HiFi Privacy, Data, Groups ... and You May Be The Product

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, I figured I'd start a thread on this one because it comes up more and more. Most recently in the Harman Acquired Roon thread, but it's an ongoing concern. We can now just link back to this thread, when it comes up in others, and contain the information to this location rather than derail other threads.

 

Let's also at least attempt to keep the conversation related to audio and privacy, rather than the CIA hacking into our phones as a general matter. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I used to use Google's services for all my email and documents, but late last year moved everything to Proton. I'm not a fan of being the product especially when paying Google and still being the product. 

 

Anyway, many people in our wonderful hobby think it's no big deal that streaming services know everything we listening to. I just talked to someone last week who said he doesn't care if Qobuz knows his listening habits and that nobody would really care enough about him to want that information, and other arguments along those lines. 

 

I think this is shortsighted. The big picture is all about bits and pieces of information collected from different services and locations, and assembled by larger companies to build the profile on you. Still not a big deal? The companies collecting all the data sell it to governments all over the world, and some of those don't have your best interest in mind. In addition, this data is never 100% secure. It's vulnerable to independent hackers and nation state hackers. 

 

For the most part, you and I don't think like they do, so we shouldn't be so laissez faire about this. By "they" I mean people, companies, and governments with the data and endless resources to use it. What's the big deal about your 23andMe DNA being stolen by hackers and partially owned by a Government? Not sure, but I don't think like those guys and I don't have the resources to do anything about it if I did.

 

Back to audio. Roon, Sonos, and many other apps collect data on us. Sonos was once called the NSA of audio by some of us in the industry. The company knows much more than the average person thinks. What time you get up, go to sleep, how you're feeling, what your zone names are, when new members of your family are born, etc... and on and on, based on piecing together data it collects from you. 

 

I don't know what Roon collects, but I don't like it. When I'm writing a review of a product, I often think about what I write and what data has been collected about my experience. If I say I loved a product so much I listened to an album 10 times in a row, will I someday be facing the HiFi cancellation police if the data collected is revealed and it turns out that I only listened to the album 9 times? Extrapolate from that as you will. 

 

I've also wondered about music servers that I get in for review. Are they like the Tesla that collected information while the reviewer used the car and wrote about it, only to be questioned after the fact by Musk about his use of the car? I have no clue, but I've thought about monitoring all servers I get in with a Pi-Hole and other devices. 

 

I don't pretend to be important enough to have people care about my HiFi data, but I also don't think like someone with an axe to grind. I've had people threaten my family over forum posts. People can be "strange" as we all know. 

 

On another note, I'm also surprised at how many people prefer to use social networks like Facebook and YouTube for their HiFi hobby communications, rather than independent forums and sites.  We collect zero data. In fact I disabled all analytics collection years ago because I hate it and I treat people how I want to be treated. 

 

Anyway, I have much to say about this topic. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I will also add, my Samsung Frame TV phones home constantly. When I look at the Pi-Hole logs, every second it's communicating with the mothership. Now that Samsung owns Roon, I'm a bit more concerned than when Roon was owned by a few guys who loved music. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

This is a screen cap of the most queried domains in my home from my AdGuard Home stats page.

 

I haven't quite figured out what to do about this yet but it is concerning. Google is all pervasive.

 

I switched to CloudFlare DNS rather than Google.

 

CloudFlare - 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

whatsApp

Have you tried Signal?

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Chris, nobody needs to scrape your data to know that you listen to Peal Jam albums on repeat! 

HA!

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, cjf said:

Tell that to Cloudflare. I've not seen or heard of an encryption method that is not also resource intensive for both ends of the pipe.

 

I guess you found one that isn't

If DNS only slows down your internet, something is wrong. 
 

DNS queries to CloudFlare do nothing to my speed. Given CloudFlare’s footprint, I could see them even speed up some queries. However, once the query is made and the response received, CloudFlare secure DNS is no longer involved in the connection. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Anyone faces problem with Ubiquiti Edge OS routers, recently?

https://www.securityweek.com/fbi-dismantles-ubiquiti-router-botnet-controlled-by-russian-cyberspies/

 

 

Wow. People still leave the defaults in place 😳
 

“cybercriminals installed the Moobot malware on Ubiquiti Edge OS routers that still used publicly known default administrator passwords.”

[The Computer Audiophile]

28 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Good morning, Minneapolis !

Seems to be the default way to use technical equipment for many  ...

 

You're correct Tom. Kind of crazy, especially becuase the Ubiquiti Edge equipment isn't something for the un-savvy consumer market. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

15 hours ago, Allan F said:

I have never signed up for Facebook because of privacy concerns, so that is not an issue for me. However, what pisses me off is the number of companies that have switched from using their own websites to forcing you to sign up to Facebook if you want to access their site information. Add to that how Facebook and Google encourage you to use them as logins so those behemoths can track your every move.

 

This is such a shortsighted move by websites. It blows my mind every time I see it. Anyone who has run a website for 15 minutes knows that the more you hook into other sites/services/companies that you don't control, the more hamstrung you are when it comes to making any changes on your site (security, features, etc...). Plus, troubleshooting login problems when you don't control the login process, I'd rather stick a pencil in my neck. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

There's a federal law of long standing prohibiting insurers from acquiring or using genetic data for this purpose. And no, there's no financial incentive to try to work around this, for a couple of reasons, which I can get into if anyone really wants to read the technical end of things.

Life insurance is another story though. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

ALL OS's have this, even linux.

Given that there are 500-1,000 Linux distributions, which ones do you believe “have this” and what do they have?

[The Computer Audiophile]

15 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Strange if it is, because it did not produce the same results as Google.

Google doesn’t reproduce the same results as Google. There is no such think as a static result. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

What does it say about our modern world that my very first thought when I saw this headline was... Will they start doing this again when the attention dies down?

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/gm-stops-sharing-driver-data-with-brokers-amid-backlash/

It will 100% start up again. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, Library said:

ahem… https://web.archive.org

?