Building a DIY Music Server

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

For those using a dual xeon what is the advise sa to which CPU carries the OS and which CPU the player etc?

 

I'm probably having to place both heatsinks above each other and think it's good to connect the CPU with the least heat generation to the upper heatsink but I wonder if there is a lot of difference.

(use case of simple WAV and FLAC streaming, 24bit at the highest, NO upsampling, no PGGB, no filtering no DSP)

 

 

This block diagram is your best friend:

 

 

For example if you put your i2S card in PCIe slot 1, that is connected to CPU2. It would make sense to isolate the i2S related processes on CPU2 and put the generic OS stuff on CPU1. 

[basillus]

7 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

For those using a dual xeon what is the advise sa to which CPU carries the OS and which CPU the player etc?

 

I'm probably having to place both heatsinks above each other and think it's good to connect the CPU with the least heat generation to the upper heatsink but I wonder if there is a lot of difference.

(use case of simple WAV and FLAC streaming, 24bit at the highest, NO upsampling, no PGGB, no filtering no DSP)

 

The Taiko Extreme pcie slots are often occupied as this:

• CPU 2 - 1 (16x, blank), 2 (8x, SFP card or network card), 6 (8x, blank), 7 (16x, Music storage card)
• CPU 1 - 3 (8x, OS storage card), 4 (8x, blank), 5 (16x, Taiko USB card).
  I think I have read that the CPU 1 with the OS gets a few degrees warmer.

[MarcelNL]

thanks @Nenon and @basillus

 

I now see that the NVME only connects through the chipset, and I planned that for OS storage....likely need a PCI>NVME if I want to keep the pseudo SLC femto clock NVME for OS.

 

so in my case 

CPU1-3 PCI with femto clock NVME 

 

CPU2-1 PF Ultra I2S 

CPU2- another PCI to Samsung 990 NVME for storage

CPU2- Solarflare NIC

 

will have to see if that fits as the PF card is quite big, and so it the femto NVME

[seeteeyou]

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-879#post-877731

Quote

It uses about 60 watts idle, which can increase to 80 watts when playing music (depending on the software used). But when booting up it can draw up to 300 watts for short periods of time.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-196#post-14103671

Quote

I recently upgraded the wire in my walls to a special 6g wire designed by Jim Weil of Sound Application. This wire can handle 55A continuous and >200A in peaks and while this is overkill for any audio component, in my setup, the improvement has been very easy to hear even with my DAVE which barely consumes 20 watts. This is not your ordinary 6g Romex but at only $10 per foot, this was not an expensive upgrade (about $1,200). Compared against the 14g wire that was previously in my home theater room, measured impedance is cut by 1/3 and the improvement in dynamics is dramatic.

 

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It's inevitable to ask @Nenon this question since it's already been several months, have you actually replicated @romaz what was sharing back in June?

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-19#post-884417

Quote

2) The Extreme craves current. Not in the same way that my power-hungry monoblock amplifiers crave current as my Extreme barely consumes 70 watts during playback but it craves low impedance current much more than my monoblocks do. Of all my audio gear, the Extreme scales the greatest when fed low impedance current.

 

Quote

Beginning last year, with the help of @nenon, we put together this prototype power distributor.

A 6awg power cable with a giant Bocchino wall plug was then directly wired into the first outlet (no IEC was used).

While we have already found a way to improve the design of this line distributor with even bigger and better 4awg wire, the impact of plugging the Extreme into a device like this is beyond huge.

 

 

 

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More specifically, do you actually think that Taiko Audio DC DC-ATX + ULPS combo would also benefit from low impedance current in the same way?

 

In other words, is it the motherboard itself that's craving low impedance current or not?

 

Of course there's a different way to look at this, maybe it's more about feeding the chokes and the (Duelund + Mundorf) capacitor bank etc.

[Exocer]

7 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

More specifically, do you actually think that Taiko Audio DC DC-ATX + ULPS combo would also benefit from low impedance current in the same way?

It most certainly does. I built a 5awg cable to feed my power conditioner, which my Taiko Dc-ATX is plugged into. I haven’t opened it up yet to see what awg is within it but supposedly it can handle up to 40a all day according to the manufacturer. Adding that 5awg cable had a major impact on my entire system. The ULPS is also ULTRA sensitive to power cables.

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

More specifically, do you actually think that Taiko Audio DC DC-ATX + ULPS combo would also benefit from low impedance current in the same way?

 

Absolutely! Taiko Audio DC DC-ATX + ULPS combo benefits from the same things as the Taiko Extreme. 

I have a 4 AWG power cord on the Extreme at the moment. Tried a very similar design of 1/0 AWG power cord and I heard a solid improvement. So, yes, the ULPS definitely deserves good low impedance power! 

[MarcelNL]

My theory is that everything digital needs instant power but good to see this confirmed by this...had not yet gotten around to tripling the power cord but sure will based on this.

 

 

[drjimwillie]

I have been planning to ask this question, please. 

 

Can we all have a blunt conversation about the components to install before the ULPS. 
I do not have the experience that you all do, and I sincerely feel that my enthusiasm will outweigh my common sense.

 

 

@Nenon previously, you said that if you had to install a power switch, it would be this circuit breaker. What amperage circuit breaker would you use for the ULPS, please?

 

If I use this circuit breaker, does that mean that I do not need a fuse?

 

Do I need a fuse at all?  It seems to me that the fuse would be the weak link. what amperage fuse would I need? Fast blow or slow blow? I certainly cannot afford a $3000 fuse. That sounds better than no fuse at all, ha ha.😉

 

I was thinking about the process involved, if there is no switch installed. To power down the server, you use software. To reset the motherboard, I can pull the power cord from the IEC.  Then, of course, there is that button, I think it is a momentary switch, to turn the motherboard back on.
 

I have the Nortel transformer, so I am not using the soft start.

 

For best performance, it seems that I should go straight from the IEC to the transformer.

 

I look forward to, and I am a bit frightened to hear about your experience.😉

 

Thank you,

Will
 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, drjimwillie said:

I have been planning to ask this question, please. 

 

Can we all have a blunt conversation about the components to install before the ULPS. 
I do not have the experience that you all do, and I sincerely feel that my enthusiasm will outweigh my common sense.

 

 

@Nenon previously, you said that if you had to install a power switch, it would be this circuit breaker. What amperage circuit breaker would you use for the ULPS, please?

 

If I use this circuit breaker, does that mean that I do not need a fuse?

 

Do I need a fuse at all?  It seems to me that the fuse would be the weak link. what amperage fuse would I need? Fast blow or slow blow? I certainly cannot afford a $3000 fuse. That sounds better than no fuse at all, ha ha.😉

 

I was thinking about the process involved, if there is no switch installed. To power down the server, you use software. To reset the motherboard, I can pull the power cord from the IEC.  Then, of course, there is that button, I think it is a momentary switch, to turn the motherboard back on.
 

I have the Nortel transformer, so I am not using the soft start.

 

For best performance, it seems that I should go straight from the IEC to the transformer.

 

I look forward to, and I am a bit frightened to hear about your experience.😉

 

Thank you,

Will
 

 

Here is what I used to do:

1. If I did not use a softstart, I bypassed the ON/OFF switch for the ULPS. You can turn the computer on/off from the motherboard controls. And you can always unplug the power cord if needed. 

2. If I used a softstart, I put a switch that controls the softstart and it won't have an impact on the sound quality. No softstart sounds better. No softstart and no switch sounds even better. 

 

In commercial products there is always an ON/OFF switch. Safety and convenience are more important than squeezing every last bit of performance there. 

 

Whatever you do, ALWAYS USE A FUSE or make sure you have adequate protection. A cymbal that sounds just a little bit clearer is not worth the risk of burning your house down and putting the life of you and your family at risk. 

As a rule of thumb, you can size the fuse with something like this: 1.5 x transformer VA, and divide by mains voltage to get the fuse rating. And you need a slow blow type for the ULPS. But this is DIY, and whatever you do is at your own risk. 

 

The magnetic circuit breaker you listed is good as it combines the functionality of a switch and a fuse. I use it on my tube monoblocks because I have to turn them on/off every day. Never used it on my server. 

[drjimwillie]

Nenon, thank you very much. 
 

Which sounds better, the magnetic circuit breaker, or the fuse?

 

when I go home today, I will check the wattage of the Nortel transformer and report back so we can check my math, 😁

 

also, I have two fuse holders that I will take a picture of so I can ask which looks to be the better fuse holder.

[Nenon]

15 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

Which sounds better, the magnetic circuit breaker, or the fuse?

I prefered to use a fuse on my ULPS for multiple reasons. 

 

15 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

I have two fuse holders that I will take a picture of so I can ask which looks to be the better fuse holder.

I don't think anyone will be able to answer this question, and I would not obsess about which fuse holder to use. There are better things to do in life 😂. Just pick one and go with it. Chances are there are much bigger bottlenecks in our systems than one fuse holder vs. another. 

I have spent a lot of time on speaker-room interaction and room optimization lately, and the gains are much bigger than fuses and fuses holders. 

[drjimwillie]

The Nortel/Taiko transformer says that it is 192VA x 1.5 = 288/120 (mains voltage)= 2.4 A

 

I purchased some of my server parts from another DIY enthusiast, it included a synergistic research Red fuse that is 5A 500V. 
 

would that be fine to use?

 

thank you

[Kuba7777]

Is there a Taiko DC-ATX converter in Taiko Extreme?

thank you 

[Rovo]

20 minutes ago, Kuba7777 said:

Is there a Taiko DC-ATX converter in Taiko Extreme?

thank you 

no, if you search this thread or the thread on building an unregulated linear power supply you will find some discussions on this subject

[JJSim]

9 hours ago, Kuba7777 said:

Is there a Taiko DC-ATX converter in Taiko Extreme?

thank you 

 

This post from member JayM indicates that the Extreme does use the Taiko DC-ATX. Unless the Taiko DC-ATX was developed for use in the Extreme but was never put into production units. AFAIK, no one has been able to capture a photo of what is underneath the capacitor board (the second Lundahl choke is visible, however).

 

Based on the topology of the Extreme's single rail power supply (single transformer secondary, single active rectifier, single capacitor array) plus the confined space underneath the capacitor board, it seems unlikely that Taiko is utilizing linear regulators for the different ATX, EPS, and expansion card voltages.

 

On 8/31/2022 at 5:48 AM, JayM said:

As confirmation to Nenon's post regarding R&D this is definitely a big cost driving factor, this is the reason we have to design our products with different markets in mind since there is no way R&D can be supported by only the DIY branche. This is the reason the ATX is designed that way, the holes and cutout corner of the copper plate make the DC-DC ATX mountable in te SGM Extreme under all the capacitors otherwise this would not not have fit. Emile really wants to support the DIY market purely out of joy, because he started that way himself. I can vouch for the fact that we have little to no margin on the DIY products as is, so having to PCB's made one that would have fit in the SGM Extreme and one purely for the DIY market would have increased the price many times over since the market is just to small. We do not want to do that to the DIY community.

 

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/91/#comment-1125719  

On 4/15/2021 at 9:05 PM, JayM said:

Here is a specification sheet of our GaN based DC DC-ATX. Hopefully this provides some more insight! :)

 

This is a new development, not implemented in the SGM Extreme music servers. This was originally designed to facilitate a cheaper server model, without compromising performance. As the demand for our music servers is keeping us rather busy, and so delaying the potential launch of a smaller server. As we will not get around to this anytime soon, we’ve decided to make this available for DIY projects.

 

Now that's gotta be crystal clear, most likely the word "Mini" should be missing since he should have meant "SGM Extreme Mini" back in 2022.

 

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Thanks @Exocer and @Nenon for answering my questions, I found something relatively affordable for those of us who just wanna have a "trial run" with this 7 AWG cable

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-791#post-14404882

 

As always even used ones should be fine for testing purposes, here are the prices of brand new cables on Amazon (15A version)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Signature-Power-Cable/dp/B00UC9IM3G

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Signature-Power-Cable/dp/B00UCDLTQE

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Signature-Power-Cable/dp/B00UCDUX2A

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Signature-Power-Cable/dp/B00UCE659E

 

(20A version)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Power-Cable-Meter/dp/B073K1C492

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Power-Cable-Meter/dp/B073K1YQYD

 

Once we're ready for the BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal) since it's gonna be just a matter of go big or go home, let's see how far we'll actually get

 

http://bocchtech.com/bocchinoaudio/lepowerchord.html

Quote

Each tong of all the power plugs utilises a cylinder of depth 30mm and capable of taking a power wire up to 1 awg ( 6.0mm+ ) each.

All Baluga plugs will accommodate wire thickness up to 3 AWG or 30 square millimeters square.

All Mariner10 and Mariner20 sockets will accommodate wire thickness up to 3 AWG or 30 square millimeters square.

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/bocchino-sablon-in-da-house.26416/

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/bocchino-us-mains-socket.27154/

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/sablon-power-cords.28502/

Quote

King Sablon - this is my flagship featuring the full Bocchino plugset and 5awg of wire. I’ll be the first to admit that it isn’t for everyone, not least of all since the Bocchino mains plug is simply huge, 50% larger than the already chunky iec, and spills over adjacent outlets in mains conditioners / distribution blocks.

 

Some smokin' deals could be found here and there

 

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649925304-king-sablon-with-bocchino-connectors-retail-5300/

 

When it comes to DIY cables, even those connectors seemed to cost so much more when compared to what we're paying for other brands

 

https://world.taobao.com/item/566573829334.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/574448562036.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/575823964033.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/645788826926.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/657523868693.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/657967053811.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/658344854293.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/658672315484.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/658672971350.htm

https://world.taobao.com/item/743821689770.htm

 

Other than Bocchino Audio, I've got no ideas what else we could really use for building something with 5 or even 1/0 AWG wires

 

https://www.jlaudio.com/collections/premium-power-wire

Quote

1/0 AWG - 4,704 strands
2 AWG - 2,940 strands
4 AWG - 1,862 strands
8 AWG sizes - 735 strands

 

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I looked 'em up on Google and each 50-ft spool (1/0 AWG) should cost 700 bucks

 

https://www.jlaudio.com/collections/premium-power-wire/products/xd-bpw1-0-50-car-audio-power-wire-90340

https://www.jlaudio.com/collections/premium-power-wire/products/xd-rpw1-0-50-car-audio-power-wire-90344

https://www.jlaudio.com/collections/premium-power-wire/products/xd-cpw1-0-50-car-audio-power-wire-90348

 

And then I dunno how much of a "doorbuster deal" it's supposed to be

 

https://gpcaraudio.com/25-feet-1-0-gp-ultra-pure-copper-diamond-edition-free-tshirt/

https://gpcaraudio.com/50-feet-1-0-gp-ultra-pure-copper-diamond-edition-free-tshirt/

https://gpcaraudio.com/100-feet-1-0-gp-ultra-pure-copper-diamond-edition-free-tshirt/

Quote

Rated at 350 amps @ 25 feet

GP Car Audio TRUE 1/0 AWG OFHC Wire

 

FYI - more details about AWG could be found below and I'm not embedding any pictures since they aren't really all that small

 

https://studylib.net/doc/25291894/american-wire-gauge-conductor-size-table

https://s3.studylib.net/store/data/025291894_1-21ba4502b8c57e72be2d9a0a7b5dd59f-768x994.png

 

https://metersuk.co.uk/american-wire-gauge-awg-cable-conductor-sizes/

https://metersuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/CHART-1-w.jpg

 

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2022/04/american-wire-gauge-awg-chart-wire-size-ampacity-table.html

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Wire-Gauge-Chart-Wire-Size-Ampacity.png

 

https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/wire-gauge-chart.html

https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/index.html

 

---

 

Finally we've got yet another "crazy" idea, supposedly WS C621E SAGE could be powered by up to 4 PSUs at the same time

 

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/Socket3647/WS_C621E_SAGE/Manual/E15371_WS_C621E_SAGE_UM_V6_WEB.pdf#page=44

Quote

If you want to use two or more high-end PCI Express x16 cards, use a PSU with 1000W power or above to ensure the system stability, and recommend connecting the 6-pin EATX12V3 power plug.

 

1 for the 24-pin ATX, 2 for a pair of CPUs, and then 1 more for PCI Express slot(s) as shown above.

 

In the end we're talking about up to 4 power cables here if we're going for 4 PSUs, provided that we do have a wallet that's fat enough that is.

 

I managed to find plenty of forum posts with positive feedback for powering the same music server with either multiple PSUs or multiple rails from the same PSU, namely what's happening inside Innuos ZENith SE Mk II (i.e. Supermicro X10SBA-L)

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/313/#comment-813712

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/256/#comment-777878

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/255/#comment-777864

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/46748-new-hdplex-200w-lps/page/2/#comment-916527

http://www.andaudio.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=128680&start=50#p1138015

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=226127#post226127

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=226142#post226142

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=227955#post227955

On 4/26/2018 at 4:25 PM, nvitorino said:

1. ATX only (using a Pico-PSU with a clean 12V input)

2. 12V only

3. ATX + 12V

 

We've fthen further tested with separate rails using the ATX only and compared to using separate rails for ATX + 12V input. The result is the same, adding both ATX and 12V results is clearly superior sound with this board.

 

https://hifiplus.com/articles/innuos-zenith-se-mk-ii-music-server/

Quote

There are a number of differences, but the one that Innuos emphasises is the power supply, which was designed by Sean Jacobs who runs the misleadingly titled Custom HiFi Cables, a company that appears to specialise in power supply upgrades.

 

This 500W GaN-based PSU costs less than $200 a pop and that wouldn't be too bad just for trying things out

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/68423-my-recent-experience-with-the-new-amd-7000-series-processors-and-related-motherboards/page/2/#comment-1252239

 

It could be powered on and off with stuff like this

 

https://www.amazon.com/CRJ-24-Pin-Switch-Jumper-Sleeved/dp/B01MSY4966

[drjimwillie]

[drjimwillie]

Sorry about the images without any text. I couldn’t figure out how to do it after I attach the photos.
 

I love the idea of go big or go home.  I definitely have not used some of the bigger wire gauge that I’ve heard of others using.
 

I definitely want one of those seven gauge Pangea cords. 😎

 

 I had not thought about using the Sean Jacobs power supply. I have on my server currently. It has a dedicated 10 amp power supply for the CPU.  now I’m imagining what I could do with it on the new server.

But honestly, I’m kind of liking the simplicity of of the server, and the power supply in one box like the extreme.  
It is nice to have options.
 

I am thinking that this conversation about wire gauge is right in line with the conversation about the fuse.

 

To digress a bit, to the previous pictures. I am using six gauge 220V, 30A with the ground in a separate conduit. Into a power sure 800, 115lbs designed for operating rooms, step down to 120V. Into a custom distribution box. Each Hubble industrial outlet gets two 10 gauge hot and two neutral.  The ground remains separate until its stars out to each outlet.

it’s all about instantaneous power when needed.  But I’m not telling you anything.
 

So these are the two fuses. I have already decided that I am going to use the one that is standing up. I believe that’s the one that came with the Taiko case.

 

My new question is, if I am planning to run three of the Angelique Wire to every component in the power supply, do I run three wire from the IEC to the fuse? And then three wires from the fuse to the transformer?

 

also, I noticed that this fuse has one contact on each side and one out the back. so I would guess that the two on the sides are together. I will check for continuity.  Does it matter which one is the in and which is the out of the fuse?
 

[Rovo]

14 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

So these are the two fuses. I have already decided that I am going to use the one that is standing up. I believe that’s the one that came with the Taiko case.

Most likely Bulgin FX0462

[seeteeyou]

https://twitter.com/ASUS/status/1717526570154570087

https://twitter.com/ASUSUSA/status/1717571890695520323

https://press.asus.com/news/asus-announces-pro-ws-wrx90e-sage-se-pro-ws-trx50-sage-wifi/

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/workstation/pro-ws-trx50-sage-wifi/

https://edgeup.asus.com/2023/asus-pro-workstation-motherboards-prepare-the-way-for-amd-ryzen-threadripper-7000-series-cpus/

Quote

The PRO WS TRX50-SAGE WIFI motherboard stands ready for these potent chips with its overclocking-ready VRM comprising of (18*2)+3+4+4 power stages, primed to deliver copious amounts of power.

 

Holy smoke, what else could I say here? Five 8-pin connectors and two 24-pin ATX connectors for feeding a whopping 47 power stages.

 

Here comes the brother of WS C621E SAGE but all of those Threadripper HEDT and Pro 7000 processors are rated @ 350W TDP for real, water cooling wouldn't be all that ideal but that's just about the only way to go.

[Mops911]

Server turns off. Advice requested.

 

I have my HQPplayer server based on a unregulated power supply, HDDPlex 800w atx and an MSI Unify-x motherboard.

 

Since yesterday, it just shuts down. I have another unregulated power supply and it does the same, so its either the board (or one of its components) or the HDDPlex 800w. How to figure out now which it is? Any idea?

 

Cheers

Tom

[Exocer]

3 hours ago, Mops911 said:

Server turns off. Advice requested.

 

I have my HQPplayer server based on a unregulated power supply, HDDPlex 800w atx and an MSI Unify-x motherboard.

 

Since yesterday, it just shuts down. I have another unregulated power supply and it does the same, so its either the board (or one of its components) or the HDDPlex 800w. How to figure out now which it is? Any idea?

 

Cheers

Tom

When is it shutting down? During boot or during playback?

[Mops911]

21 minutes ago, Exocer said:

during playback?

 

after an hour of playback or so...

 

[Exocer]

4 minutes ago, Mops911 said:

 

after an hour of playback or so...

 

Have you been doing anything more cpu-intensive than usual?

[MarcelNL]

CPU temp verified? Ran a memory check?