Should all interconnects and speaker cable be from same manufacturer?

[papageno]

I have heard different answers to the above question, some maintain that all interconnects in the same chain e.g. DAC to preamp, preamp to amp all should be from the same manufacturer to maintain balance; others advocate that having different brands of cables eliminate or decrease sonic signatures of any particular brand. And should speaker cables be from the same manufacturer of your interconnects. These are very difficult to do A/B on to resolve and so I would like to hear what the real answer is.

 

[Mark Powell]

Only if you believe that your DAC, CD Player, Turntable, FM Tuner, Preamp, Power amp and Speakers should also come from the same manufacturer. Computer too, if you can.

 

Otherwise it is completely senseless.

 

[crisnee]

I would like to hear what the real answer is.

 

Now that would be something that Papageno says.

 

So here's the real answer, a little less abrupt version than Marks.

 

I don't know; but imagine this. You get all the same company's cables and they all suck. Or, you get a bunch of different cables and they all exactly cancel out each other's assets.

 

Basically, if you think cables are a big deal, you're going to have to listen. I'd personally look everywhere else first, including and particularly set-up. Check out Jim Smith's book or DVDs if you haven't already. Then, if you've got the cash to burn, listen to them thar cables--it should be a long and grueling endeavor but at least it won't be rewarding. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not completely anti cables jewelry, I just sound like it.

 

-Chris

 

 

 

[Mark Powell]

Commonsense does not have to be long-winded

 

Surely what I said is totally obvious.

 

I am not criticising papageno, just curious where he got the idea. It does only make sense if you you think all the other stuff comes from the same supplier, otherwise it's nuts. Hopefully thir cables too. Naim push that idea, quite successfully.

 

There is a very expensive UK snake oil manufacturer call Vertex AQ who push the 'loom' concept. They have just introduced their first box, a 14,000 dollar DAC. The 14000 dollars makes it 'High End' (whatever that is) of course. Let us hope they don't make anything else.

 

EDIT - All a cable has to do it ensure that what goes in one end comes out the same at the other end. Most simple and cheap pieces of wire do this. I don't care about 'dull' (filtering of the high end) 'bright' (filtering of the low end), resistance, capacitance, lumped parameters, fancy construction, connectors made of unobtainium, or whatever. That's all mumbo jumbo.

 

[wdomeika]

That said, all my interconnects and speaker cables are Nirvana.

 

Call me superstitious...or an egregious waster of money.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

[Mark Powell]

The best example of this concept is Meridian/Sooloos. Their stuff is totally 'one manufacturer'.

 

It is much more expensive than Bang and Olufsen and sounds much worse.

 

[wgscott]

Absolutely.

 

They should all come from Blue Jeans Cable.

 

Or Amazon.

 

Except your optical cable, should you require one. A glass one is actually worth it. Get one with a mini plug rather than an adaptor.

 

[Teresa]

as I have taken it as a truism for nearly 40 years that all cabling has to be from not only the same manufacturer but from the same series so as to get the maximum benefit of the cabling. I remember reading that mixing cables was a road to sonic disaster.

 

As far as the comment about all components being from the same manufacturer, this sounds logical to me as well and I believe it was one of Bang and Olufsen's selling points. However my stereo system and computer are a total mishmash as everything is from different manufacturers except for my two speakers of course.

 

Speakers are the only thing I know of that not only have to be from the same manufacturer but the same model number and if possible with consecutive serial numbers so they are from the same batch. I think this is more important in matching the wood finishes but it surely doesn't hurt if the speaker elements are from the same batch.

 

If mixing components works perhaps mixing cabling will as well. I would experiment with a store that offers used cables with a 30 satisfaction guarantee.

 

[Mark Powell]

I am not a logical person but I try to think things through.

 

This is off track but is an example.

Skimmed milk has less fat. They remove the fat so you end up with less volume. They may or may not add water to make it up but I don't know see below). Probably not - here in the UK they are not allowed to.

 

However, you always seem to have put more in to make your tea or coffee the colour you want. As they remove only the fat you end up with more of the other, possibly undesirable, chemicals. Am I the only one that sees that? May be right, may be wrong. Doesn't matter, it's just an example of thinking things through.

 

Similarly, if you believe you should only use one make of cable, for 'balance' was a reason stated, then logically you MUST believe you should only use one make of equipment.

 

[CG]

I spend many of my day job hours working with cables. No, I am not in the audio business. Nor in the cable business. Nor am I an electrician. I'm talking about signal carrying cables. In fact, the levels of the signals are pretty much the same as found in audio systems.

 

If only all nominally similar cables performed the same and could be completely quantified with an accurate Ohmmeter. It would make my and my colleague's lives much easier.

 

However, as I continue to say, home audio is not a life or death situation, although to some people it's far more important than that. So, whatever might work for you should be all that matters.

 

[Jsmith]

My dealer believes that all should be from the same brand with some certain exceptions. Many dealers will be able to loan you cables to try. If you can, borrow a set and then interchange with you current. You should be able to 1) hear if the new cables are better than yours and 2) if they provide better overall sound than when you mix and match with your current.

 

As a side benefit you may have some fun and you can determine for yourself if you believe cables make a difference or not.

 

[Jud]

Some folks (oddly, not audio electronic engineers) declare flatly that cables can make no difference. That is simply too reductionist a point of view, substituting a pseudo-exact "there is no difference" for the reality, which is "my level of understanding doesn't include anything that would make a difference," or shorter, "I don't know." I and some other people hear differences, other folks don't. To see if you hear differences, listen. If you don't hear any, great, you've saved yourself some money. If you do hear differences, then follow me to the next paragraphs for some common-sense advice.

 

Never, never buy different cables to cancel out defects in each other or defects in some other component. This (often referred to as "system matching") is an utterly wrongheaded way to set up a stereo system. Any component or cable that is far enough away from a natural reproduction of music to have a clearly identifiable "sound" of its own is doing something very, very wrong. What you do when you system match is not cancelling out defects any more than pairing a too-small top with too-large pants will get you a perfectly fitting suit of clothes. Instead, what you have got yourself is a bunch of defective components/wires, and your system will sound like a bunch of defective stuff, i.e., bad.

 

Instead, listen in each case for components/wires that sound as close to real and natural as possible. This means you should clearly hear the fact that different recordings and even different tracks on the same recording sound quite different from each other. It means instruments, particularly vocals (because the human voice is the instrument with which we are most familiar) should sound real, and you should be able to hear, for example, the small changes in breathing, phrasing and tone that clearly communicate the singer's emotion. (That depends on the recording, of course.) You will then have a system that is made up of very good components and cables, and the result should sound that way, i.e., good.

 

It wouldn't be surprising if you find the cables you prefer as sounding as close to real and natural as possible tend to be from the same cable manufacturer. Thus although there is no rule that says all cables must be from the same manufacturer for best sound, you may find that at the end of your listening your individual choices have had something close to this result.

 

[wgscott]

The question might be read like this:

 

1. Should all speaker cables be from the same manufacturer?

 

A: Absolutely. You shouldn't have different left and right, or 5 channels, with different types of wires. So not only should the wire be from the same manufacturer, ideally it should be from the same spool. Some people even insist the wires be of the same length.

 

2. Should all interconnects be from the same manufacturer?

 

A: All left RCA cables, for example, should match all right RCA cables.

 

[Julf]

If we are talking about analog signals (as opposed to digital), I would say that equal length is more important than the cables being from the same spool. Manufacturing tolerances tend to be pretty tight, but the usual analog variables (attenuation, capacitance/inductance/resistance etc.) are all linear functions of cable length. Double the length, double the capacitance...

 

[wgscott]

How great an increase in speaker wire capacitance do you need before it becomes audible?

 

[Julf]

Indeed, for speaker cables capacitance is not an issue, unless you have an over-sensitive class D amp that gets into ringing. Ohmic resistance and inductance can be real issues. I look at some of the thinner and flatter speaker cables being used with 200W+ amps and down-to-1-ohm speakers, and shake my head...

 

[papageno]

Just to reassure repliers that this was not a random stream of consciousness thought I had. This question specifically has been discussed at some length in Robert harley's widely read book on high end audio (Chapter 11, Page 357, Third edition). He goes on to say that the rationale for using different cables initially arose from the music recording industry where recording engineers would record through one type of console and mix the record through a different brand of console....."they did not want to hear the console's sound in the final product, so they don't subject the signal to the same sonic signature twice". I know music listening rarely follows a reductionist approach and hence my question.

 

[CG]

"How great an increase in speaker wire capacitance do you need before it becomes audible?"

 

a) It depends on the feedback parameters of the amplifier and the amount of phase margin built into the amplifier design over the frequency range where the amplifier or even just its output stage has gain, whether voltage or current gain.

 

b) It depends on the other dielectric characteristics of the capacitance in the cable.

 

c) It depends on the what radiated EMI is present where the system is set-up, what frequency(s) it is at, what kind of load the speaker presents at the EMI frequency(s), how long the cable is, and how susceptible the amplifier is to being upset by EMI.

 

Those are just three examples. None are subjective based on somebody's hearing and/or taste. Actually, I suppose it really could be subjective because some people are quite willing to put up with the distortion caused by any or all of these. Everybody's MMV...

 

[AudioDoctor]

"However, as I continue to say, home audio is not a life or death situation, although to some people it's far more important than that."

 

Thanks for that chuckle!

 

[SteveChicago]

1. I use Belden copper speaker wire; it's 14 gauge quad, but I do not bi-wire so effectively it's 11 gauge. It cost me about $75 USD, IIRC for the spool. I have a 25 foot run so pricey speaker wire is out of the question.

 

It works / sounds great.

 

2. I use both silver (Time Portal) and copper (PS Audio and DH Labs) interconnects and power cords in my system. I bought all of them either pre-owned or at a discount.

 

They work and sound great.

 

3. I believe that as long as the cabling is of appropriate gauge and decent quality, that's all you really need.

 

4. IMO, the room, speaker placement, and components are far more important than cables.

 

Just one guy's opinion, FWIW .... :-)

 

[realhifi]

I feel like I just walked in on a conversation at a meeting of the local Audio Club...circa 1980. Are some folks still trying to decide if cables make a difference?

 

[wdomeika]

@SteveChicago and wgscott...

 

Have you compared silver vs copper interconnects? Do you find any material difference in SQ with silver?

 

I haven't done a comparison between the two, but I have heard a silver wired version of my DAC and the SQ was significantly different...more revealing, better separation between instruments, crystal clear sibilance, more finely rendered vocals etc.

 

Problem is the silver-wired upgrade is >$6K. While I wouldn't assume that silver interconnects could produce what silver-wired transformers and internal wiring can do, I'm wondering if they might still be a material improvement over their copper counterparts.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

[SteveChicago]

1. I guy I know who mods gear insists that silver is best for a digital system ... more revealing.

 

2. The owner of a local high end shop insists that copper is preferable.

 

3. That shop owner also told me that mixing silver and copper cables in the same system is (and I quote) "dangerous" (i.e., messes up the sound).

 

As I said before, I have a mix and I like the sound.

 

Go figure ...

 

[SteveChicago]

are you saying cables do or do not make a difference?

 

[Kimo]

manufacturers should necessarily direct your search. I own VDH Revelations, which utilize silver plated copper, and BPT SC 7.5 cables, which utilize pure copper in a litz design. The VDH is the smoother less revealing of the two. This may have something to do with VDH's use of carbon. Carbon does seem to have a sound of its own, which some would call smooth, and others slightly veiled. The point is that there is more to the sound of the cable than the type of metal used. Both Roger Russell and AJ Vandenhul comment on their respective websites that silver and copper should sound no different from each other. One rails against high priced cables, the other sells them.

 

I would not be directly concerned with sticking with the same manufacturer either, unless you already own some product and like the company, but would suggest investigating buying direct. The dealer mark up on audiophile wire can be rather high.