HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[KenMoreira]

No power cable is directional. 

 

Ac power switches its polarity 60 times per second in North America and, 50 times per second in Europe. 

 

 

No one could swap their cable that fast.. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, KenMoreira said:

No power cable is directional. 

 

Ac power switches its polarity 60 times per second in North America and, 50 times per second in Europe. 

 

 

No one could swap their cable that fast.. 

However, have you tried to reverse a power cable? I can never get the three prongs to go into my components 😁

[Account Closed]

12 hours ago, musicjunkie917 said:

 

The cable is not directional......where does this stuff come from????????????????

It is getting close to Halloween. The Quantumverse maybe?😜

[ClothEars]

5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

However, have you tried to reverse a power cable? I can never get the three prongs to go into my components 😁

Perhaps I should have been more clear in posing my question.

I was not talking about the mains supply but the DC supply from the Holo May power supply to the DAC unit.

[sworksone]

The Holo Audio May DAC DC power cable is not directional.  

[musicjunkie917]

2 hours ago, ClothEars said:

Perhaps I should have been more clear in posing my question.

I was not talking about the mains supply but the DC supply from the Holo May power supply to the DAC unit.

 

That was what I was talking about in my response. What made you think it could be directional??? If you say you heard a difference I am going to call E.B.!!

[ClothEars]

I was hoping to hear from anyone that had actually tried the DC cable in both directions and could therefore offer their opinion based on their observations.  If you have not done this, then there is no point responding by asserting your view that you do not think DC cables can be directional.  If you have tried this and found there is no difference then I welcome your feedback.

[musicjunkie917]

1 hour ago, ClothEars said:

I was hoping to hear from anyone that had actually tried the DC cable in both directions and could therefore offer their opinion based on their observations.  If you have not done this, then there is no point responding by asserting your view that you do not think DC cables can be directional.  If you have tried this and found there is no difference then I welcome your feedback.

 

Who knows if I tried it both ways. I have moved the units around disconnecting the DC power cable multiple times. I highly doubt I have installed it the same way each time. I have never heard a difference and can't think of a logical reason why there would be a sound difference. Hell, I can't think of an illogical reason either. It's not like one end is grounded and the other is not like with directional RCA cables. 

[ClothEars]

16 minutes ago, musicjunkie917 said:

 

Who knows if I tried it both ways. I have moved the units around disconnecting the DC power cable multiple times. I highly doubt I have installed it the same way each time. I have never heard a difference and can't think of a logical reason why there would be a sound difference. Hell, I can't think of an illogical reason either. It's not like one end is grounded and the other is not like with directional RCA cables. 

Thanks for your feedback.

By the way who on earth is "E.B." ?

[boomtheroom]

so in the end how does the holo may compare to the sa10 after completer break in>?

[Extreme_Boky]

Has anyone kept the original USB module? 

[Powerman]

On 10/5/2022 at 9:15 AM, louisxiawei said:

I searched the key word "1024" in this topic after my last post to see whoever talked about dsd1024. Seems to be you are the only few. 😂

 

I tried to avoid using subjective or fancy wordings these days in any audiophile forums as we aduiophiles do make a fussy impression from time to time, the more frenquent audiophiles exaggerate the SQ, the less credbility a product will have accordingly.

 

We are still the minorities to spot the DSD1024. DSD 1024 is not that just simple as "bigger" stage, or more transpranecy or more delight overtone. I would say that I sense a strong "air" across the whole frequency when the sampling rate is higher. At DSD256, I sense no "air" at all. 

 

If we are talking about soundstage, then a multi-instrument scene or orchestral pieces will be a good example to discuss. But it not just about sound stage.

 

For example, I played a few tracks of solo singer with just piano accompaniment or no instrument at all, a solo singer with or without a piano cannot demonstrate a complex soundstage and allow us to disucss the stage is bigger or wide. But still in DSD1024, the difference is clear, I can sense the air around every syllable, that vibe is real. 

 

Same speaker, same setup, just sampling rate change. I think it's pretty amazing but shamed that not many tried yet.

 

The link below is from soulution audio, which also mentioned about "the air". I think the great minds think alike and maybe some great mind have not realised them yet.

 

https://soulution-audio.com/series7/soulution-760-dac/

 

 

 

I simply don't get it. Multiplying bits by many times... Adding in what was never there... Of course it will sound different. It's not retrieving, it's not uncovering... It's adding. We can add in all the reverb we want. We can position anything anywhere in the stage, we can manipulate, filter, move, add what ever we want... That is not faithfulling reproducing a recording... It's DSP. Cool if you like concert mode, but so what. What am I missing?

[ted_b]

Your dac (or your software player) will oversample everything it gets, typically.  This is not a process of adding or subtracting musical information (i.e it's not your "concert mode" or "party mode" inferences) it is a process of getting filters (and in the case of DSD, modulators) to clean up the extraneous noise and out of band gremlins that occur in the recording and playback chain.  In the case of DSD, getting to DSD1024 is, oversimplified, allowing a dac that can be put in NOS mode (i.e. tell the dac to NOT oversample) like the Holo May, to use filtering that is so minimal and so far out of the musical bandwidth to be as harmless as possible.  We're trying to hear the music and subtle often-buried recording cues...we're not trying to add anything.   Far from it. 

[Powerman]

I was wanting to discuss the Holo May DAC, but I'm not sure this is the place. I will be playing music on it for sheer enjoyment, and there will not be a computer anywhere in sight. Nor will there ever be...

 

Currently I have a Pontus 2 fed by I2S from Mercury streamer. My LTA Z40+ and Dynaudio Heritage specials sound amazing now, I just think I want a DAC on the same level and the May is at the top of a lot of lists... But is it engaging? Anyone happen to know pontus as well? I listen to everything, but the better the system... The more, live, acoustical, jazz I play.

 

Thank you.

[Miska]

30 minutes ago, Powerman said:

I simply don't get it. Multiplying bits by many times... Adding in what was never there...

 

Upsampling/oversampling is not about adding something that wasn't there. But reconstructing as accurately as possible what is in there from the data. Mathematical reconstruction of continuous waveform from sparsely spaced samples.

 

It is a bit like these children drawings where you connect the dots:

 

Those dots are the digital samples, and just looking (or listening) those dots you get pretty blurry image what it is trying to represent.

 

Dumb algorithm would just draw straight lines between the dots. More advanced one can draw correct beautiful smooth arcs between the dots.

 

Now it is just mathematics that connects the dots. Higher the sampling rate, closer to the original analog waveform that once entered ADC the data becomes. And then analog filter in the DAC does the final connections. The analog filter just needs help from digital side, due to practical and physics constraints. Mathematical accuracy and performance is not constrained by laws of physics.

 

30 minutes ago, Powerman said:

That is not faithfulling reproducing a recording... It's DSP.

 

It is, especially with PCM you need DSP to produce the data that is in the digital recording, from the analog signal. And you need DSP to convert the digital data back into the original analog waveform. It is required by the sampling theory.

 

If you want to get shorter path, with less DSP, get true DSD recordings and play them as DSD. That skips couple of DSP steps from the process.

 

[louisxiawei]

There should be a category in this forum pinned at front page with a catchy notice like "something you must know before ramblings" and what miska said about upsampling/oversampling must be put there. Lol.

[Extreme_Boky]

14 hours ago, Powerman said:

I simply don't get it. Multiplying bits by many times... Adding in what was never there... Of course it will sound different. It's not retrieving, it's not uncovering... It's adding. We can add in all the reverb we want. We can position anything anywhere in the stage, we can manipulate, filter, move, add what ever we want... That is not faithfulling reproducing a recording... It's DSP. Cool if you like concert mode, but so what. What am I missing?

 

You posted on forum that is constantly  patrolled by people who have vested interest in promoting upsampling/oversampling DAC's and software. They'll do anything to sell their product, and would refrain from nothing to make you feel stupid. 

 

If you are really interested in DSD VS PCM, or up sampling / oversampling... do your own research.... read a lot. I have attached something, if you are willing to read.

 

It doesn't really matter what anyone says. The only thing that matters is what sounds best to you. But, be open to options and do not discard any.... after all, the options are made by others to satisfy YOUR needs - as a consumer. 

 

sacd.pdf

 

[jabbr]

21 hours ago, Powerman said:

I simply don't get it. Multiplying bits by many times... Adding in what was never there... Of course it will sound different. It's not retrieving, it's not uncovering... It's adding. We can add in all the reverb we want. We can position anything anywhere in the stage, we can manipulate, filter, move, add what ever we want... That is not faithfulling reproducing a recording... It's DSP. Cool if you like concert mode, but so what. What am I missing?

We aren’t talking about directly recording an analog signal on a magnetic media and then playing it back and amplifying the signal. 
 

This is digital. 
 

Representing abrupt changes (digital) in voltage causes high order harmonics which can blow and or Inter modulate the amplified sound. Filtering is 1000% required. It’s how digital signaling works. The DSD signal is numbers typically 0/1 and not smooth electrical voltages.  The only question is where and how the filtering happens. What is the best way to filter the abrupt digital voltage changes back into the original smooth analog signal? In computer based upsampling, the computer offloads a lot of the processing from the DAC. 

[louisxiawei]

7 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

 

You posted on forum that is constantly  patrolled by people who have vested interest in promoting upsampling/oversampling DAC's and software. They'll do anything to sell their product, and would refrain from nothing to make you feel stupid. 

 

If you are really interested in DSD VS PCM, or up sampling / oversampling... do your own research.... read a lot. I have attached something, if you are willing to read.

 

It doesn't really matter what anyone says. The only thing that matters is what sounds best to you. But, be open to options and do not discard any.... after all, the options are made by others to satisfy YOUR needs - as a consumer. 

 

sacd.pdf 202.63 kB · 13 downloads

 

Why so cyncial and assume things are conspiratorial?

 

Upsampling and DSP are based on a terrible precondition that music industry does not intend to release everything at mastertape quality to the public. In stead, 44.1/16, MQA these lossy files are still the majority for the audiences. Compared to the audio circle, visual technology on the other hand is far more progressive. For example, are you satisified with 720p resolution when there is a 1080p or 4k resoulation?

 

Let's just follow your logic and assume people like Miska has their hidden agenda and want to promote his upsampling software/DACs as much as possible to make a fortune and make other people against upsampling look stupid. Then where is the logic people here repeatedly emphaize that DSP and upsampling would be totally unnecessary if the files are hi-res enough at the first place.

 

Common sense were established years ago here and audiophiles are just trying what they can at the current status quo, which is the whole audio industry is not progressive at all.

 

People believe what they believe in most cases and do pick a side to suit their needs. It's all about preconscious and subconscious. Your attached file is quite a good sign of you are not reading a lot. 

 

 

[Powerman]

Yes, but can anyone help me with the May itself and how it sounds maybe compared to Pontus... Or even Lampizator?

[Miska]

9 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

If you are really interested in DSD VS PCM, or up sampling / oversampling... do your own research.... read a lot. I have attached something, if you are willing to read.

 

Very old paper, over 20 years old that only demonstrates people who wrote it don't know how to design a proper modulator. 😂 (there are other funny AES papers as well, for example from the MQA folks)

 

Sure, there are lot of poor modulators on the market, for example inside DAC chips.

 

Yet people still use ESS Sabre converters where modulator generates 1-bit stream. And it's not even a good modulator. And people use various other 1-bit DACs. In addition, people also use class-D amplifiers that also operate in similar manner with 1-bit output.

 

If I can take a 192/24 PCM file, convert it to DSD and then convert it back to 192/24 PCM in a bit-perfect manner...

 

What is your suggested way to play?

[Quadman]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

What is your suggested way to play?

From his previous postings over a year ago he is a strictly NOS guy.  Takes what ever stream is and no upsampling.  I admit the may at NOS does sound pretty darn good.  JA from stereophile still calls it one of if not the best measuring Dac's he has ever measured. 

 

Me, of course, is a huge proponent of DSD1024, magic happens there.  I warm up my system with DSD256 just to save some power drawn from the PC.  I listen to this for a bit when I come down to my room and then in the middle of a well known song go back to my preferred 1024 up sampled rate.  I just shake my head and wonder how people listen to DSD256 and think it's the best.  One concrete thing I have learned is that "You don't know what you don't know until you do"  Listen to 1024 then you'll know.

[Miska]

Practically all CD players and DACs have been oversampling since mid 80's. It is very widely accepted engineering practice.

 

With R2R DACs, doing high enough rate with a purpose designed noise-shaper also allows to correct non-linearity of the converter that plagues all R2R due to physical constraints.

 

[ted_b]

We can't beg to this guy.  We gave him every reason and technical explanation as to why correct precise oversampling techniques are not gimmickry, yet others rudely interject cynicism due to their ignorance of the subject.  So be it....borrow a damn May, use a software trial like included in HQplayer and listen for oneself.  Yikes!

[barrows]

34 minutes ago, Quadman said:

JA from stereophile still calls it one of if not the best measuring Dac's he has ever measured. 

Not if you feed it 44.1 data and run it as NOS though...  there will be obvious issues in its output in that case.