Article: Home Audio Fidelity - Room Shaper Review

[Bob Stern]

3 hours ago, scintilla said:

Thanks Bob, I tried that and got a chain that worked using Audiohijack with Roon outputting to Soundflower rather than system. I think it is worth playing with on a trial basis now that this plugin is available for Mac.

 

Are you using Loopback or Soundflower to couple Audio Hijack's output to HQP's input?

 

If Soundflower works, that's a great free solution.  OTOH, if you have to use Loopback in one leg of the chain, you might as well use it in both legs.  Loopback can create an unlimited number of virtual devices.

[scintilla]

I used Roon--> Soundflower-->Hijack-->Room Shaper-->Loopback-->HQPlayer.

I then tried Roon-->Soundflower-->Puremusic streamthrough-->Loopback--HQPlayer.  

 

The latter would be preferred if I could get Room Shaper to work as a plugin in Puremusic, but so far I can't get Puremusic to recognize it and allow it as an AU in the list or to get plugins even working in the chain. Loopback is not easy to configure. I found that I could put Room Shaper between Roon and Loopback though and that may be my only option right now. None of this is ideal.

[firedog]

Yeah, I haven't figured out how to get it up and running either.

I'm using Roon convolution for DRC; I've got the mic, REW, trial version of the program etc.

Just can't figure out how to actually do the measurements and produce the needed correction in my setup. When I tried to use the .dll, I kept getting a response that it couldn't be loaded. And I can't figure out how to use the standalone version together with other software. I'll give it another try  on the weekend. 

If anyone wants to help, PM me. 

[rowli]

If someone manage to find a solution to add Room Shaper between Roon and HQPlayer on Windows let me know!

But I'm using Accurate convolution DRC in HQPlayer. Guess Room Shaper need to be added after convolution? So perhaps not a solution for me. Might have to switch to Jriver to try Room Shaper. But then I loose Roon's great GUI and HQPlayers wonderful DSD upsampling filters. Trade-offs...

 

thanks for a great article Mitch!

 

regards Micke

[scintilla]

I used Roon--> Soundflower-->Hijack-->Room Shaper-->Loopback-->HQPlayer. This works on MacOS, there's no reason to think it won't on Windows too.

 

I am also using HQPlayer with acourate DRC filters.  The place for Room Shaper is before HQPlayer and convolution.  The developer has indicated that you should if possible have Room Shaper as your first plugin or signal processing in your chain.  You also will want to do your sweeps with your DRC engaged. 

[rowli]

Thanks for the feedback scintilla!
Great news, then I will try Room shaper with Hqplayer in Windows. 
I have no experience with loopbacks, VST plugins etc. Just started to read about it now. Might try (if no one have better suggestions?)
Roon —> Voicemeeter virtual input —> Voicemeeter Banana (Connect to Reaper as VST Host for Room shaper via IN/OUT Patch) -> Voicemeeter virtual output -> HQPlayer -> NAA
or 
Roon —> VB-Audio CABLE virtual input —> Reaper (as VST Host for Room shaper) —> VB-Audio CABLE virtual input 2 -> HQPlayer -> NAA

or

Roon -> VB-Audio ASIO Bridge (if possible to route to Reaper as VST Host for Room shaper) -> HQPlayer -> NAA

Some links

https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm
https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/
https://www.reaper.fm/ (found some documentation here https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1681556 )

 

So I read above that HQPlayer streaming input samplerate need to be set manually. I use 384kHz wav convolution filters in Hqplayer (and upsample after that to DSD256).
Dunno if it best to then try to upsample everything to 384kHz before HQplayer (either in Roon or perhaps Voicemeeter)?

[PorkChop]

I wonder if this would be effective on a 2.1 system?  Might be a stupid question, but wouldn't the plugin tame the bass portion of the total signal even if some of the is being reproduced by the satellites and most by the sub? One product I am interested in is DSPeaker anti-mode, but I'd much prefer a software solution

[mitchco]

Hi @PorkChop Yes, this will work on a 2.1 system and yes to taming the bass portion of the total signal.

[olli]

On 11/20/2019 at 7:49 AM, scintilla said:

I used Roon--> Soundflower-->Hijack-->Room Shaper-->Loopback-->HQPlayer.

I then tried Roon-->Soundflower-->Puremusic streamthrough-->Loopback--HQPlayer.  

 

The latter would be preferred if I could get Room Shaper to work as a plugin in Puremusic, but so far I can't get Puremusic to recognize it and allow it as an AU in the list or to get plugins even working in the chain. Loopback is not easy to configure. I found that I could put Room Shaper between Roon and Loopback though and that may be my only option right now. None of this is ideal.

 

Could you give some advise on how you got it working on a Mac? I can’t write the configuration, Thierry was trying to help but unfortunately we were not successful so far.

I am using Audio Hijack: Roon - Room Shaper - Output. After uploading the ir files I get an error message when trying to write the configuration. I did place the plugin in the library/audio/plugin-ins/components folder.... see screenshot attached

[scintilla]

I'm afraid that I can't help you yet.  I haven't yet done sweeps, I merely got a signal flow that output sound through the plugin and out to HQPlayer. Once I get a chance to do sweeps I will post my results. 

[Alvantri]

19 hours ago, olli said:

 

Could you give some advise on how you got it working on a Mac? I can’t write the configuration, Thierry was trying to help but unfortunately we were not successful so far.

I am using Audio Hijack: Roon - Room Shaper - Output. After uploading the ir files I get an error message when trying to write the configuration. I did place the plugin in the library/audio/plugin-ins/components folder.... see screenshot attached

 

 

I got the same error message on mac-mini. Reasoned it had to be a permissions problem even though logged in as admin-user. Solved by starting room-shaper as a root-user - for how to do that:

 

http://osxdaily.com/2013/02/06/how-to-run-gui-apps-as-root-in-mac-os-x/

 

Only need to do this one time as once config is successfully loaded then can run room-shaper normally.

[olli]

8 hours ago, Alvantri said:

 

I got the same error message on mac-mini. Reasoned it had to be a permissions problem even though logged in as admin-user. Solved by starting room-shaper as a root-user - for how to do that:

 

http://osxdaily.com/2013/02/06/how-to-run-gui-apps-as-root-in-mac-os-x/

 

Only need to do this one time as once config is successfully loaded then can run room-shaper normally.

 

Thans Alvantri. That did work. I got it configured now, but I am only getting my 4 subs once I turn on Hijack, mains are gone then. How did you integrate Room Shaper?

[Alvantri]

Using Room Shaper as plugin with JRMC on the Mac-mini, and then digital out via MOTU 8D to Win10 laptop/RME FF UCX,  and AcourateConvolver for 2 way crossovers/room correction for active 2-way system. Can't do all the processing on one box as it won't keep up. Getting very good sound this way though.

[olli]

On 11/26/2019 at 6:30 AM, Alvantri said:

Using Room Shaper as plugin with JRMC on the Mac-mini, and then digital out via MOTU 8D to Win10 laptop/RME FF UCX,  and AcourateConvolver for 2 way crossovers/room correction for active 2-way system. Can't do all the processing on one box as it won't keep up. Getting very good sound this way though.

 

Got it. JRMC. I can't use JRMC because I am only streaming from TIDAL and the WDM driver thing isn't working properly. Too bad, but thanks anyway!

 

 

[jiminlogansquare]

Sorry if I am being obtuse or overreaching, but could olli and/or Alvantri talk me through how to solve the permissions problem, step by step for a child? The link Alvantri has provided assumes a level of technical finesse I admit not to have. Thanks!

[Alvantri]

Just checked back to this thread - assuming that Room Shaper installed in the usual paths on the Mac, which should be the case:

1. log on to Mac as admin user

2. open a terminal window (bash) - Launcher/Other/Terminal

3. paste the following at the $ prompt (not the quotation marks) -

      "sudo /Applications/Room_Shaper.app/Contents/MacOS/Room_Shaper" 

and hit return key, enter admin user password if prompted, and hit return again.

5. Room Shaper should now run and should be able to load config files successfully.

6. shut down room shaper and restart from desktop or load as plugin and it should now be configured.

 

 

 

[jrobbins50]

Hi all. I note that Thierry has a freestanding version of Room Shaper for download which can use Roon via the VB-audio virtual cable. My issue is that my DAC doesn’t show up in the list of devices under options / control panel on Room Shaper. My Bel Canto Streamer has only an ethernet input and no USB input. Is that why it doesn’t work?  Is there such a thing as a virtual ethernet to audio virtual cable that would bridge this issue?  Thanks. JCR 

[alec_eiffel]

Great job @mitchco with the review !

I have been able to try Room Shaper this week-end (confined as most of us I guess....).

Setup:

PC NUC server : Roon Rock

PC DSP : Roon Bridge --> Virtual Cable A --> Foobar / Room Shaper VTS --> Virtual Cable B --> HQPlayer / HAF DRC+2x4 way active filtering + upsampling 8 x 384kHz PCM-poly-sinc-ext2-NS5 + volume control

PC Nuc Player : HQPlayer NAA --> Exasound DAC driver --> USB --> Exasound 8 way DAC E28 --> Amps --> 2x4way DIY dipole speakers 

My room is large, untreated, and quite reverberant, with RT going nuts at >1s below 100Hz... DRC took care of tampering the main modes but I still have huge delays in the bass at certain frequencies.

 

I measured my room with DRC active of course. It took 2 minutes for the plugin to compute.

 

Pros :

- it works beyond expected... waow, really the room DISAPPEARED. 

- especially good on complex electro tracks, drums, 

- no artefact I could hear - no need to compromise with other aspects.

- it is UNIQUE - no other DRC or DSP I know could do this, DIrac, Audiolense, Acourate... 

 

Cons :

- complex to setup in a Roon/HQPlayer environnement. Thus reducing target market to <1% of audiophile (and I am optimistic). A native implementation in Roon or in hardware streaming device would probably help 

- WASAPI requires fix frequency, the audio chain cannot adapt to changing rates (not a Room Shaper limitation). Maybe I should have implemented something with ASIO.

- loss of volume control from Roon, requires HQPlayer Client or DAC volume control, not practicle and 0% WAF and 50% KAF (my son is kinder). Also at the beginning of listening session, Foobar and HQPlayer need to be launched "manually"

- some instabilities : got one crash of Foobar. 

- Doc doesn't mention it but Wasapi Output add-on needs to be added to Foobar for Virtual Cable to work well

 

I bought the plugin!

 

Room Shaper is to me a major and unique innovation in room correction for HiFi, one that you don't see every year... I hope it can find its way in Roon or Streamers/DACs so that anyone with long delays in the bass (i.e. the majority of us) can benefit from it.

 

Thumbs up Thierry! 

 

 

 

 

[mitchco]

Thanks @alec_eiffel And thanks for the write-up! Totally agreed! Thierry @fresponse has done a great job! It is indeed a unique DSP offering like no other. I hope Room Shaper finds its way into commercial products as you mention. It is a fantastic experience to not hear the room resonate. Like I mentioned in the review, the only time I have heard that clean of a bass response in a room is in purpose built studio control rooms where the $ build is in excess of 6 figures. Incredible what innovative DSP can do, especially for the price!

[firedog]

I wish people who've managed to implement it would help beef up the instructions. I still haven't figured out how to get it working with Roon. 

[alec_eiffel]

37 minutes ago, firedog said:

I wish people who've managed to implement it would help beef up the instructions. I still haven't figured out how to get it working with Roon. 

It's quite easy if your endpoint is a Windows PC.

Instructions are provided in the application archive you download, use the "standalone" version.

It gets more complex or impossible in other cases. That's the main limitation.

If you use Audirvana or JRiver implementation is quite straightforward  as these support VST plugins. 

If you want to run a simple test, jsut provide me with your speaker measurements and a sample file and I can build a "processed" file for you that you can have read by Roon, and A/B with the original.

[alec_eiffel]

For information here's my room response, RT60 and decay/frequency. As you can see, some very slow decays in the 20-100Hz range unfortunately, that's were Room Shaper helps a lot to smoothen the decay response which helps the brain to "forget" about the room. 

Measurements were made with HAF "DRC" room correction active, which help to temper modes but can't help to "reshape" decays.

 

[firedog]

18 hours ago, alec_eiffel said:

It's quite easy if your endpoint is a Windows PC.

Instructions are provided in the application archive you download, use the "standalone" version.

 

Don't agree. I'm not technically incompetent and I couldn't get it to work through Roon on Windows. Everything seems to be setup properly, but I don't get sound output. 

It doesn't mean a lot that you think it's quite easy: It's the "clear if already understood" phenomenon-easy when you already know how. 

[R1200CL]

On 4/8/2020 at 10:02 PM, firedog said:

I still haven't figured out how to get it working with Roon. 

It seems more or less impossible. Let’s hope Andrew at SGC maybe with assistance from Miska, can implement something in either HQPlayer embedded  or the SonicOrbiter SW.

I don’t think Roon will support a VST plugin. I think there’s some technical issues. 
 

Another challenge is to convert the SW into Linux, as I understand Thierry isn’t a Linux guy, and I suppose converting into Linux has to be the first step, and someone has to do that work on behalf of Thierry.
 

With Linux sorted out, integration with SonicTransporter / HQPlayer embedded / QNAP and similar may be possible. But I really don’t know.  
 

I can just hope for more people to request for some sort of Roon integration. 
 

 

 

@alec_eiffel

Can you add some understanding of what is needed in order to make this easier to work with Roon ?

[Luchoo]

I've managed to get the Room Shaper working in-between Roon and HQPlayer using the standalone version of the plugin.

 

I found out that there is a newer version fo Soundflower which works on the latest macOS version. It could be downloaded from here - https://www.fluxforge.com/blog/soundflower-os-x-10.11-10.12-macOS-sierra/

 

Once it is installed it will create two new virtual sound devices. One should be used in Roon settings as an Output and the other as an Input in HQPlayer settings. The same should be done in the Room Shaper plugin.