T+A DAC 200

[droffen]

@OE333

Can I ran the displays of MP200 & DAC200 (HA200) 12 hours a day turned on?

Or is it better to turn them off to avoid burn-in?

Same question for the meters?

[camott]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:41 AM, OE333 said:

I have included the HT Pas-Through in my latest firmware version. I am currently testing it and I think I can release it by the end of this week.

 

Please note:

T+A will include the HT Pass-Through in the next official firmware version V 1.20.

This official version will also be available in short time and it can be installed with the help of a MP200.

 

Hi,

 

Any progress/news on this front? I was able to build my own E-Link programming cable, all with parts from Amazon prime, and verify connectivity with the E_Link_UpdateTool so eagerly awaiting your extended firmware update on GitHub!

 

(Side note - I initially tried running the tool via a windows VM but it only successfully connected on 1 of every 5 or so attempts. Not sure why exactly but not surprising).

 

[OE333]

On 1/16/2024 at 5:06 PM, droffen said:

@OE333

Can I ran the displays of MP200 & DAC200 (HA200) 12 hours a day turned on?

Or is it better to turn them off to avoid burn-in?

Same question for the meters?

 

In general all electronic displays are wear parts. They normally have a life time of several thousand operating hours and they will last longer, the more their brightness setting is turned down.

The normal life span (defined as the point where the pixel brightness is 30% down) of a white OLED display is about 20.000..30.000 operating hours. This translates to about 3,5 years at 24/7 operation and to about 20 years at a daily use of 4 hours.

 

To prolong the life span of the displays, the 200 series has a "temporary" display mode which turns on the display when a user interaction occurs and turns it off afterwards. With the "temporary" display mode turned on, the display will have a VERY log life time.

 

An other option is to not use the brightest display settings. Using a brightness setting 4  (instead of 7) will increase the display life by about a factor of 2.

 

A final note: if necessary the display can be exchanged quite easily by plug&play - no soldering or any tricky things.

 

 

The meter illuminations is done by LEDs with a very long life time - no need to turn them down.

[OE333]

35 minutes ago, camott said:

 

Hi,

 

Any progress/news on this front? I was able to build my own E-Link programming cable, all with parts from Amazon prime, and verify connectivity with the E_Link_UpdateTool so eagerly awaiting your extended firmware update on GitHub!

 

(Side note - I initially tried running the tool via a windows VM but it only successfully connected on 1 of every 5 or so attempts. Not sure why exactly but not surprising).

 

 

Hi @camott,

sorry that the new FW is not on Github yet, but I caught a bronchitis and was not feeling well during the last days - so I was not able to finish and upload the FW.  But it will be available within the coming days - promised.

 

The reason why the tool will not run reliably on a VM is that communicating with the DAC200 is extremely time-critical.

The tool mimics the T+A E-Link bus communication, which is similar to, but not identical to RS232. Some timings must be precise with a very small tolerance of only a few microseconds. This is not possible with a relatively slow and not just true real-time capable VM. This is by the way the reason why only some specific USB -> RS232 converters will function properly.

 

... and congrats to your self made programming cable. If it finishes the tool's connection check without errors, everything is good and programming should work without problems.

 

[camott]

18 minutes ago, OE333 said:

 

Hi @camott,

sorry that the new FW is not on Github yet, but I caught a bronchitis and was not feeling well during the last days - so I was not able to finish and upload the FW.  But it will be available within the coming days - promised.

 

The reason why the tool will not run reliably on a VM is that communicating with the DAC200 is extremely time-critical.

The tool mimics the T+A E-Link bus communication, which is similar to, but not identical to RS232. Some timings must be precise with a very small tolerance of only a few microseconds. This is not possible with a relatively slow and not just true real-time capable VM. This is by the way the reason why only some specific USB -> RS232 converters will function properly.

 

... and congrats to your self made programming cable. If it finishes the tool's connection check without errors, everything is good and programming should work without problems.

 

 

Sorry to hear you have not been feeling well and hope you are feeling better. All good, was just curious how things were going.

 

Yes I figured that the issue with the VM was a timing/latency issue given what you had previously mentioned re other chipsets.

 

Hardest part of making the cable was getting a solid connection to the ethernet wire - some are tinned and do NOT take well to solder! Also, instead of directly soldering the ethernet wires/resistors to the TTL pins, I found it easier to solder them to individual 2.54mm dupont connector wires, and then one can simply plug those on to the TTL pins.

 

Thanks for the quick response.

[camott]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:12 AM, OE333 said:

To bypass the pre amp for analog input signals is not possible. We need the pre-amo to generate a balanced signal for the XLR output from the unbalanced RCA input. This is why the pre-amp stage is always in the signal path for the RCA input.

 

Curious - what is currently happening with the current firmware when one selects Analog input and also has pre-out set to "line"? I tried it and the volume is not adjustable, just like any other input set to line out. 

[Apollo]

53 minutes ago, camott said:

 

Curious - what is currently happening with the current firmware when one selects Analog input and also has pre-out set to "line"? I tried it and the volume is not adjustable, just like any other input set to line out. 

 

 

In system settings (page 55 of manual):

PRE Output This menu item allows you to set the analog outputs (ANALOG OUT 1 and 2) to a fixed
output level (LINE), or to an variable output level (VARIABLE) that can be adjusted using
the volume buttons on the remote control and the volume knob on the DAC 200.
 For operation in combination with active loudspeakers or a power amplifier, e.g. the
A 200, use only the VARIABLE setting.
Otherwise, it may lead to overloading and resulting damage of the
connected loudspeakers.

[Patu]

I picked up DAC200 for a home demo last night. It's a new unit so it doesn't even have 24 hours on it but after warming it up, it has already played like a true champion. I currently use Holo Spring 3 with Holo Serene preamp and DAC200, alone, is doing many things better than this combo. I'll need to do some more auditioning before making any decisions though. I upsample to DSD256 with HQP and have DAC200 connected directly to active ATC SCM50ASL speakers. 

 

Anyway, question about the display of DAC200. Is there any way to display the volume level with bigger font? Now we have tons of useless (IMO) information on the display all the time. I mean, not useless, but something you don't need to see frequently. Mostly you need to see the volume level when using the DAC200 as preamp also. Now the number is so small that I can't see it from the sofa. Luckily the volume bar helps a little but it's not as accurate. If this is not possible currently, maybe add the possibility in future firmware update, to change the input text to volume level or just show the volume level number with bigger font when you switch it, for a short time? Thanks!

[Hydrology]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:08 PM, OE333 said:

 

Here a few hints:

 

As far as I know the Logitech remotes support T+A devices. On the Logitech compatibility site the DAC200 is not yet listed, but you can find some other T+A devices like PA-1200R and DAC 8. The IR commands for all T+A devices are the same - so the Logitech codes for DAC8 and PA-1200R should also work for DAC200.

If that doesn't work, I would recommend to contact Logitech directly. Logitech could then contact T+A for assistance bringing the T+A codes to the Logitech IR code data base.

 

Learning remotes:

Most IR remotes send one specific IR telegram for a button press and repeat this command at a certain rate (normally every 100ms or so).

The T+A telegrams are a bit more complex. They consist of a START command, a specific button command (which is repeated every 120ms as long as the button is pressed) and after releasing the button an END-command.

Start and end commands are there to make the remote operation quicker and more responsive - for example the motorized volume potentiometers of T+A amps will immediately stop turning when the Volume-button is released. Without the STOP command the pot would keep on turning until the IR receiver detects that no more IR telegrams arrive which lasts 100...200ms and during this time the motor-pot would continue to turn and create a little "overshoot".

 

Unfortunately many remotes have problems to learn such more complex IR telegrams - they normally can only learn simple IR telegrams consisting of only one single repeated code.

 

Fortunately the START and STOP commands are not necessarily required. The T+A devices will work even when Start & Stop commands are missing. Learning the T+A codes without Start & Stop codes will normally work with all learning remotes. To capture the T+A IR telegrams without start & stop codes you can proceed as follows:

 

1.) start the learning process on the learning remote

2.) cover the T+A IR transmitter (at the front of the T+A remote) with one hand

3.) now press the button to be learnt on the T+A remote control (IR transmitter still covered)

4.) after a short time (one second or so) quickly remove your hand from the T+A IR transmitter

5.) the learning remote will now only "see" the repeated button commands (the start code was sent when the IR transmitter was still covered)

6.) release the button on the T+A remote when the learning remote control  signals that the code was correctly captured

 

Repeat the above process for all buttons that you need.

 

Note:

Sometimes it can happen, that the hand is removed just in the middle of a IR telegram. In such a case the learning process might not be successful. So when the learned code for a button does not work, just try the process above again - the chance to remove the hand just during a transmission is not very likely, because the length of the IR telegram is 10 times shorter than the pauses in between the telegrams. So the chance of removing the hand at the "wrong" time is just 1:10

 

 

 

Hi OE333,
Ive downloaded all the files you mentioned but still having trouble with integrating them into my remote(s).
I have a new Remote Two (by Unfolded Circle), but thought I would get them into my day to day remote first (Logitech Elite), but still having issues.

The only codes Ive managed to get working are Volume UP and DOWN - they slightly overshoot (although you have explained why that is) but they function enough for me to work with.
The codes I really need would be discrete POWER ON, discrete POWER OFF, discrete USB input and discrete SPDIF 1 (COAX) - the last two if at all possible.

Ive been having some success with POWER ON but additional press just puts the unit into MUTE, so ideally would prefer DISCRETE POWER CODES for ON and OFF (my new remote doesnt yet support LONG PRESS commands)

I would be very appreciative if you were able to copy/paste the exact codes that you know work with the DAC200 from the T+A pdf list so at least I can focus on getting those specifc to work, rather than spending time with codes that seem to take my down a different rabbit hole!

Thanking you in advance!

 

[OE333]

23 hours ago, Patu said:

Is there any way to display the volume level with bigger font? Now we have tons of useless (IMO) information on the display all the time. I mean, not useless, but something you don't need to see frequently. Mostly you need to see the volume level when using the DAC200 as preamp also. Now the number is so small that I can't see it from the sofa. Luckily the volume bar helps a little but it's not as accurate. If this is not possible currently, maybe add the possibility in future firmware update, to change the input text to volume level or just show the volume level number with bigger font when you switch it, for a short time? Thanks!

 

 

Good idea. 👍

I will think about it and try to integrate it into the next firmware revision.

 

 

[Patu]

1 minute ago, OE333 said:

 

 

Good idea. 👍

I will think about it and try to integrate it into the next firmware revision.

 

 

Awesome, thanks!

 

My Holo Spring 3 + Holo Serene combo is having difficult times now after introducing the DAC200 to the setup. It's obvious that this is a special DAC and an extremely good piece of gear. The sound is very open, articulate, holographic and clear. It has great ability to dig information from different layers of music, if this makes any sense. Somehow it just sounds very right. And even though the sound is crystal clear, it doesn't get fatiguing. Only very dynamic and lively. Spring 3 sounds clearly smoother and relaxed but then again, loses in soundstaging and clarity and music doesn't sound as "layered" with it. Both are great though but DAC200 has glued me to the sweet spot for now. 

[camott]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:15 AM, OE333 said:

Good idea. 👍

I will think about it and try to integrate it into the next firmware revision.

 

This is a great suggestion. I also find it very difficult to see the current volume level when sitting in normal position and using the remote for, well, volume control. 

[MikePid]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:12 AM, OE333 said:

 

There are two mains fuses ion the DAC200 (see picture below).

The value for the fuses is printed on the PCB (or on a sticker next to the fuse).

 

According to my records the value of the fuse for the analog power supply for 115V mains voltage is   T 630mA L 250V~

For 230V this fuse is T 315mA L 250V~

 

The input mains fuse (TR5 type) is T 2A L 250V~ for all mains voltages.

 

 

Based on the posts on this forum, and the opinions of some well-respected super-audiophiles who have contributed here, I have a second-hand T+A DAC 200 on its way now 🙂.  I have a nice HQPlayer setup too, so I'm looking forward to let this DAC shine!  Plus it will become my line stage for my phono side of the system, simplifying that part by removing a couple of boxes and cables.

 

I was bitten by the SR fuse bug several years ago (starting with Blue, then Orange, and now Purple everywhere except for 2 Masters).  Has anyone tried upgrading the analog power fuse in this DAC to see if it does anything?  Or would the power supply design not be sensitive to the fuse choice?  The DAC that I will be retiring responded very well to fuses and has a Master in it now.  (I suppose I could answer my own question soon, as I have a spare S 315mA Orange lying around (assuming the DAC 200 uses the small size)).

 

Mike

[MikePid]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:33 PM, OE333 said:

 

The screws for the feet are screwed into threads in the bottom plate from the inside of the case.

If the feet are unscrewed, the screws will protrude from the bottom side as studs.

 

There is a certain chance that the screws might become loose when unscrewing (or even more when re-fitting) the feet.

If these screws loosen, they might touch the circuit board and cause short circuits.

Especially the screw at the rear left (close to the mains socket) might cause a short between live mains and the case.

 

So my strong advice: don't touch the feet - or if you really want to, open the case to check on the inside that no shorts exist before connecting the device to mains again.

 

Or try something like SR MIGs, which don't screw in.  After my soon-to-arrive DAC 200 settles, I will try it on MIG 3.0 feet and report back.  I'll also see if a Tranquility Pod makes a difference.  (Once a tweaker, always a tweaker 😉)

[Adyc]

I am new to T+A 200. Does 200 accept DSD 512 from Lumin U2 USB output? Thanks for the help.

[wklie]

19 hours ago, Adyc said:

I am new to T+A 200. Does 200 accept DSD 512 from Lumin U2 USB output? Thanks for the help.

 

Confirmation from a user of both:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/lumin-u2-mini-released/199462/233?u=wklie

 

[nekky]

Hi everyone, I am a very happy DAC 200 owner for some time now, and just today the HDMI ARC input seems to have quit working. We use the system daily for TV and then switch to USB for streaming. I have had zero issues until now and it has been operational in the exact same setup for months. 
 

Normally, when switching to the ARC input, the DAC 200 will display “activating HDMI ARC mode”, and after a short delay, there is the sound of a relay clicking and the screen will display that there is a 48k PCM signal being fed via HDMI. Now, I don’t get that click anymore, so it will just go into HDMI ARC mode but not receive a signal. Have tried everything I can think of, including unplugging/replugging the cable, turning on and off the DAC 200, switching the outputs on the tv to try and get it to actually send the signal, etc. I don’t think the problem is the TV, which is an LG C1. 
 

Any suggestions or might someone point me to the proper support method? I know I should contact my dealer and I will once he is awake this morning, but this thread is too helpful not to ask here, sorry :)

[Apollo]

2 minutes ago, nekky said:

Hi everyone, I am a very happy DAC 200 owner for some time now, and just today the HDMI ARC input seems to have quit working. We use the system daily for TV and then switch to USB for streaming. I have had zero issues until now and it has been operational in the exact same setup for months. 
 

Normally, when switching to the ARC input, the DAC 200 will display “activating HDMI ARC mode”, and after a short delay, there is the sound of a relay clicking and the screen will display that there is a 48k PCM signal being fed via HDMI. Now, I don’t get that click anymore, so it will just go into HDMI ARC mode but not receive a signal. Have tried everything I can think of, including unplugging/replugging the cable, turning on and off the DAC 200, switching the outputs on the tv to try and get it to actually send the signal, etc. I don’t think the problem is the TV, which is an LG C1. 
 

Any suggestions or might someone point me to the proper support method? I know I should contact my dealer and I will once he is awake this morning, but this thread is too helpful not to ask here, sorry :)

 

Unfortunately my HDMI input also failed on me ('No HDMI installed' error message).  My DAC is at the factory for repair.

Dirk

[nekky]

2 minutes ago, Apollo said:

 

Unfortunately my HDMI input also failed on me ('No HDMI installed' error message).  My DAC is at the factory for repair.

Dirk

Thanks for the reply, Dirk. Were you using ARC and switching back and forth daily? Did it have to go all the way to ze Mutterland?

[Apollo]

28 minutes ago, nekky said:

Thanks for the reply, Dirk. Were you using ARC and switching back and forth daily? Did it have to go all the way to ze Mutterland?

I am living in Belgium, so it did go to Germany (neighbouring country).

 

I was not using it daily, far from actually.  Mainly used when grandchilderen are staying over.

Using my DAC200 98% for music.  hoping it will return soon, as I miss it.

[nekky]

2 minutes ago, Apollo said:

I am living in Belgium, so it did go to Germany (neighbouring country).

 

I was not using it daily, far from actually.  Mainly used when grandchilderen are staying over.

Using my DAC200 98% for music.  hoping it will return soon, as I miss it.

Sorry I should have noticed from the flag next to your username. Mine will likely have a farther journey if this becomes the case. I will continue to test today but I fear it will have to go back for warranty. My dealer is great but truthfully I am not expecting a loaner while I wait; going without the hifi for a time will be a bit of a bummer as I will be DACless. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, nekky said:

Sorry I should have noticed from the flag next to your username. Mine will likely have a farther journey if this becomes the case. I will continue to test today but I fear it will have to go back for warranty. My dealer is great but truthfully I am not expecting a loaner while I wait; going without the hifi for a time will be a bit of a bummer as I will be DACless. 

T+A does have a North American presence in the US. Fingers crossed it can be sent there for faster service.

[Patu]

Sorry to hear about the problems with HDMi. I use my LG OLED C1's optical output to DAC200 and it has worked flawlessly for the few weeks I've owned my DAC200. 

[AlwaysListening]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:24 PM, OE333 said:

Question1 - Control of DAC200/HA200 from a PC

As already mentioned, it is possible to control the DAC/HA 200 via a serial RS232 connection.

The RS232 control interface is used internally by T+A for production and QA tests in the factory but it could be used to implement a remote control of the DAC from a PC. Unfortunately there is no official T+A documentation of the RS232 interface pulicly available.

 

For further information I have made a short list (see attachment) of commands implemented in the DAC that could be used to control the DAC.

 

As you can see, the commands are plain ASCII text commands. These commands can be sent from any computer with the help of a terminal program (eg. "Putty" or Windows "Hyperterm").

Sending for example the command VOL 50 will set the volume control of the DAC to 50%.

In the same way all the other functions (input switching, output ON/OFF etc.) can be controlled.

 

Currently there is no APP with graphical user interface available for controlling the DAC - just the ASCII text cammands from a terminal.

It would be quite easy to make a simple graphical user interface for the basic control of the DAC.

Question: Is there a demand for such a GUI control application ????

 

Control over USB instead of RS232

Technically it would be possible to send the commands over USB instead of a separate RS232 connection. To achieve this the USB receiver firmware needs to be extended to handle control commands. Such an extention of the firmware might be quite expensive and I don't think that it will be implemented in the near futrure.

 

DAC200_RS232_Commands.pdf 86.24 kB · 46 downloads

 

I doubt I'm alone in my appreciation for the time you take to post such detailed information to the forum - thank you.

 

As I edge closer to retirement and plan my final audio system, a source with pre-amp capability connected to active speakers is my firm preference. The DAC 200 would be top of the list if there was volume control via Roon.

 

While I understand the current T+A firmware situation, I simply don't want a return to juggling a tablet and device remote while listening to music.

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, AlwaysListening said:

While I understand the current T+A firmware situation, I simply don't want a return to juggling a tablet and device remote while listening to music.

I’ve gone the opposite direction lately. I want a remote for volume changes. I hate grabbing my iPad, swiping / unlocking the screen, adjusting the volume. 
 

I prefer to just grab the remote and hit volume. 
 

Even better, in my immersive system I control the volume with a component that sits next to my listening position. I just reach over and turn the large dial.