Article: JPLAY for iOS Is Now Available

[vlomdmdiv]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:52 PM, mnuno10 said:

Yes, MConnect does not use subscriptions or in-app purchases, so they don't need to validate that user is allowed to use their app. Right now you need internet to start JPLAY app, but has I said we will look on a solution, so user can make a few app launchs without internet connection.  

 Any progress here, by chance? 

[mnuno10]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:19 PM, vlomdmdiv said:

 Any progress here, by chance? 

Not yet, we will try to make it work in the release after the next one(next one is already approved and whould be released today).

[vlomdmdiv]

17 hours ago, mnuno10 said:

Not yet, we will try to make it work in the release after the next one(next one is already approved and whould be released today).

 Thanks for the update mnuno10!

[Ben Webster]

Hi mnuno10,

I had a controversy discussion with one of my friends:

We both agreed that a control point (app) like JPLay iOS can have a huge impact on sound quality. One of the reasons could be different protocols (e. g. UPnP vs. Open Home).

But he thought when closing the App on iPhone/iPad there will be no difference anymore.

I think there will be still a difference based on which App started the play.

Who is right and why?

Kind regards
Ben 

[stefano_mbp]

@Ben Webster UPNP and OpenHome are very similar, OpenHome was created by Linn as a UPNP extension.

Here you can find a detailed explanation of both.

That said, neither upnp nor openhome let the tracks pass through the control point, both send the tracks addresses to the renderer (one track at a time or the entire playlist) and the renderer will take care of requesting them from the server.

The advantage that JPlay for iOS can give is that of minimizing the network traffic necessary for the control point to receive updates from the renderer on the progress of the song, also to send the address of the next song to the renderer.

So, in the end, how can there be any difference in playback if the app is closed?

[Ben Webster]

@stefano_mbp thanks for your explanation. Yes, your are right and this is also my understanding. In theory there should be no difference between control points when they‘re switched off after selecting and playing the tracks. 
But I‘m quite sure there is a difference. And it‘s not only me who hear differences between control points after closing the app.

 

So there must be something more. 
 

That‘s why I‘m asking … especially @mnuno10.

[maxijazz]

3 hours ago, Ben Webster said:

So there must be something more. 

It is called "expectation bias".

[The Computer Audiophile]

35 minutes ago, maxijazz said:

It is called "expectation bias".

I expect that works both ways. 

[Ben Webster]

But not in a blind test 😀

[stefano_mbp]

This is what a renderer asks to a mediaserver

can be there a difference if this url was sent by app A or app B?

It is just a file address … not a file

[stefano_mbp]

7 minutes ago, Ben Webster said:

But not in a blind test

Which is the rate of right vs wrong answers? If around 50% … it means nothing

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, Ben Webster said:

But not in a blind test 😀

I assure you that people expecting to hear nothing, will hear nothing, blind or sighted. 
 

Back to the topic at hand. 

[Ben Webster]

For those you don‘t believe it: have you tested it? Did you hear differences without closing the app? 

[Ben Webster]

The question regarding the topic is: does it make sense (soundwise) to use the JPlay App when they close the app anyway.

[stefano_mbp]

1 minute ago, Ben Webster said:

they close the app anyway

App must be swiped off otherwise it works in the background …

how many tracks can you listen to swiping off the app?

[Ben Webster]

1 minute ago, stefano_mbp said:

App must be swiped off otherwise it works in the background …

how many tracks can you listen to swiping off the app?

Yes, of course, that‘s what I mean: close = swiped off. What else?

 

I can hear the whole playlist regardless how many tracks are in the list.

[stefano_mbp]

Just now, Ben Webster said:

can hear the whole playlist regardless how many tracks are in the list.

Really? Are you sure? Remember that JPlay is UPNP and not OpenHome

[Ben Webster]

Haven’t tried JPlay App yet. I use Kinsky (UPnP) and Kazoo/Linn App (both OpenHome).

 

In early days of Kinsky in combination with Linn DS only one track can be heard.

 

But I‘m using JPlay in dual PC mode and all apps above can play the whole play list even when I close („swipe off“) the app.

[stefano_mbp]

1 minute ago, Ben Webster said:

Haven’t tried JPlay App

 

1 minute ago, Ben Webster said:

But I‘m using JPlay in dual PC

Totally different things : the first is JPlay for iOS and the second is JPlay for Windows.

How can you think you can compare them?

[Ben Webster]

@stefano_mbp: I‘m not sure if you don‘t want to understand me or my posts are so confusing.

 

I use Kinsky/Kazzo/Linn App as a control point on iPhone/iPad and JPlay Femto on the Control PC in a dual PC mode with Control PC/Audio PC.

[stefano_mbp]

Just now, Ben Webster said:

JPlay Femto

This thread is about JPlay for iOS … am I wrong? JPlay Femto is, let me say, similar to HQPlayer, JRiver, Audirvana where their app is a remote command not a UPNP (or OpenHome) control point app … 

[Ben Webster]

I appreciate your try to explain me things you might think I didn‘t know.

 

But in my post above I asked an easy question of the differences (soundwise) of control point app like Kinsky/Kazoo/Linn/JPlay iOS Apps (when switched off) in combination with JPlay Femto.

 

I hope @Marcin_gps or @mnuno10can answer my question.

 

Have a nice evening.

[stefano_mbp]

2 minutes ago, Ben Webster said:

But in my post above I asked an easy question of the differences (soundwise) of control point app like Kinsky/Kazoo/Linn App (when switched off) in combination with JPlay Femto.

So this is the right section for you questions

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/forum/127-jplay-for-windows/

[mnuno10]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:49 PM, Ben Webster said:

I appreciate your try to explain me things you might think I didn‘t know.

 

But in my post above I asked an easy question of the differences (soundwise) of control point app like Kinsky/Kazoo/Linn/JPlay iOS Apps (when switched off) in combination with JPlay Femto.

 

I hope @Marcin_gps or @mnuno10can answer my question.

 

Have a nice evening.

I miss this message.
Regarding control points, I think they can affect SQ in two ways, even if they are closed(by killing the app). This is from my experience, but take in mind that this can vary from renderer to renderer, and I'm not sure that I can pass a blind test because all of this can be "expectation bias".
1- The first one is not that the control point will affect the SQ per se, but if a control point is using UPnP to send actions to a renderer and another control point is using OpenHome, that can lead to the first one have better SQ. That's because when using OpenHome, renderer has more work to do, as it has to keep track of the queue in order to play all the tracks. That's why some renderers you have worse SQ when using gapless, because renderer has to prepare the next track while playing the current one. In my tests OpenHome always sounded worse than normal UPnP. That's why I prefer to use UPnP and disable OpenHome(if possible). I remember that, in my old SOtM sMS-100, only the act of enabling OpenHome decreased SQ.
2 - There is something called eventing, that some control points can use to communicate with renderer. The way that this works is, instead of being the control point asking for the progress of the track(polling), is the renderer that communicates these actions to the control point. So control point has to register to receive events, and renderer will start sending them. If control point is killed there is not need to send events anymore and renderer can now avoid send them, leading to better SQ. In my tests eventing sounded worse than polling.

[Ben Webster]

2 hours ago, mnuno10 said:

I miss this message.
Regarding control points, I think they can affect SQ in two ways, even if they are closed(by killing the app). This is from my experience, but take in mind that this can vary from renderer to renderer, and I'm not sure that I can pass a blind test because all of this can be "expectation bias".
1- The first one is not that the control point will affect the SQ per se, but if a control point is using UPnP to send actions to a renderer and another control point is using OpenHome, that can lead to the first one have better SQ. That's because when using OpenHome, renderer has more work to do, as it has to keep track of the queue in order to play all the tracks. That's why some renderers you have worse SQ when using gapless, because renderer has to prepare the next track while playing the current one. In my tests OpenHome always sounded worse than normal UPnP. That's why I prefer to use UPnP and disable OpenHome(if possible). I remember that, in my old SOtM sMS-100, only the act of enabling OpenHome decreased SQ.
2 - There is something called eventing, that some control points can use to communicate with renderer. The way that this works is, instead of being the control point asking for the progress of the track(polling), is the renderer that communicates these actions to the control point. So control point has to register to receive events, and renderer will start sending them. If control point is killed there is not need to send events anymore and renderer can now avoid send them, leading to better SQ. In my tests eventing sounded worse than polling.

Many thanks for your long answer.

 

ad 1) I fully agree and can confirm.

 

ad 2) not sure if I get your point. Does that mean, that even if you closed the Control point, the Control PC still have events which try to reach the Control Point. If yes, it‘s clear, that the sounds get worse.

 

I guess JPlay iOS uses „polling“ and not „events“?