EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Cable Monkey]

39 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Any chance the clock input can be upgraded to a sine wave ?

 

 

The present version works with a sine wave.

[simon_pepper]

11 hours ago, Johnnydev said:

Try the purple fuse 👍

But in doing so, all other fuses in the system will need to be upgraded - most are Reds, from when they were released over the Blacks which over the SRs.

 

Where's the top of this rabbithole again?

[JohnSwenson]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Any chance the clock input can be upgraded to a sine wave ?

 

 

There are pretty severe space and power constraints on the existing ER. Currently there is no room and no power for a good sine to square converter. The new version is a complete re-design, I have no idea how we are going to wind up space and power wise so I can't say whether it can happen or not.

 

John S.

[agladstone]

23 hours ago, Larold said:

Mihaylov

 

Great to hear that Ether-Regen are available again. But I understand nothing about your answers, or that of anyone else on this thread, and what motivates them. I am not going to do anything without some degree of understanding about why I am making any particular choice. I have 50 years experience as an audiophile, but not so much in this digital domain.

 

If I had two Ether-Regen's available to address the configuration I am trying to create, why would I wire them in series, as you have suggested, as opposed to wiring them in parallel, as I suggested yesterday?

 

Why would series wiring work?

 

Why would that be superior to parallel wiring of the same hardware?

 

Please advise.

 

Thank yoo.

 

Larold

I think given the current situation and inability to order a second EtherRegen, just swap the Ethernet cable from B side to either the UltraRendu or the Node depending on which you want to listen to, shouldn’t take longer than 10 seconds to do it, definitely the easiest and most affordable option! 

[Larold]

Thank you, Mihaylov. That may be what I do.

 

Still trying to understand the situation, as I am new to digital streaming configurations.

 

I appreciate your help.

 

Larold

[Liam]

@Superdad I have a Keces DC-116 12v and 5v outputs 3amp regulated psu I would like to try with EtherREGEN. Only 12v output to be used. There is no continuity between barrel of connector and earth pin on plug (UK) type.  I’m using a AfterDark EtherREGEN cable on both the A and B sides of EtherREGEN, ie no screens continuities. A 6ft. cable directly from wifi extender is connected to A side.

 

Did I understand correctly (I seem to recall) that if there is only one item connected to A side that leakage is not an issue?  Sorry if this is belabouring a query already covered. 

 

 

[Liam]

On 3/14/2022 at 1:37 PM, Liam said:

@Superdad I have a Keces DC-116 12v and 5v outputs 3amp regulated psu I would like to try with EtherREGEN. Only 12v output to be used. There is no continuity between barrel of connector and earth pin on plug (UK) type.  I’m using a AfterDark EtherREGEN cable on both the A and B sides of EtherREGEN, ie no screens continuities. A 6ft. cable directly from wifi extender is connected to A side.

 

Did I understand correctly (I seem to recall) that if there is only one item connected to A side that leakage is not an issue?  Sorry if this is belabouring a query already covered. 

 

 

I went ahead and connected up the DC-116. Initially there was a small potential on the EtherREGEN case, determined by light touching.  Running an earth from the EtherREGEN ground connection resolved that completely.  I would conclude some overall improvements in smoothness, air, weight and resolution. 

[Mike Rubin]

I use the B to A setup, with only an SFP on the A side. I recall that connecting other things to rj45 ports on the A side won't afford the ER's benefits to those other connections, but what I don't recall is whether doing that would adversely the SFP connection. 

 

I need another rj45 in my audio cabinet for my new-ish DAC and I am trying to avoid adding another switch.  If I could connect to the ER and do no harm to the SFP and that rj45, that could be the more efficient, if less elegant, solution.  

 

What compromises would I be making if I added the DAC to the A side in a B-to-A configuration? 

 

[André Gosselin]

52 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

What compromises would I be making if I added the DAC to the A side in a B-to-A configuration? 

I have been using such a config for 2 years since I purchased the EtherRegen without any SQ issue:

  router > B side RJ45 port

  sonore optical rendu > A side SFP port  (using the Moon780Dv2 as a usb DAC)

  Moon 780Dv2 DAC/streamer > A side RJ45 port

 

 

 

[Mike Rubin]

26 minutes ago, André Gosselin said:

I have been using such a config for 2 years since I purchased the EtherRegen without any SQ issue:

  router > B side RJ45 port

  sonore optical rendu > A side SFP port  (using the Moon780Dv2 as a usb DAC)

  Moon 780Dv2 DAC/streamer > A side RJ45 port

 

 

 

Thank you, André. 

[GryphonGuy]

5 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

I use the B to A setup, with only an SFP on the A side. I recall that connecting other things to rj45 ports on the A side won't afford the ER's benefits to those other connections, but what I don't recall is whether doing that would adversely the SFP connection. 

 

I need another rj45 in my audio cabinet for my new-ish DAC and I am trying to avoid adding another switch.  If I could connect to the ER and do no harm to the SFP and that rj45, that could be the more efficient, if less elegant, solution.  

 

What compromises would I be making if I added the DAC to the A side in a B-to-A configuration? 

 

 

Assuming the optical is your main network link to your current DAC, if you add an output device on the "A" side, it will not have signals crossing the magical ER moat so it will be as though there is no ER in the mix for the DAC connected on the "A" side where the optical is connected.

 

I bit the bullet and purchased an ER for every device I wanted filtered. Effectively treating the ER as a 1-port in 1-port out device. So my PC's audio goes through an ER and the separate ADC/DAC goes through another.

 

Regards

GG

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Assuming the optical is your main network link to your current DAC, if you add an output device on the "A" side, it will not have signals crossing the magical ER moat so it will be as though there is no ER in the mix for the DAC connected on the "A" side where the optical is connected.

 

I bit the bullet and purchased an ER for every device I wanted filtered. Effectively treating the ER as a 1-port in 1-port out device. So my PC's audio goes through an ER and the separate ADC/DAC goes through another.

 

Regards

GG

That's definitely a logical way to go, but I am about out of hifi pin money at this point. 

 

My Okto Stereo 8 DAC allows me to connect my primary source, a Sonore Signature SE Optical, to the USB connection at the same the DAC's internal streamer is connected to the ethernet by copper. 

 

Because the Sonore sounds a ton better than the Pi 4-based internal streamer, I use the latter just as a backup when the Sonore gets temperamental (which, unfortunately, happens periodically).  As the internal streamer isn't going to play that often, I don't want to spend nearly another grand for ER and LPS.

 

A simple ethernet connection probably is enough for this application. So long as connecting another device to the A side doesn't undermine the SFP's performance, I don't mind that, as to the DAC connection, the ER isn't better than the $19 Netgear that is the alternative.  I am out of power conditioner outlets, so repurposing existing electrical connections is another consideration. 

[JohnSwenson]

5 hours ago, André Gosselin said:

I have been using such a config for 2 years since I purchased the EtherRegen without any SQ issue:

  router > B side RJ45 port

  sonore optical rendu > A side SFP port  (using the Moon780Dv2 as a usb DAC)

  Moon 780Dv2 DAC/streamer > A side RJ45 port

 

 

 

For questions like this you need to remember that the ER deal with two separate issues that can affect your system: leakage current and clock phase noise.

 

If you are using optical to the DAC then leakage current is of course blocked, BUT the phase noise issues are only dealt with if the signal is crossing the moat. Thus putting other signals on the A side MAY (not always will, just maybe) may affect the phase noise of the optical signal.

 

Also remember that this does NOT mean that just connecting anything else to the A side will guarantee the optical signal will be awful!. There are some scenarios where such a connection might have an impact, but it is very hard to predict. Just because someone else says it made no difference in their system, does not mean it will no effect in your. Of course the other way is also true, if someone else says it does degrade their system, does not mean it will degrade yours.

 

Trying it in YOUR system with your components is the only way to really know. So it seems to me you have two choices, make sure you don't put anything else on the A side so you won't have the issue at all, OR go ahead and try it and see if the extra A connection connection is better than the other alternatives.

 

John S.

[Mike Rubin]

Thanks, John. Easy enough to experiment. 

[barbz]

Hi all,

 

Considering the below setup should the ER be powered from the wall circuit (ie outside of the power re-generator) or from the re-generator?
 

Further to this, and theoretical here; if I was to add a Mutec mc3-usb and ref10 after the K30, is there any concerns in using the ref10 clock for the ER?

 

Thankyou

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, barbz said:

Considering the below setup should the ER be powered from the wall circuit (ie outside of the power re-generator) or from the re-generator?

It won't matter much as far as where you plug in the PS for the EtherREGEN.  But I am concerned that you might be describing a set up where the LAN cable from the 'B' port of the EtherREGEN to your K30 is longer than about 8 feet.  It is best to keep that connection short (by placing the EtherREGEN near your endpoint) as Ethernet cables longer than about 8-feet activate additional DSP circuits in the PHY/receiver chips of connected devices (John Swenson literally was deeply involved of the design of PHY chips at some big chip companies so he knows this)--and that runs counter to the goals of the EtherREGEN. 

 

6 minutes ago, barbz said:

Further to this, and theoretical here; if I was to add a Mutec mc3-usb and ref10 after the K30, is there any concerns in using the ref10 clock for the ER?

No problem at all. That will be quite nice! The Mutec REF10 is one the very best reference clocks on the market. 

[barbz]

23 minutes ago, Superdad said:

It won't matter much as far as where you plug in the PS for the EtherREGEN.  But I am concerned that you might be describing a set up where the LAN cable from the 'B' port of the EtherREGEN to your K30 is longer than about 8 feet.  It is best to keep that connection short (by placing the EtherREGEN near your endpoint) as Ethernet cables longer than about 8-feet activate additional DSP circuits in the PHY/receiver chips of connected devices (John Swenson literally was deeply involved of the design of PHY chips at some big chip companies so he knows this)--and that runs counter to the goals of the EtherREGEN. 

 

Thankyou

Regardless of where the power is coming from I can get away with a short ethernet (0.8m or less) lead between the ER and K30. 2 or 3m fibre tail between the switch and the A side of the ER.

Ref10 is more for future considerations (or when I win the lotto)

[barbz]

On the topic of power is there any harm in using a dual rail power supply to power both the switch and the ER?

 

The rails in this PSU are independent of one another and the LPSU itself uses a floating ground rather than a ground pin on the GPO connection.

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, barbz said:

On the topic of power is there any harm in using a dual rail power supply to power both the switch and the ER?

 

The rails in this PSU are independent of one another and the LPSU itself uses a floating ground rather than a ground pin on the GPO connection.

In your case it will be fine.

[barbz]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

In your case it will be fine.

Thank you - out of curiosity is this down to the separate circuits and floating ground?

[Superdad]

16 hours ago, barbz said:

Thank you - out of curiosity is this down to the separate circuits and floating ground?

Several factors:

a) Power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A' side domain (the 'B' side receives power also, but over an isolating converter)--and your Mirotik switch is also on that upstream/'A' side.  So you are not defeating the EtherREGEN's A>B active-differential Isolation moat.

 

b) Just because the Geiseler's outputs are "floated"--meaning the -VE/0-Volt "ground" shells are not connected to ACC mains ground--does not necessarily mean that its two outputs do not share common -VE/"ground" with each other.  But due to "a)" above, it does not matter.

[Liam]

@Superdad I found when initially connecting my Keces DC-116 dual 12v and 5v psu to the EtherRegen that there was some potential on the case of the EtherRegen (felt by running finger lightly over the case) until I ran an earth wire back to the Keces earth pin.  The Keces DC-116 is not otherwise earthed via the dc connector barrel.

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, Liam said:

@Superdad I found when initially connecting my Keces DC-116 dual 12v and 5v psu to the EtherRegen that there was some potential on the case of the EtherRegen (felt by running finger lightly over the case) until I ran an earth wire back to the Keces earth pin.  The Keces DC-116 is not otherwise earthed via the dc connector barrel.

 

My recollection of the Keces DC-116 (an early model for that brand) was that it did not have fully independent -VE/0-volt "grounds" for its two rails. So perhaps you were feeling on the EtherREGEN case some AC leakage currents coming back to it from the other device you are powering.

Another possibility is that you were feeling AC leaking coming in on the Ethernet cables attached to your 'A' ports. Are those cables "shield-tied" (metal shells where the cable shield drain wire is attached at both ends)? 

Must be some strong leakage if you can feel it with your touch. Hard to know without making some tests with a meter.

 

In any case, nothing makes it across our active-differential A>B isolation moat.  And there is no harm in utilizing the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN.

[Liam]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

My recollection of the Keces DC-116 (an early model for that brand) was that it did not have fully independent -VE/0-volt "grounds" for its two rails. So perhaps you were feeling on the EtherREGEN case some AC leakage currents coming back to it from the other device you are powering.

Another possibility is that you were feeling AC leaking coming in on the Ethernet cables attached to your 'A' ports. Are those cables "shield-tied" (metal shells where the cable shield drain wire is attached at both ends)? 

Must be some strong leakage if you can feel it with your touch. Hard to know without making some tests with a meter.

 

In any case, nothing makes it across our active-differential A>B isolation moat.  And there is no harm in utilizing the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN.

Sorry I should have been clear that the 5v output of the DC-116 is not in use.  The shields of the Ethernet cables (AfterDark) are not tied on the destination ends on either the A or B sides and the voltage potential was not present when using your own PSU which is earthed.  Seems to confirm the DC-116 was the 'culprit'.

[simon_pepper]

Question re. Optical isolation with an EtherREGEN

 

I have the EtherREGEN providing the network switch duties for my Streaming Audio playback.
On the 'A' Ports there is the connection to the folllowing:
1. Backend Data storage servers (Primary & Backup NAS units), ROCK server, Internet access (Modem with separate Router)

2. Sonore UltraRendu running Sonore UPnP Bridge (powered by an UltraCap LPS 1 @7v)

3. RPi2 running Asset UPnP server (for backup) (powered by 5v LPS)

4. Apple ATV

On the 'B' ports there is the connection to my Naim NDS Network Player

EtherREGEN is powered by Farad Super3 PSU @ 12v with an additional Dual stage triple LT3045 arrangement (input 12v and output 10v) and Earthed to the post on a Russ Andrews Purifier Block

 

Is there need or benefit, from going to an Optical connection on the connection #1 (the backend data storage), which is the feed into the EtherREGEN, or is the isolation of the Port 'A' connections, plus the Port 'A' to Port 'B' moat enough to stop any noise coming in on that connection from getting into the Network Player connection?
I would need a Media Convertor with STP cage, a STP module for the EtherREGEN and a short length of fibre.

Do I leave it as it, and sounding might fine may I say, and stop tinkering - or experiment with some optical isolation?