Misleading Measurements

[mav52]

On 10/31/2020 at 3:36 PM, 992Sam said:

Late to the thread, and been reading thru it with interest, but add me to the camp of those who feel Amir and his site have an agenda, and are completely anti-audiophile ..  Seems like anyone going on there trying to disagree finds himself banned at some point... so the site is essentially a preaching to the choir echo chamber for those who essentially equate an iPhone DAC with a hi-fi DAC just because it measures the same in certain parameters. 

He has always had an agenda.  His site, its agree with him or hit the door.  I take that site for what it is.

[mav52]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:34 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Nobody is banned from here quickly without egregious rules violations. 

Got that right and most bring it on themselves to "just push it". 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, mav52 said:

Got that right and most bring it on themselves to "just push it". 

Yes, exactly. In fact, in 99% of the cases people express frustration with me because I don't ban people quick enough.

[992Sam]

51 minutes ago, mav52 said:

He has always had an agenda.  His site, its agree with him or hit the door.  I take that site for what it is.

 

49 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Yes, exactly. In fact, in 99% of the cases people express frustration with me because I don't ban people quick enough.

 

 

yeah, I know... I was a victim of such a ban because I refused to bow down and worship on the alter of measurements..

 

I too run two different very active Facebook chat groups, as well as moderator on a major aviation message board... you get people that are obsessed with banning someone, that isn't someone you want in a position of power..  freedom of expression is critical to having a healthy and vibrant online community. 

[pkane2001]

Hey, what a great discussion for an objective sub-forum -- let's bash the other site that has no-one left here to defend themselves.

[992Sam]

22 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Hey, what a great discussion for an objective sub-forum -- let's bash the other site that has no-one left here to defend themselves.

Well at least you can post something like this and not get banned here....  if a guy posts the equivalent over there, they're gone! out! ... later..

 

[kumakuma]

23 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Hey, what a great discussion for an objective sub-forum -- let's bash the other site that has no-one left here to defend themselves.

 

From what I've seen so far, the main use of this sub-forum is for subjectivists to complain about objectivists.

 

Don't see a lot of folks using it for it's intended purpose. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

Don't see a lot of folks using it for it's intended purpose. 

I agree. It frequently seems like removing the stage for objectivists to talk to subjectivists, removes their motivation to discuss things. 

[kumakuma]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I agree. It frequently seems like removing the stage for objectivists to talk to subjectivists, removes their motivation to discuss things. 

 

Or perhaps they just don't spend time on this site anymore...

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

Or perhaps they just don't spend time on this site anymore...

I'd say removing the stage caused them to leave.

 

<sarcasm> If one can't preach to others, why would one want to do anything at all. </sarcasm>

[pkane2001]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'd say removing the stage caused them to leave.

 

<sarcasm> If one can't preach to others, why would one want to do anything at all. </sarcasm>

 

Your sarcasm clearly shows why so few objectively-minded people remain here. What you've created is a really hostile environment for anyone that doesn't agree with the subjective majority here, and I can certainly understand why others are no longer participating.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

 

Your sarcasm clearly shows why so few objectively-minded people remain here. What you've created is a really hostile environment for anyone that doesn't agree with the subjective majority here, and I can certainly understand why others are no longer participating.

I agree. It can be hard for objectivists to show a sense of humor. 

 

Creating a special area where objectivists can't be bothered by subjective myths is so hostile. Said nobody ever. Oh wait, you just did.

[pkane2001]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I agree. It can be hard for objectivists to show a sense of humor. 

 

Creating a special area where objectivists can't be bothered by subjective myths is so hostile. Said nobody ever. Oh wait, you just did.

 

Sense of humor? Nah, it's not funny. It's tiring to have every post drowned in the same exact set of replies by the same set of individuals. Every piece of information shared turning into a personal attack because the subjective majority disagrees. I've tried. Hostile? You bet.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

 

Sense of humor? Nah, it's not funny. It's tiring to have every post drowned in the same exact set of replies by the same set of individuals. Every piece of information shared turning into a personal attack because the subjective majority disagrees. I've tried. Hostile? You bet.

Every reported post with a personal attack is removed and every person attacking others is warned then banned. 

 

In this objective forum I happily remove all kinds of stuff that shouldn't be here. 

[pkane2001]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Every reported post with a personal attack is removed and every person attacking others is warned then banned. 

 

In this objective forum I happily remove all kinds of stuff that shouldn't be here. 

 

That's great. But I don't feel like reporting every post, every irrelevant reply that has nothing to do with the topic or every repeat of the same tired discussion that has no reason to exist in an objective forum (including this whole discussion). I don't think I've reported a single post since I joined here, and I don't plan on starting now. 

[danadam]

34 minutes ago, 992Sam said:

freedom of expression is critical to having a healthy and vibrant online community.

Ah... so that's what your "slave shop factories" comment was. 🤦‍♂️

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

I don't think I've reported a single post since I joined here, and I don't plan on starting now.

 

That's a bit rich. Complain about personal attacks, but never notify the person who could do something about it in order to stop the behavior. It's usually a couple of offenders, so stopping them would eliminate the need to report, "every post, every irrelevant reply that has nothing to do with the topic or every repeat of the same tired discussion that has no reason to exist in an objective forum."

[992Sam]

1 minute ago, danadam said:

Ah... so that's what your "slave shop factories" comment was. 🤦‍♂️

 

it was a statement of pure truth...  there is no doubt, whatsoever that a majority of workers in Chinese factories, especially electronics factories are borderline slaves... certainly by contrast to US, Japan, EU and other labor markets..   But to attack their limitless source of cheap, knockoff, and intellectual rights disregarded product hit a soft spot clearly.  

[pkane2001]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

That's a bit rich. Complain about personal attacks, but never notify the person who could do something about it in order to stop the behavior. It's usually a couple of offenders, so stopping them would eliminate the need to report, "every post, every irrelevant reply that has nothing to do with the topic or every repeat of the same tired discussion that has no reason to exist in an objective forum."

 

No, Chris, I didn't complain.  I explained why this sub-forum is as dead as it is. Nobody wants the constant aggravation.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

Nobody wants the constant aggravation.

I'll put it another way. Nobody in the objective camp wants to lift a finger to stop the constant aggravation. It isn't about being a complainer, it's about helping members of a community.

 

We have many threads that are hundreds of pages without any issues. The reason is that people use the report post function and the offending posts are removed, the offenders are warned, and life goes on. 

[pkane2001]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'll put it another way. Nobody in the objective camp wants to lift a finger to stop the constant aggravation. It isn't about being a complainer, it's about helping members of a community.

 

We have many threads that are hundreds of pages without any issues. The reason is that people use the report post function and the offending posts are removed, the offenders are warned, and life goes on. 

 

Believe what you want, Chris. The reason nobody is left here from the objective side is not because they all wanted to argue with subjectivists. It's because no productive discussion can occur the way this forum is structured. Objective discussions are alive and thriving elsewhere, even in a complete absence of subjectivists.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Believe what you want, Chris. The reason nobody is left here from the objective side is not because they all wanted to argue with subjectivists. It's because no productive discussion can occur the way this forum is structured. Objective discussions are alive and thriving elsewhere, even in a complete absence of subjectivists.

I know some feelings / egos were hurt.

[pkane2001]

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I know some feelings / egos were hurt.

 

I'm sure some were. Others left or stopped participating for the reasons I've stated. 

[fas42]

2 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

 It's because no productive discussion can occur the way this forum is structured. Objective discussions are alive and thriving elsewhere, even in a complete absence of subjectivists.

 

I find the really productive discussion to occur when people attempt to come to grips with what causes playback to be subjectively engaging or not, in spite of what measurements show. The two sides in the endless audio arguments unfortunately both believe in 'magic'; for the first lot it's expensive doodahs accompanied by meaningless claims, for the other lot it's meaningless numbers derived from expensive instruments.

[pkane2001]

24 minutes ago, fas42 said:

I find the really productive discussion to occur when people attempt to come to grips with what causes playback to be subjectively engaging or not, in spite of what measurements show. The two sides in the endless audio arguments unfortunately both believe in 'magic'; for the first lot it's expensive doodahs accompanied by meaningless claims, for the other lot it's meaningless numbers derived from expensive instruments.

 

Yes, Frank, you are completely above the fray, believing in no magic at all ;)