Should all interconnects and speaker cable be from same manufacturer?

[barrows]

There is no reason that this approach would be necessary. After all when the signal goes into a preamp, the wiring it encounters is not from the same manufacturer...

 

OTOH, if you like the performance of one companies interconnects, you might like the performance of their speaker cables as well, so it might be worth trying them together.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Mark Said:

 

"Only if you believe that your DAC, CD Player, Turntable, FM Tuner, Preamp, Power amp and Speakers should also come from the same manufacturer. Computer too, if you can.

Otherwise it is completely senseless."

Followed by:

"Commonsense does not have to be long-winded

Surely what I said is totally obvious."

 

Mark - You are very quick to say things without any reasoning that the original poster could use for himself. Smart people posting questions here on CA are looking for reasons, not simply an answer and certainly not a smart ass answer.

 

This thread has nothing to do with whether cables make a difference or not. If you don't believe cables make a difference please state this and state that it doesn't matter if you mix and match cables, followed by your reasoning. If you believe cables matter then there are two possible answers (same manufacturer or mixed manufacturers) with an unlimited number reasons.

 

 

[monteverdi]

All my cables came from the same supplier: me. I listened to a lot of cables (commercial or DIY) and all sound different but the prices are not related (a few exceptions) to their quality. That one should get interconnect and speaker cables from the same company has more to do with marketing ideology than sonic or technological benefits. Interconnects are for high impedance connections and cable capacitance is an essential parameter but capacitance has not much relevance (except at very high values) for speaker or power cables. One parameter which is detrimental to sound is the dielectric (i.e. plastic) and most commercial cables have far to much of it - fat cables and heavy cables are not better. Cables can be used as tone controls but that is a bad strategy as when a component changes one needs to reset the dial - a new cable.

 

[Mark Powell]

1) It is not 'smart ass' at all. It is not even an opinion. It is just logic. If anyone, anyone at all, could explain to me why there is a logical requirement to buy cables all from one manufacturer while buying the boxes from different manufacturers I would be most interested. If the answer was genuinely fact, rather just opinion (we all have those), I expect every single person on this site, including you, would then know something that they did not know before.

 

2) Where have I ever, not just on this thread, said that cables do not make a difference? You also say that this thread has nothing to do with whether cables make a difference or not. That is simply untrue. The assumption in the original question is that they do, or at least, might. If not the OP would not have asked the question. But again, I neither suggested, nor implied, that they do not.

 

3) You ask me to state my cable position. It is this. The differences between different varieties of 'hardware store' cable can be every bit as great as the difference between any one of them and any one of the 1000 dollar specialist cables. Thus expensive cables are total BS.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Interesting "logic" Mark.

 

 

 

[esldude]

Haven't read all the replies though some of them.

 

First the question is so naive as to almost not be believed.

 

Regardless of any of that, the answer is no. Just NO, a big N and O as in NO. NO need to buy all from the same maker.

 

On the other hand, if you really believed a maker had figured it out better than others well why wouldn't you stick with only their cables.

 

There, a big NO, with a logical YES of course.

 

Maybe cables are just another audiophool obsession that doesn't matter. Any double blind test results....?

Well of course not!!!!!!

 

[Mark Powell]

I am not requesting that you answer this, you probably have better things to do.

 

But as far as I can see, there is no fault in my "logic" on point 1. If there is I would be genuinely interested to know what it is.

 

I do not see that my point 2 involves logic at all.

 

Point 3 (you did ask) is merely reporting my personal findings. I really have found greater differences between a range of hardware store cables than I have found between any given one of those and any given expensive cable that I have had access to. The only 'improvement' rather than 'difference' is below.

 

For me only, I have found the 'best' interconnect for all purposes except the low level moving coil cartridge and the phono stage to be the hardware store flat, white, thin, unshielded, very thin multicore telephone cable. Available at my local 99 cent store at 99 cents for 12 yards. I was very surprised by this.

 

 

[Mark Powell]

Why do so many people appear to believe that blind testing is not valid? I can understand why the expensive manufacturers don't like it, as they have nothing to gain and much to lose by such tests. But 'we' don't. No dealer likes them. If I walk into his shop with 10000 dollars in my hand he is not going to demonstrate to me that 500 dollars will produce a result just as good, is he?

 

I do think that such tests should apply only the the potential purchaser, not a panel. Why should I, as a purchaser, buying to please me, care what you think?

 

Let us assume that all tests have some validity. Why should any test be invalid simply because the test subject does not know what is being done?

 

[Kimo]

I would add that many manufacturers seem to have more success with one type of cable than another. For example: Power cables, Shunyata; Speaker cables, Analysis Plus, ICs, Audioquest. Mixing and matching provides one access to these models.

 

[realhifi]

But you sure wouldn't know it from the heated words conjured up by such a seemingly innocuous subject. The one post from esldude (great name by the way) had it pretty much spot on,

 

"Regardless of any of that, the answer is no. Just NO, a big N and O as in NO. NO need to buy all from the same maker.

 

On the other hand, if you really believed a maker had figured it out better than others well why wouldn't you stick with only their cables."

 

Again it comes down to responsibility. The consumer, listener, needs to take responsibility to actually LISTEN and decide for themselves if a complete set of cables from any manufacturer is the "right" thing for them.

 

I personally like to use a "set" of cables from the same manufacturer at one time. If someone likes the Nordost sound then by all means I think that it does make sense to follow the line from power cord to interconnect. Same for Audioquest, Audience, Naim, Linn, etc.. Not sure why this would be such a big deal and if folks just simply listened for themselves and make their own decisions on it then there might not be such hand wringing and heated debate about which is right and which is wrong.

 

But....to esldude: of course LOT'S of people have done double blind tests and constantly make decisions based on that. An obsession? No doubt. Doesn't make it any less real though.

 

 

[SteveChicago]

Someone should host a cable party. Everyone will bring a collection of power cords, interconnects and speaker cables. The host system will be outfitted randomly with various wires.

 

Let's see what happens ... lol

 

[Jsmith]

"If I walk into his shop with 10000 dollars in my hand he is not

going to demonstrate to me that 500 dollars will produce a result just as

good, is he?"

 

Mark a good dealer will. In fact, in my recent purchase I was looking to audition a well regarded DAC. The dealer no longer carried that DAC has they found a DAC costing less than half sounded better to them and had several customers agree. They still carry the well regarded companies other products, just not the DAC.

 

Most dealers and small business owners pride themselves on providing value to thier customers which means giving them the right product, not just the most expensive one.

 

[Mark Powell]

Personally I belive that expensive cables are a hoax because of what I have found - the differences between hardware store cables can be greater than the difference between a given hardware store cable and a given expensive cable. Buy the one you prefer in a blind test. Or buy 50 yards of the stuff, all different, and play around. Only concern yourself with the price when you have selected it, not before. but do NOT exclude the cheapest because they are sold off the reel for some other purpose. Only the expensive ones are worth decrying because they make claims the others do not and because they usually don't sound any better than a well chosen hardware store one.

 

That said, I have a plastic optical cable. I buy a glass one tomorrow because someone I respect here has said, more than once, that they are better. No prior listening, I'll take a chance.

 

[Jud]

Personally I believe that expensive cables are a hoax because of what I have found - the differences between hardware store cables can be greater than the difference between a given hardware store cable and a given expensive cable.

 

Mark, I'm guessing that at some point during your life you took courses in statistics or that through your work you were exposed to statistical analysis. Consider: Among whom would you expect greater variation in golfing ability, professionals or weekend duffers? Statistically, one always expects that excellence will be manifested over a fairly small range of variation, while there will be much greater variation over the range between very good and absolutely awful.

 

A far greater variation among "lower end" cables is *exactly* what one would expect if the "higher end" cables were doing things right. In turn this means if one does find an excellent or very good hardware store cable, there will indeed be a much greater variation between it and an awful hardware store cable than between it and an excellent higher end cable. So your experience may demonstrate exactly the opposite of the conclusion you have drawn from it.

 

[Jud]

of course LOT'S of people have done double blind tests and constantly make decisions based on that.

 

I'm guessing people have managed to do blind tests, but double blind tests are extremely difficult to set up. In blind testing, the person taking the test (sitting in the listener's chair) doesn't know what he/she is listening to; in double blind testing, neither he/she nor the person administering the test knows. It's not easy to set up apparatus so that no one in the test environment knows which equipment is playing at a given time.

 

[realhifi]

"I'm guessing people have managed to do blind tests, but double blind tests are extremely difficult to set up. In blind testing, the person taking the test (sitting in the listener's chair) doesn't know what he/she is listening to; in double blind testing, neither he/she nor the person administering the test knows."

 

Right, my mistake in not reading that properly. Blind listening tests where the person listening can not see or know which component, cable, they are listening to. Those are very common in my experience and with cables it is usually easily sorted out which one a person likes or dislikes or even if they hear any difference at all.

 

[Jay192]

cocktails have been served.

 

And for a lot of us it might also mean ripping out our walls' electrical cabling and a few international flights :-)

 

Regarding pricing / what people spend; On another forum there was a cable $ survey (all cables) and ~50% had spent more than $5k and ~25% had spent more than $10k.

 

I selected my cables based on what MBL and their distributors and dealers had said and what I auditioned. I didn't do a lot of testing in that regard, but mainly relied upon their years of experience.

 

[realhifi]

Wow, what forum was that? 50% had spent more than 5k on cables?!! Is that the MBL forum or something? That figure is astounding.

 

[Kimo]

"Consider: Among whom would you expect greater variation in golfing ability, professionals or weekend duffers? Statistically, one always expects that excellence will be manifested over a fairly small range of variation, while there will be much greater variation over the range between very good and absolutely awful."

 

Most golfers do not perform at a level equivalent to using cat hair for speaker cables.

 

I would suggest that a golfing equivalent of 14 gauge OFC cable might be scratch from the tips.

 

The analogy is not apt, if for no other reason there are far more expensive cables available than cheap hardware types.

 

 

[monteverdi]

A simple test: connect your amp to your speaker (one side is enough if you have a stereoamp) only with a few inches or cm of hookup wire (likely you have to move your amp to your speaker). Listen to that channel only and then to your speaker cables inserted and back to the hookup wires. If you don't hear a difference you are either deaf or have really bad speakers or the perfect cables - you chose.

 

[wgscott]

The most important thing in the above test: If you don't get the desired result, then it means you are either deaf or have really bad speakers.

 

The possibility that it makes no difference is a priori impossible, simply by decree.

 

[Mark Powell]

We never read what each other say!

 

I did not say anything about a greater variation between the cheap cables than the variation between the expensive ones. Read the bit you quoted again

 

I will put it another way - My tests, come out something like this, from poor performance on the left to good performance on the right. Good means 'I like it in my system' -

 

1000110111110001110O1

 

Where the cheap cables are represented by 0 and the expensive cables by 1. The 'best' cheap cable, as you can see, is marked by a O rather than a 0. Don't need any statistics.

 

I have done this. You will see that there is no 'cluster' of cheap versus expensive whatsover.

 

Regard, we not on 'opposite sides'.

 

[monteverdi]

What would be the desired result? What about option #3? If cables do not make any difference and you can exclude #1 & #2 it also should be #3!

 

[Mark Powell]

Your results may of course show that people who can afford 10K cables like to boast about it.

 

[senmurv76]

Personally I belive that expensive cables are a hoax because of what I have found - the differences between hardware store cables can be greater than the difference between a given hardware store cable and a given expensive cable.

 

I don't have access to nor the funds to try out a variety of cheap-ass, mid-range, and expense cables but based on my limited experience I would state the relationship between sound quality and $$ differently. Mathematically I would express SQ vs. $$ relationship with an inverse exponential graph.