Are power conditioners or filters needed?

[Marcos Mazur]

If I use good quality equipment, like a good dac, a good amp and speakers (with good measurements) and a good acoustic treatment, do I really need a power conditioner or power regenerator? will I get sonic benefits? Don't good devices already have great filtering for noise or pollution that degrades the sound? Basically I don't know if I plug everything straight into the socket or use some ''filter''.

I think this question is valid and I think that many have it too, since spending money testing each product is not at all viable for me.

I've been researching recently about power conditioner, power filter and etc, I always think about not very expensive solutions to improve the quality of my setup or at least have stable power without much noise. 

When reading in other forums and reading reviews, it seems encouraging, but it is very relative and depends on the setup of each one. I see that the question is not as simple as saying whether ''need'' (or not) from the moment you identify ''a problem'' as noise, hum or audible ground loop in the sound, often the noise may not be very noticeable and we think everything is ok (with degraded sound quality), until we test a product like that.
Everything gets more confusing when we see that it's not enough just to buy a suitable power conditioner and ok, certain products alter the sound and can compress soundstage, bass or harm the treble, because the power is cut a little, the solution for this they say it's the ones' 'power regenerators'', but which are too expensive.

[fas42]

The cheapest way of finding out is by doing simple tests - put on an album which can sound good or bad to you, depending upon your mood, or how well the system is running, or whatever. Then switch off absolutely everything electrical in the house you can think of - has the SQ changed? Then plug in everything that draws strong power, or has lots of electronics in it, into the same circuit, and as close as possible to where the audio system is plugged in - and listen to that album. Again, has the SQ changed? That will tell you if power conditioning is of benefit, to you - the way to test whether a noise mitigation product is of value, to you, is obviously to repeat the above, with the item in place and working.

[cjf]

I would think that unless you have built your listening room and home electrical system from new using all the best techniques then a power conditioner could offer a few benefits. I have given up trying to use them between Amps and the wall but for Front-End components which draw very little power they seem to make a difference for the better. This assumes one us using a good power conditioner of course.

 

The other side effect/benefit of a Power conditioner is that you usually also gain some small form of surge protection out of the deal. But I take surge protection with a grain of salt. Ideally this should also be done way back at the breaker box also though. I suspect most big surge events comes from the power company end and less often from a lightning strike so if you have a surge protection device at the breaker the "hope" is that it will take the brunt of the hit and then when whatever remains from the surge finds its way to your audio gear the power conditioner might have a better chance of shrugging it off...maybe.

 

Good power conditioners aren't cheap and buying a Home Depot power strip will likely not be doing you any favors either so IMO one of the best places to "Try before you buy" would be from The Cable Co. They offer some good brands to pick from with in home trials and full return policies (Last time I used them at least).

[PeterG]

"Needed" is a funny word when discussing systems that cost 5 or 6 figures.  Most on this site could have spent a small fraction of what they actually did and had a very nice stereo, substantially better than any of their friends and family members.

 

I'm with cjf--borrow a conditioner from your local dealer or The Cable Co, then listen at home for a couple of days.  It took me just a few minutes to know that I could not possibly live without (haha) a Nordost QKore/Qbase

[beetlemania]

I added the Ayre L-5 line conditioner to my system ca. 2010. My ears/system/room, it removed a subtle “hash”, produced silent backgrounds. In turn, resolution and intelligibility seemed improved. Worth it to me. YMMV.

[fas42]

Electrical noise, originating in a variety of places both within the playback chain itself, and externally, are what severely handicaps a system from being able to produce convincing sound - in spite of what any measurements may say, your ears are telling you that something is wrong with what you are hearing; it just "sounds like a hifi!". That's what you need to get rid of, the telltale signs that spoil any chance of sustaining an immersive illusion.

 

The clues may be "subtle", but your brain has no trouble picking that they are part of the mix - if you want the full audio experience you need to do whatever it takes to eliminate the audible anomalies that are disturbing, when you're listening ... a good term to keep in mind, that is sometimes used, is "effortless"; a competent setup produces effortless sound - that is, it requires absolutely no effort on your part to be drawn into the musical world that is being presented; as soon as you need to concentrate, that's a giveaway that the SQ is below par.

[GrubTheHedgehog]

Yes.

[jiminlogansquare]

I think the experiment recommended by @fas42 makes a lot of sense if you are skeptical about whether or how much cleaning up the AC to your stereo might improve the sound.

 

I think though that if you determine that AC noise (from other stuff in your house) is a problem, you might look at having a dedicated AC line installed for your listening room before purchasing a power conditioner or filter. I did that well before investing in any sort of filter equipment, and it made a huge positive difference.

 

I believe a dedicated AC line is the straightest path to getting your audio system segregated from other household noisemakers like the fridge, furnace fan, etc, and it worked wonders for me. It also avoids the risk of fixing one problem but creating another (as you noted), because it's not adding anything to the power supply or equipment chain - dedicated AC is purely subtractive, as in subtracting external sources of noise on the power.

 

That all said, filters in my experience can provide another layer of goodness. I recently added the Shunyata Everest filter device (see my profile) on the theory that local noise from my stereo itself - including most particularly my sonicTransporter server and its noisy switching power transformer - was a continuing problem. Getting a handle on isolating the various components of my stereo *from each other* made  another significant difference - though *not* as big a difference as getting the whole system isolated from noise throughout my house by means of the dedicated AC line. Also, the dedicated AC line cost a LOT less than the Shunyata device, and a lot less than many other highly regarded AC filter devices. So that's my two-cents' worth.

[One and a half]

Agreed on dedicated line and simple passive transformer, like Topaz, and similar.

[GregWormald]

I like @fas42's experiment. Just to add to it, try listening at 3 or 4 in the morning when industrial processes using power are at a minimum.

 

Note that it also depends on the power supplies of the equipment. When I had less expensive equipment than currently I found a power line filter made a bit of a difference, not much, but worth the cost to me.

 

The manufacturers of my new equipment say they have extensive power supply filtering and modulation and no more is useful—and they've tried them. Since the upgrades I haven't experimented myself but just left it on the power line.

[skids929]

I have tried both over the years, straight to the wall with everything, straight to the wall with just amps and everything else conditioned, and now with all equipment conditioned. My assessment of those systems without conditioning was they were less consistent for some reason. Some days it would sound fantastic and others just ok. 

 

My latest conditioner has been fantastic..Puritan Audio labs (discussed here quite a bit)...I've had them for over a year and they perform VERY well. I recently added that Ground master and that was utterly mind blowing what it did to my system. Pretty much the equivalent of adding a better DAC. 

 

My advice is to just try different units and see what works best for you, let your ear decide. Like others have mentioned, the surge protection aspect is also an added bonus. I typically unplug my system during a storm but in the event you forget it's nice peace of mind. 

[audiobomber]

I have used a power conditioner on my line level components for years, and it cleaned up the sound, but plugging my power amps into the conditioner strangled dynamics. That is until I purchased the Furman ELITE-15 PF I. The Power Factor technology allowed me to plug my 100W monoblocks in, and the result was like a power amp upgrade. Now I wish I had bought their IT-REF 15I instead, but it cost more than twice as much, and I wasn't sure how a conditioner would affect my system.

 

Aside from the sonic benefits, it is reassuring to have surge protection on my audio gear.

[audiobomber]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:02 PM, fas42 said:

The cheapest way of finding out is by doing simple tests - put on an album which can sound good or bad to you, depending upon your mood, or how well the system is running, or whatever. Then switch off absolutely everything electrical in the house you can think of - has the SQ changed? Then plug in everything that draws strong power, or has lots of electronics in it, into the same circuit, and as close as possible to where the audio system is plugged in - and listen to that album. Again, has the SQ changed? That will tell you if power conditioning is of benefit, to you - the way to test whether a noise mitigation product is of value, to you, is obviously to repeat the above, with the item in place and working.

This won't tell you what a good power conditioner can do. There's a lot more going on than just reduced electrical traffic. Check out the technologies that Furman offers for example, Linear Filtration, Power Factor, Regulation, etc: 

https://furmanpower.com/series-multi-stage-protection/

[fas42]

A more sophisticated device may alter the waveforms, by adding or subtracting harmonics and changing the power factor, say. So, yes, by manipulating the power fed to the gear you may get improved SQ; this will depend on how well the power supplies of the audio components are engineered. The point here is, that the manufacturer of that audio kit should have done his homework on this, especially if it is considerably more expensive!

[semente]

Power regeneration sounds logical in principle, assuming that one's mains has serious issues.

Whether there are side-effects to using one, I can't say...

 

https://www.purepoweraps.com/regen.htm