Article: Home Audio Fidelity - Room Shaper Review

[R1200CL]

27 minutes ago, Luchoo said:

I've managed to get the Room Shaper working in-between Roon and HQPlayer using the standalone version of the plugin.

 

I found out that there is a newer version fo Soundflower which works on the latest macOS version. It could be downloaded from here - https://www.fluxforge.com/blog/soundflower-os-x-10.11-10.12-macOS-sierra/

 

Once it is installed it will create two new virtual sound devices. One should be used in Roon settings as an Output and the other as an Input in HQPlayer settings. The same should be done in the Room Shaper plugin.

Please explain what HW you’re using. This still requires a PC ? Can’t use SonicTransporter ?

[Luchoo]

@R1200CL the setup i've described is for Mac. I don't know if you can use the Room Shaper on on SonicTransporter.

[deneb]

@mitchco

Hi Mitchco,  very interesting and informative work as usual, thank you so much

could you please post once again the link to the sweep signals? 

It doesn't  seem to work,

Thank you

 

[mitchco]

Hi @deneb thanks for the kind words. Perhaps Thierry @fresponse can point us to the sweep signals...

[fresponse]

Hi all,

 

The files for REW can be downloaded from here (I removed them when I released my measurement tool...)

 

I take the opportunity to mention that I managed to get Room Shaper running with Roon for the server / end point configurations (like NAS + streamer like microRendu)

A Windows based computer is still needed in the network but not necessarily directly connected to the DAC.

Set-up procedure and required files are available here

 

[deneb]

@mitchco

@fresponse

 

That's  great! Thanks  again!

[fds]

Currently, I am wondering whether it will be possible to use Room Shaper offline. That is I would like to have my audio files processed by Room Shaper before putting them on a music server running on a linux system (such as AudioLinux or Euphony/Stylus or Sonicorbiter). For digital room correction, I know that such possibilities exist (such as AcourateConvoler).  In principle, I do now see why this should not be possible. I guess one could cook up something e.g. by using BlackHole or Soundflower on Mac to some recording software. 

 

With Room Shaper offline treatment of the audio files, it would be possible to benefit directly from its power on a Linux music server without the need for a Windows or a Mac machine ... although I still think that the above solution by @fresponse is great already. Many thanks.

[fresponse]

For windows you can use Foobar to perform different types of conversion, including adding VST effects. You just need to select a playlist (or isolated track) and use the "convert" option accessible with right clicking. In the "convert" menu you can select the output format, naming convention for modified tracks and add a VST plugin in the "processing" sub menu.

[fds]

Excellent @fresponse many thanks for this valuable information. Still looking forward to my first Room Shaper listening test. Will report back.

[lpost]

Wanted to chime in and say what a fine plugin this is! Absorbers large enough to do any good are a non-start in my space. I've used Thierry's xtalk filters for 3 years now and finally sat down to get the Room Shaper integrated into Roon and HQPe.

 

I moved Roon from ROCK to RoonServer on Windows, adding Foobar, virtual cabled, VST support and the Room Shaper plugin of course. Fantastic impact on my room.

 

I do wish the latency wasn't so great but understand it fundamental to operating in the time domain.

 

Well done Thierry. Hopefully other 'players' will work to integrate your excellent work.

[lpost]

I'm struggling with an odd problem with Foobar/VST host/Recorder/Room Shaper setup. That's all I use Foobar for and it stops, not a crash, just stops accepting the stream from Roon after 3 hours 22 minutes. Consistently.  Foobar is still 'playing' just the record time counter stops and the music as well. I can simply click stop/play and it will resume with no other changes.

 

I've tried another VST support component, same problem. I'm currently trying the original 0.1 version of foo_record. I've been unable to find anything but this very old first version and the most current. I'm suspecting foo_record is the culprit. 

 

Has anyone run into this problem and found a solution?

[kohmelo]

6 hours ago, lpost said:

I'm struggling with an odd problem with Foobar/VST host/Recorder/Room Shaper setup. That's all I use Foobar for and it stops, not a crash, just stops accepting the stream from Roon after 3 hours 22 minutes. Consistently.  Foobar is still 'playing' just the record time counter stops and the music as well. I can simply click stop/play and it will resume with no other changes.

 

I've tried another VST support component, same problem. I'm currently trying the original 0.1 version of foo_record. I've been unable to find anything but this very old first version and the most current. I'm suspecting foo_record is the culprit. 

 

Has anyone run into this problem and found a solution?

I haven't used Room Shaper for some time now, but if my memory serves me right, this Foobar setup uses UPnP ?

 

I believe this is caused by restrictions in upnp standards. UPnP requires end time for all tracks/streams it outputs. This Foobar setup doesn't have end time and therefor required end of stream/track gets timed out after 3-4 hours which causes your audio to cut out. I don't think there is any way to solve it at the moment (I could be wrong though...).

[lpost]

Thanks. Yes, it outputs upnp. After careful troubleshooting and communication with the author of foo_record I found that by forcing upnp to send a FLAC stream the WAV 4GB/3-4 hour time limit is removed.  

 

For those that can only use WAV - there's a workaround component here: https://foobar.hyv.fi/?view=foo_upnp_workaround I don't know if it works in my case as I found forcing FLAC resolves it.

 

Why have you stopped using Room Shaper? Found something better or decided all the routing through Foobar plus components was too much?

[kohmelo]

That’s great news and good to know! Room Shaper is one of a kind as far as I know, so there’s no competing DSP plugins that can achieve what this ”little” plugin can do. 

 

I was able (and lucky) to get my room acoustics to a point where Room Shaper is not really needed anymore.

 

Acoustic treatments required to get to this point, took a lot of time and money. Looking back, I almost wish I just kept using Room Shaper instead;) I hated the way it had to be implemented in my audio path, but it worked extremely well.

 

[lpost]

Thanks. I’m back to wav with a script that kills/restarts Foobar every 4.5 hours. Flac wouldn’t resume from stop/pause and lpcm isn’t accepted by HQPe at least not from foobar upnp output.

 

the wav workaround fix seemingly did nothing. Playback still stops with it in the chain.

[lpost]

I found using foo_scheduler to issue 'play' every 4.5 hours is much more elegant than killing and restarting Foobar. 44k@24bit results in 4 hours 30 minutes and 32 seconds of playtime. So 4.5 hours works nicely. There is only a brief pause in the music when it occurs.

[lpost]

This is roughly where it works best in my room. 
 

 

[ecwl]

I have been wondering how this software works since @mitchco reviewed this.

I recently came across this additional convolution filter feature in Acourate:

https://www.audiovero.de/acourateforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=44

I wonder if Room Shaper basically works like Virtual Bass Array

Basically if you have a stable resonance frequency due to the length of your room, you can digitally generate a delayed inverse sound pulse when that frequency is echoing from your music, (kind of like active noise cancellation in headphones) and that wavefront would cancel the echo and reduce the decay time.

The problem of course at least if implemented in Acourate is that it only works for the most stable bass echo along the longitudinal room axis. It is possible Room Shaper came up with other ways to introduce a similar solution for other bass room resonance.

 

But something is better than nothing. Like in my room, adding the Virtual Bass Array convolution/pulse on top of the standard Acourate convolution did reduce the bass resonance at one of the main resonance frequencies and provide more clarity to the music.

[mitchco]

Hi @ecwl cool! Wrt Room Shaper and how it works, I think it best left to Thierry @fresponse to answer.

[fresponse]

Hello @ecwl

You can find some info on how Room Shaper is working here

It is not working as other corrections like the one you mention that will only deal with modes of minimum phase type. 

A good way to describe how Room Shaper works is to use the analogy of a musician that will adapt his playing to the room : if he detects a problematic resonance, he will play some notes softer and shorter

[fresponse]

Hi all,

 

As I have posted in this thread, I have released an upgraded version of Room Shaper.

It is now possible to have a diagnosis of your room perceptual issues and estimate how much will be the correction benefits (the higher the index, the higher the correction benefits)

 

Here is an example of the index for a pretty good room:

 

 

And for one with more issues:

 

 

But the main change is the introduction of a new correction ("impact") to handle all of the different possible room temporal behavior in the low/medium range. The traditional correction with filters is overlooking the temporal aspect as only the amplitude is considered (to have a full representation of a signal, both magnitude and phase are required) There can be phase correction (as I do with my service) but it usually only address phase shifts linked to passive crossovers in speakers.

 

It is very instructive to plot the enveloppe of pure tone test signal at listening position for different frequencies. Using measurements from a customer room, I have selected frequencies to show the main different possible patterns

 

 

It is easy to see the three main parts of the response : the onset, the steady state and the decay after the source has stopped (at 0.4 s)

The steady part level is equivalent to what we get from a frequency response graph. It is quite obvious that making a correction using only this information is not sufficient as music is mostly made of transients and this example is showing that many combinations are possible : slow energy build up but quite high steady state level (112Hz), correct energy build up but low steady state level (89 Hz = anti resonance), etc..

On this example the comparison b/w 89 Hz & 100 Hz is quite self explanatory : the perceived level for a short sound will be quite similar but very different for a longer one.

 

While the first version of Room Shaper was focusing on the energy release part of the response, you now have the possibility to address the different kind of issues for the signal onsets.

 

I hope this technical explanation will spark your curiosity and that will try the "magic",

 

Thierry

 

[taraba55]

Sorry just discover this topic.

 

At present I am using Accourate for DRC. Since my music player ( Jplay Femto ) does not support convolutin , I have to use offline convolution with Accourate NAS  (it took several months to convolve my 12TB digital library.

So I have two questions if deside to switch to JRiver

"Room Shaper can complement any DRC product as it is targeting a different issue (i.e. reducing low frequency decay time) than DRC addresses (i.e. frequency and time domain correction). In my case, I use Audiolense and Acourate. Of course, one can simply use Room Shaper as a standalone VST plugin as DRC is not a requirement. I am using JRiver MC25 as the host for the plugin."

1.Do I need additional software or JRiver ( on windows platform,  Windows Srver 2019 ) can handle both Room Shaper and Accourate Filters at the same time.

2. If yes , how powerful computer I need. My siren computer is quite old Athlon II 45W processor with 8 GB RAM

[fresponse]

Hello @taraba55

 

Yes Jriver dsp studio can handle convolution filters and Room shaper together. Your processing power should be sufficient and you can make a test as Room shaper is fully functionnal in demo mode.

[fresponse]

Hello,

 

I have made some new changes on Room Shaper (corrections, new feature) and you can find more info here

Cheers,

Thierry

[audiocrazy]

I've added Room Shaper to my Roon setup. It has really transformed my music listening experience. The bass is so refined that I could not believe its the same speakers (Salk Sound SS8).

Here is my audio chain

Roon Core (Win 10 PC)->VB-Cable(WASPI)->Foobar(VST Plugin, Recorder 192/24)->ultraRendu(MPD/DLNA)->Schiit Yggy DAC->Freya+Preamp->Amp

 

Currently there is no way to send source sample rate to DAC using Foobar2k and all the input is converted to sample rate of Recorder (192/24) in FB2k. 

 

However VB-Cable has Internal Sample Rate of max 96Khz. In Windows Sound Control I've set it to 192/24.

Does it down converter to 96/24 and then to 192/24?

If yes is there any other option to prevent double conversion?

 

I have tried  Hi-Fi cable with ASIO bridge and ASIO OFF but I get garbled voice