Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[matthias]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 9:44 PM, FredM said:

 

As mentioned in the opening post, I was intrigued by the importance to match the source output format with the ‘native’ format of the DAC chip/module. An recent article from 6Moons goes in more detail, some snippets:

• “But when a DAC runs its own upsampler as the vast majority does but still allows you to defeat it, comparing it to the MU1's own filter can painfully reveal the resolution losses of generic on-chip upsamplers.”
• “ .. helps offload a DAC's heavy calculations when the latter converts music data from the digital into the analog domain.”
• “Throughout the listening period we switched between TotalDAC and T+A DAC 8 and each time found the TotalDAC in non-oversampling mode to be the preferred partner.”

 

Specifically regarding the Grimm MU1 server/streamer, for me it ticks all the boxes, and more. Perhaps in the Netherlands we’re spoiled, Grimm is well respected and the MU1 is reckoned as a state-of-the-art digital source (the Dutch site hifi.nl has even covered the MU1 in three in depth articles). Some other insights from the latest 6Moons review:

• "In Grimm's Eindhoven shop they spent a lot of time and effort perfecting a switching power supply which became a 2-storied affair. It is prepped for future expansions and was developed using jitter measurements on the audio clock.”
•  “The maximum sample rate for S/PDIF is 192kHz. USB supports 384kHz but eliminates a clock signal. S/PDIF's embedded clock signal meeting the MU1's superior clock is sonically far more relevant than sample rates above 192kHz!”
• “Compared to the Taiko SGM Extreme … the MU1 costs 2.5 times less, weighs 1/10th … and already stands out for its remarkably effortless listening quality.”

 

The Grimm MU1 in action, on top of a rather exclusive platform 😉

 

 

I’ve had the opportunity to listen at the MU1 on three occasions, leaving me (and others) nothing less than astonished with the impact of dynamics and accuracy and yet beautiful stress less sound (sets from €40k to well over €100k). Unfortunately it’s not my expertise to (even try) to describe a sound, I’ll just keep admiring those who can 😊.

 

For me the MU1 has all the advantages of an one box solution (synergy, in-house end to end design), without the disadvantage: upgrade flexibility. As I have no relevant electronic or software DIY skills myself, Grimm has a good track record supporting its customers with future upgrades for their products. This is very comforting in a digital area where new discoveries and improvements are a constant.

 

Oh dear.. I almost forgot, as @Nenon, @RickyV and @beautiful music have already requested, here's a link 😘

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/grimm/

 

 

Interesting that 6moons did not perform a listening comparison vs Taiko Extreme.......

 

Matt

[matthias]

42 minutes ago, McNulty said:

I agree if you read between the lines it appears that they didn’t include a direct comparison with the Extreme on purpose. Based on the price difference between the Grimm and the Extreme, a comparison of the MU1 with the Innuos Statement seems fairer.

 

.......or a comparison with the upcoming Taiko "Mini extreme" which costs about 50 to 60% of the Extreme.

 

Matt

[matthias]

On 4/10/2020 at 5:19 PM, Doh said:

.......however i am afraid i was severely underwhelmed, although there was a lot of attention on it, lots of people in room and a presentation going on.

 

I can only think the circuit was tweaked since then as the sound was cold, thin and uninvolving at that time, details sure but .......

 

Similar my impressions when visiting the Grimm room at HE Munich in the last years.

I never could endure listening to the LS1 speakers.

 

Matt

 

[matthias]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:39 PM, TheAttorney said:

But Covid restrictions has meant that my intended 3-way comparison of MU1, Innuos Statement and Taiko Mini Extreme have been pushed into the new year.

 

Interesting to include in your comparison would be a source with a good USB output into a Chord Hugo M Scaler.

Basically the MU1 is an Intel NUC with a Grimm reclocking/up-/downsampling board and AES/SPDIF output.

 

Matt

[matthias]

34 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

At the dealer's, the MU1's AES output will be compared to the Statement's and Extreme's USB outputs (both top notch apparently and not needing additional re-clockers etc).

 

Which software player(s) and DAC(s) will you use for the comparisons?

Will you play from Qobuz and/or local files?

Certainly you know from WBF that the Extreme sounds much better with its own player(TAS, which is in Beta) than with Roon.

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

What I absolutely dislike about the MU1 is that it is more or less bound to Roon.

 

Matt

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

Well, as Roon has the best UI bar far, that's a good thing - AS LONG AS the MU1 with Roon can beat competing servers with competing apps. I happen to have a lifetime Roon license, but currently only using for background listening.

 

There's some speculation that the Grimm team are considering writing their own app (as well as an internal DAC module and probably all sorts of other goodies). But I can't rely on speculation and good intentions, so my comparison will assume that the SQ I hear now will not necessarily be improved in the future.

 

I followed the discussion about the subpar Roon SQ after a certain release on the Roon community forum and the Taiko Audio thread on WBF and must say the Roon people are quite arrogant, I dislike Roon.

 

Matt

[matthias]

12 hours ago, FredM said:

If Roon would impact SQ a bit (which I haven’t noticed with the MU1), I guess it would be okay given all benefits of Roon. 

 

Not for me, I appreciate the efforts of Taiko Audio to get rid of Roon and to get the best sounding SW.

SW has a similar or even greater impact on SQ as HW.

 

Matt

[matthias]

15 minutes ago, FredM said:

Somehow I was quoted without typing the message

 

It was mine.

 

Matt

[matthias]

3 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

The proof of the pudding will be in the hearing, but these limitations (not particularly MU1's fault) mean that I may not get the full potential of the MU1 with my Chord equipment, so may need a Plan B sooner than I had expected

 

If one likes the concept of MU1 it might be the best to wait for the MU2 since the pairing with the DAC is not perfect (like in your case) 😀

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, FredM said:

Perhaps techniques from the new MU2 DAC are reused in the LS1be.

 

When will the MU2 be launched?

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, FredM said:

Mid 2021 is mentioned in the interview above (in the timestamp list underneath the video there’s a shortcut: What’s next?)

 

Another question, maybe they addressed it too in the video but I missed it:

When do they launch their own software player as alternative to Roon?

Thanks again

 

Matt

[matthias]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:19 PM, bodiebill said:

Well if I am allowed to dream... Grimm, please give us a simple I/O DDC with your FPGA magic plus I2S input so that we can feed it with f.i. DSD256 :-)

…or an USB-DAC with the FPGA magic performed before the DA conversion. I do not get it why we must buy a complete Roon server for this.

 

Matt

[matthias]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:12 AM, skatbelt said:

You've been saying this for two or three years but to my knowledge there are no signs of a mini extreme. The wish is the father of the thought.... :)

Correctly I have said this two and a half years ago not for two or three years.

At that time there was a plan to release it, but they retought the concept and didn't launch it for several reasons.

No wishful thinking at all.

 

Matt

[matthias]

17 hours ago, PYP said:

apparently, this was the MU2 setup.  Seems like they are using a passive version of the LS1 + SB1.    Anyone see this setup in person?

 

 

I listened to this set-up in Munich.

The speaker was a legacy speaker from ca. 1990:

Pawel/Ensemble PA-1 & Reference loudspeakers | Stereophile.com

It was passively driven by a Grimm prototype mono power amp. The subwoofers were by Grimm.

IMHO, this was so far the best sounding set-up by Grimm at HE Munich, better than any set-up with LS1.

Much more musical.

 

Matt

 

 

[matthias]

16 hours ago, further said:

Michael Lavorgna posted his enthusiastic review of the MU1 today, https://twitteringmachines.com/review-grimm-audio-mu1-music-player/ .   

IIUC, ML used in his review with the presented music the MU1 as a DDC only:

Jays CDT3 > MU1 > Tambaqui or Totaldac

In all cases the SQ with the MU1 in the set-up was superior to feeding the CDT3 directly the DACs.

 

Matt

[matthias]

4 hours ago, aangen said:

I wish he could have plugged the CDT3 into the Grimm

He actually did that.

 

Matt

[matthias]

23 minutes ago, PYP said:

The music he mentions seems to have been played from the MU1's SSD

IMO, there is no evidence for that.

I think the output of the CDT went into the MU1 and then into the two DACs. For the Tambaqui he found 4x upsampling best, for the Totaldac 2x upsampling.

This makes also sense when you read the review of the CDT3.

 

Matt

[matthias]

At least the "The Newest Sound Around" he played with the CDT3 and with/without the MU1 into the DACs.

Here is a passage from the review of the CDT3:

 

"Removing the Grimm MU1 from the system, running directly from the CDT3 into the Mola Mola Tambaqui with a length of AudioQust Diamond AES cable, I noted some sonic changes to the system mostly in terms of a loss of resolution and nuance, but I’ll cover this in greater detail in upcoming the Grimm review. I will note that if you’re building a CD-playing system and are looking for supremely good performance, the Grimm MU1/CDT 3 gets you there."

 

Anyway, it is not 100% clear what he did.

 

Matt

[matthias]

4 hours ago, Nicholas Dong said:

My DAC is a Merging Nadac connected to a desktop PC through Revanna and passed Emotion played the master file, and I compared it with the win version of Roon.

Interesting,

please share more details about your Ravenna set-up.

Do you also streaming from streaming services like Qobuz?

Thx

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 hour ago, soupcon said:

at the beginning of the MU1 saga, the selling proposition seemed to be in part that the MU1 tech would overcome the inherent (and obviously audible) sonic disadvantages of Roon. Since Grimm has announced upcoming support for other players, I think many of us are waiting for a potential other shoe to drop should those other options sound better than Roon, proving that Roon is just inherently and irredeemably flawed sonically. If we find this to be the case, I won't be in any way disappointed with my purchase of the MU1. Even with Roon, it's buggy database, poor handling of metadata and pathetic support, I have so much more fully enjoyed music since its purchase. I got a nice deal on a used one, but I'd easily spend the money for a new one. 

Not only Grimm users but also Antipodes users are dissatisfied with Roon but Antipodes users have alternatives.

From user reports only Taiko succeeded (with a lot of expensive hardware) to make Roon sound good.

 

Matt

[matthias]

59 minutes ago, Vincent des Champs said:

Stromtank 💪🏻 other ‘power enhancers’ all have downsides..

Stromtank has downsides as well:

It is AC > DC > AC then in the device downstream the Stromtank AC > DC, too much conversions.

Much better than Stromtank is the upcoming Taiko BPS. Even the price might be competitive as Stromtank is expensive.

If someone is interested I would recommend to do search on WBF about Stromtank. I would never buy one.

 

Matt

[matthias]

13 hours ago, Vincent des Champs said:

Good ol’ Matthias always having his opinion without even having first hand experience…  enjoy your Taiko 40k+ BPS 👋 

Usually "argumentum ad hominem" like this one is not allowed on forums.

If this is different here then @The Computer Audiophile can comment on this.

 

After reading the comments of very experienced Stromtank users on different forums it is impossible to claim that it is the only one solution that works/improves on all aspects.

 

Matt

[matthias]

7 minutes ago, Vincent des Champs said:

Please allow me to clarify: in my experience the Stromtank does have no downsides regarding SQ.

OK, no problem this sounds much better.

The great advantage of forums is that you get a broad spectrum of opinions. And like a puzzle at the end there might be a certain picture.

So it is not only about your or my opinion.

 

Matt

[matthias]

14 hours ago, skatbelt said:

Do you have shares in Taiko or otherwise affiliated?

Neither...nor.🙂