it's my general purpose PC, very powerful but not optimized for audio in anyway.) My Squeezebox Touch SPDIF (on which I have installed the software mods), sounds better than the built in USB. This obviously would make me leary of getting a USB only player. So, I hesitated and haven't purchased any other player yet.

 

 

That isn't necessarily a bad thing because the SBT is actually a pretty good piece of equipment even if it is cheap. It has a great interface too with a dedicated remote. So I just decided to keep using it. I am interested in NAD's M50 digital player which is supposed to match the M51, but that hasn't come out yet.

 

So are they trying to sell you a Berkeley USB interface? If so that is supposed to be an incredible interface. But I would think something like a halide bridge may be all you would need. Or, for $300 how about a squeezebox touch? I would give that a shot before sinking 2k into a usb-spdif converter.

 

The built in USB is not really bad, in fact it sounds pretty good. But the USB interface is a rate-limiting step as the M51 can sound SO good when fed by other (relatively modest) means. The volume control is really excellent. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

Sorry this reply didn't answer your question.

 

My NAD dealer heard from NAD engineering that the M51 would absolutely NOT work with the PK90 via USB. No reason why. Seems strange when NAD is bringing out their own version of a Linux server soon. Apparently USB 2.0 compliant doesn't mean much today.

 

And today I got an email from Empirical that the Offramp converter also won't work with Linux. Looks like an Audiophilleo might be the only top class converter that will work with the PK90 and cost less than the M51.

 

I lived in the Silicon Valley for 23 years where I could audition virtually any gear I was interested in at either a dealer or friend's house. Now that I have moved to Hilton Head, SC everything has to be done at arms length. Our dealers don't even want to talk about anything except HT.

[Kelly]

My NAD dealer heard from NAD engineering that the M51 would absolutely NOT work with the PK90 via USB. No reason why. Seems strange when NAD is bringing out their own version of a Linux server soon. Apparently USB 2.0 compliant doesn't mean much today.

 

And today I got an email from Empirical that the Offramp converter also won't work with Linux. Looks like an Audiophilleo might be the only top class converter that will work with the PK90 and cost less than the M51.

 

I lived in the Silicon Valley for 23 years where I could audition virtually any gear I was interested in at either a dealer or friend's house. Now that I have moved to Hilton Head, SC everything has to be done at arms length. Our dealers don't even want to talk about anything except HT.

 

I am in Fayetteville, NC and there is NOTHING here. Raleigh is close and I go there on the weekends. There is an ok hifi store but they are mostly geared to home treater. They do have some serious companies represented (ARC, Levinson, Vandersteen, Wilson, Aerial, etc.) but getting a 2-channel rep who will give you the time of day is a challenge. They really don't even have the stuff set up very well. If you are there to spend less than $10k they don't seem to care about you. Other dealers around here amount to people who sell stuff out of their house and have very limited stuff to listen to. I understand your frustration.

 

What about the Auraliti PK100? It should work with the M51. Has it fallen out of favor? It wouldn't sound like a Berkeley USB but it would get the 1's and 0's there. One combo that I have heard does work VERY well with the Auraliti PK90 is the Ayre DAC. But the usb is the only input and there is no volume. No perfect solution yet. I am satisfied with the SBT for now, but will upgrade if I find just the right thing.

[1audio]

Welcome to the world of computer acronyms and their associated confusion. USB2 refers to the USB link standard , with support to 480 Mbps throughput. It doesn't mean that an audio device will support USB Audio Class 2 (UAC2), the newer USB audio interface that supports sample rates above 96 KHz. This has caused lots of confusion and probably will continue to do so.

 

UAC2 was created as a standard to overcome the limitations of UAC1. It has not been adopted widely yet. And there are a variety of non-standard solutions for high sample rate support in USB that require custom drivers. Not obvious is the requirement of custom drivers to be maintained and updated when a new OS is released and the need to support possibly as many as 8 OS's (Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8; OSX; Linux; iOS; Android; Windows Phone etc.) not to mention the different hardware platforms for those OS's. Using a standard interface makes the whole issue much easier.

 

We support UAC2 as implemented in Linux. The UAC2 standard is loose enough that not all UAC2 devices will properly inter-operate and some don't work quite right on Linux yet. If we can get the specifics of the incompatibilities we can get the Linux support enhanced. The chip vendors don't take Linux too seriously yet but they will soon. Meanwhile the XMOS based devices (The majority of available UAC2 devices) work well as do the Audio Widget based devices.

[Bob Stern]

When the PK-90 is connected to a USB DAC, does the PK-90's USB driver actually implement "async" USB? In other words, does the PK-90 respond to USB flow control commands from the DAC so that the DAC does not have to adapt to the clock freq of the PK-90?

 

(The Auriliti website does not mention "async" USB, and there are no downloadable PDFs more recent than Dec. 2010, which preceded the introduction of the PK-90.)

[Jsmith]

When the PK-90 is connected to a USB DAC, does the PK-90's USB driver actually implement "async" USB? In other words, does the PK-90 respond to USB flow control commands from the DAC so that the DAC does not have to adapt to the clock freq of the PK-90?

 

(The Auriliti website does not mention "async" USB, and there are no downloadable PDFs more recent than Dec. 2010, which preceded the introduction of the PK-90.)

 

Yes with a but. If the DAC requires special drivers, the Linux distribution in the Auraliti may not support it. I had a PK90 with an async USB converter with the Streamlength code that worked just fine.

[ted_b]

?? Asynch USB refers to the DAC's implementation, not the source pc (or Auraliti)! There is no asynch USB MAc or pc either. A DAC is asynch (simplified) if it allows the USB to come over without using the source (pc) clock. The Auraliti has no drivers; it is USB Class 2 audio. My Auraliti PK90USB plays with every DAC I've had since its been here, but those not USB Class 2 will only see 24/96 (like Mytek's USB 1.0 port). My Meitner LOVES the Auraliti, and both 24/192 PCM and pure native DSD is played flawlessly.

[Miska]

Well, of course the Linux kernel used in Auraliti has drivers, and USB Audio Class 2 requires separate driver support from USB Audio Class 1. But both work fine with ALSA drivers included in recent Linux kernels.

 

USB Audio has three different streaming modes and all these require specific support from the driver too... Both computer and DAC end need to implement the USB Audio Class protocol specification. And everything doesn't always play so great together until all the issues are ironed out, CMedia's UAC2 adapters with Linux drivers as an example.

 

Since hardware is usually more or less dummy, so most of the time these are implemented in software, at the computer side it's called "driver" and at the DAC side it's called "firmware".

 

 

P.S. In addition the Linux UAC2 driver has specific support for some pieces of hardware like E-MU 0404 USB to support the way it controls clocking and sampling rate.

[wappinghigh]

The Auraliti Pk90 USB is now listed as supporting DSD. Cool.

 

Couple of quick Q, then if I may about this new version of the Auraliti.

 

1/ Just DSF?

2/ Support for DSD128 as well as DSD64 files?

3/ All would be sweet connecting this to the Sonore/exD DSD DAC? Y/N?

4/ Have the usb ports (for usb storage attachment) been upgraded to USB3.0 in the new model?

5/ What is the size of the SSD in the Auraliti?

6/ What is the upgrade path of MPD running on this server? A Download from the net? Where? Support? Is there any site for firmware upgrades?

7/ Can another player like Signalyst HQplayer, or even another linux program like an SMB server be run conjointly on the Auraliti?

9/ Do all Apple files from itunes need to be converted to AIFF?

 

Apols for all the Q.... but there is scant info and specs on the Auraliti website.

 

Thanks.

[firedog]

As I remember, the SSD in the Auraliti is very small and for the OS only.

[Jsmith]

It has been a couple of years since I had my Auraliti but if I remember correctly the OS was on a read only flash chip. Upgrades or updates came via sending it in for an update or swapping out the OS chip.

[ted_b]

Wap, I reported on the PK90 thread back in June that DSD was available and successful. Yes, it runs DSF or DFF (DSF has tags) and requires a version of MPD that supports DSD, of course. It is available from Auraliti. There is no SSD in the Aurlaiti, just a 2GB flash card for the OS; it is a minimalist design, that's the point.

 

 

The Auraliti PK90 also includes, as I discussed here, the HQPlayer NAA setup. This is defaulted if MPD is not started up.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/native-dsd-files-hqplayer-and-mytek-stereo192-dsd-10294/index4.html#post165564

 

And yes i reported it connected to my Sonore/eXD DAC I had in from Jesus at the time, but it will connect to any USB DSD-capable DAC of course, assuming the DSD-capable DAC is Linux compatible.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/new-sonore-dac-dsd-playback-12021/#post164509

 

MPD will play most any file format.

[wappinghigh]

Ted thanks for all the fantastic help (again)..

 

But sending it back for a firmware upgrade..? With all the inevitable changes constantly going on with MPD and computer audio...

 

Your kidding me right?..