EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Mihaylov]

10 hours ago, willyhot said:

It actually have posted earlier in this thread:

 

I also tried to update the simple diagram for my current setup as attached.

Using the BG7TBL as an external clock for both the ER and Mutec is not the best solution so the galvanic isolation of the ER from Mutec is disrupted. This is due to the fact that all BG7TBL outputs share a common ground. It is better to purchase another BG7TBL or similar and one output is enough.

[willyhot]

13 hours ago, Mihaylov said:

Using the BG7TBL as an external clock for both the ER and Mutec is not the best solution so the galvanic isolation of the ER from Mutec is disrupted. This is due to the fact that all BG7TBL outputs share a common ground. It is better to purchase another BG7TBL or similar and one output is enough.

Thanks comment.  Do you mean if I only use the BG7TBL on ER in this case should solve the issue?

[R1200CL]

20 minutes ago, willyhot said:

Thanks comment.  Do you mean if I only use the BG7TBL on ER in this case should solve the issue?

That’s not what he’s saying. It won’t solve your network issues. First make the EtherRegen work without the external clock. Then attach the clock. Only use the clock on EtherRegen. For reason explained by @Mihaylov 

 

Also how are you powering you clock ? It shall not share PS with other items. Or at least not with equipment downstream the EtherRegen. 
 

What switch are you using ?

Are you able to test with a cable direct from the switch to EtherRegen?

(assuming that wall has a connection). 
Can you also test connection direct from router to EtherRegen (bypassing the switch). 

[barbz]

Isn't the clock on the ER on the clean/B side of the moat?

 

Shouldn't it be ok to share the clock with the mutec?

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, barbz said:

Isn't the clock on the ER on the clean/B side of the moat?

Yes it is. 

 

3 hours ago, barbz said:

Shouldn't it be ok to share the clock with the mutec?

To fully answer this as correctly as possible , we must know exactly how things is powered. It may work very well. 
 

I do something similar myself. Share the clock. But has invested in a second clock, just not installed yet. 

[Mihaylov]

7 hours ago, barbz said:

Isn't the clock on the ER on the clean/B side of the moat?

 

Shouldn't it be ok to share the clock with the mutec?

It's not about preserving the moat in this case - the moat will remain even if the BG7TBL is used for both the ER and the Mutec at the same time. The question is to maintain the galvanic isolation that the usual correct ethernet connection gives because there the signal is transmitted through the separation transformers and there is no common electrical ground, i.e. the electric grounds ER and Mutec do not have to be connected through the common ground of the outputs of the BG7TBL (or any other external clock in which the outputs have a common ground).

[willyhot]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:54 PM, R1200CL said:

That’s not what he’s saying. It won’t solve your network issues. First make the EtherRegen work without the external clock. Then attach the clock. Only use the clock on EtherRegen. For reason explained by @Mihaylov 

 

Also how are you powering you clock ? It shall not share PS with other items. Or at least not with equipment downstream the EtherRegen. 
 

What switch are you using ?

Are you able to test with a cable direct from the switch to EtherRegen?

(assuming that wall has a connection). 
Can you also test connection direct from router to EtherRegen (bypassing the switch). 

1. the clock is powered by a 12V LPS, and yes this LPS only serve this clock which mean ER has another one.

2. my switch: UniFi Switch Enterprise 8 PoE

3. Not yet tested from router/switch directly to ER, only tested from wall (yes my wall has a connection) directly to streamer (bypassing ER).

[willyhot]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:54 PM, R1200CL said:

That’s not what he’s saying. It won’t solve your network issues. First make the EtherRegen work without the external clock. Then attach the clock. Only use the clock on EtherRegen. For reason explained by @Mihaylov 

 

I hope so too, but at the moment after switching back to INT clock on the ER, the issue still exist. 

[willyhot]

Tried to connect the ER directly to my switch and it works.  so what could this be happaned and what can I do now?

 

1. before adding the BG7TBL, I have been using this wall connection method with ER for over a year without any connection issue.

2. even though I reset ER to INT clock now, I cannot get the wall connection method in #1 work again.

3. for everyday use, I cannot bypass the wall connection and run a direct connection from my switch.

4. my wall connection still works fine with directly connect to my streamer, TV, set top box.  

5. borrowed from my friend a TP-link switch and it works with my wall connection.  very strange or is ER so sensitive?

6. @Superdaddear Alex, do you think my ER has faults in this case?

[R1200CL]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:17 PM, willyhot said:

UniFi Switch Enterprise 8 PoE

All ports PoE ? Can you turn off PoE ?

Is the switch managed (has a UI). If so, activate Flow Control. 

[R1200CL]

11 hours ago, willyhot said:

5. borrowed from my friend a TP-link switch and it works with my wall connection. 

And if the uniFi can’t managed, I guess you have a solution 😀

Purchase the cheapest switch you can find. Or this used Cisco 2960T talked about elsewhere. 

[Superdad]

On 7/20/2022 at 5:51 AM, willyhot said:

My ER used to have disconnecting issue but has been resolved and worked perfectly for over a year until yesterday after I added a BG7TBL.

 

I followed the steps on last page of user guide "The sequence to utilize an external reference clock with the EtherREGEN" while adding the BG7TBL.  But it failed:

 

1. The port light (A side) of the LAN cable from my router don't even light on anymore.  (neither my router side, the port light on router also off, meaning no signal?)  The port light of the streamer still blinks but of course with NO IP.

 

2. I tried unplugging power of ER for 10-15 mins, tried connect streamer to "A" instead of "B", still no luck.

 

Can anyone help?  Thanks!!

 

BTW, I tried plugging the LAN cable mentioned in 1 directly to my streamer and it works which means my router is working fine.

But the worst, I tried to switch back to INT clock on the ER, the issue still resume. 😭

 

On 7/20/2022 at 6:37 AM, willyhot said:

Thanks reply.  Yes, I turned off ER every time when setting the INT/EXT switch of ER.

 

On 7/20/2022 at 6:57 AM, willyhot said:

I don't think my BG7TBL is bad since I can clearly hear the difference when it connected to my Mutec MC3+USB (I used the Mutec to reclock then to my DAC) using the same streamer.

 

On 7/23/2022 at 1:41 AM, willyhot said:

Thanks comment.  Do you mean if I only use the BG7TBL on ER in this case should solve the issue?

 

On 7/24/2022 at 3:17 AM, willyhot said:

1. the clock is powered by a 12V LPS, and yes this LPS only serve this clock which mean ER has another one.

2. my switch: UniFi Switch Enterprise 8 PoE

3. Not yet tested from router/switch directly to ER, only tested from wall (yes my wall has a connection) directly to streamer (bypassing ER).

 

On 7/24/2022 at 3:25 AM, willyhot said:

I hope so too, but at the moment after switching back to INT clock on the ER, the issue still exist. 

 

14 hours ago, willyhot said:

Tried to connect the ER directly to my switch and it works.  so what could this be happaned and what can I do now?

 

1. before adding the BG7TBL, I have been using this wall connection method with ER for over a year without any connection issue.

2. even though I reset ER to INT clock now, I cannot get the wall connection method in #1 work again.

3. for everyday use, I cannot bypass the wall connection and run a direct connection from my switch.

4. my wall connection still works fine with directly connect to my streamer, TV, set top box.  

5. borrowed from my friend a TP-l

ink switch and it works with my wall connection.  very strange or is ER so sensitive?

6. @Superdaddear Alex, do you think my ER has faults in this case?

 

Hi:

I am sorry, but despite having read all your posts (and viewing your diagram) I am still confused about what the trouble is that you are experiencing and reporting.

I very much doubt that there is any defect in your EtherREGEN (such is extremely rare)--and generally the model either works fully or fails to work entirely (say from a blown voltage regulator). Though if you contact me directly with name so I can date your order, there is a chance that you will benefit from a newer firmware (not the one on the web site).

 

If you suspect a functional problem with your EtherREGEN, please test it just as a switch, separate from your audio system. And also try different Ethernet cables (#1 cause of people's issues).

 

To test your EtherREGEN just as a switch—without your streamer—follow these steps in order:

1) Be sure that the Clock switch of the EtherREGEN is in the INT position.

2) Remove power from the EtherREGEN and using the UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter reapply power to it.

3) Attach network feed into an ‘A’ side port. You should see an amber LED flickering over that port. 

4) Attach a (powered on) standard computer with display screen into ‘B’ side.  Wait a moment and you should see the green LED flickering.

5) Launch a web browser and try to browse internet with that computer. Run that for a while and report if there is interruption of internet.

 

Report all results (including if the LEDs look different than above).

If you are unable to get on the internet with your computer attached to the ‘B’ port, try moving the computer to one of the ‘A’ side ports—alongside your network feed.  Again report results.

EtherREGEN is an unmanaged switch and should just work. If you can not get computer onto the internet through the EtherREGEN, then please try different LAN cables—both to the EtherREGEN from router and to computer from EtherREGEN.

 

If you can get on the internet through the above tests, then we can move on to other difficulties.

 

We look forward to knowing the results of your testing and to assisting you further.

--Alex C.

[Markus8]

On 6/7/2022 at 7:16 PM, Superdad said:

 

That's two questions in one sentence so I'll break my answer into two:

 

A) While we will continue to use the best techniques possible (all differential clocking lines, ultra-low-jitter 10GHz-capable reclocking flip-flops, a dozen LT3045/42 voltage regulators, etc.), no SQ comparison between the first generation EtherREGEN and generation 2 is yet possible as the boards are still in prototype stage (getting Ethernet switch core fully running on Efinix FPGA platform must take place before we can move to next steps of boards with isolation and multi-clock synthesis).

Any update on this as the development has progressed nicely you mentioned recently. 

[willyhot]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:37 AM, Superdad said:

Hi:

I am sorry, but despite having read all your posts (and viewing your diagram) I am still confused about what the trouble is that you are experiencing and reporting.

I very much doubt that there is any defect in your EtherREGEN (such is extremely rare)--and generally the model either works fully or fails to work entirely (say from a blown voltage regulator). Though if you contact me directly with name so I can date your order, there is a chance that you will benefit from a newer firmware (not the one on the web site).

 

If you suspect a functional problem with your EtherREGEN, please test it just as a switch, separate from your audio system. And also try different Ethernet cables (#1 cause of people's issues).

 

To test your EtherREGEN just as a switch—without your streamer—follow these steps in order:

1) Be sure that the Clock switch of the EtherREGEN is in the INT position.

2) Remove power from the EtherREGEN and using the UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter reapply power to it.

3) Attach network feed into an ‘A’ side port. You should see an amber LED flickering over that port. 

4) Attach a (powered on) standard computer with display screen into ‘B’ side.  Wait a moment and you should see the green LED flickering.

5) Launch a web browser and try to browse internet with that computer. Run that for a while and report if there is interruption of internet.

 

Report all results (including if the LEDs look different than above).

If you are unable to get on the internet with your computer attached to the ‘B’ port, try moving the computer to one of the ‘A’ side ports—alongside your network feed.  Again report results.

EtherREGEN is an unmanaged switch and should just work. If you can not get computer onto the internet through the EtherREGEN, then please try different LAN cables—both to the EtherREGEN from router and to computer from EtherREGEN.

 

If you can get on the internet through the above tests, then we can move on to other difficulties.

 

We look forward to knowing the results of your testing and to assisting you further.

--Alex C.

Thanks Alex for the firmware and please excuse my late report:

 

1. Firmware successfully updated, thanks again.

2. Tried to test ER with streamer first: After connecting the new firmwared (INT position and powered by UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter) ER to the wall connection (link to a PoE switch in anther room) by a LAN cable into an "A" side port, no light over that port. connect with a computer into either "A" or "B", no IP and internet. Thus identified as not functioning properly.

3. follow your above steps to set EtherREGEN just as a switch—without streamer.  connecting to my PoE switch (mentioned in no.2) directly with a LAN cable, feed into an ‘A’ side port, an amber LED flickering over that port.  IP and internet using a computer for testing, OK.

4. now, people including myself may think: my wall connection must be broken /defects

5. Then, I try the very same wall connection LAN cable (no.2) to directly connect to my streamer, TV, set top box.  all test OK and streaming smoothly.

 

end of report.  and thanks again for your help.

[Superdad]

15 hours ago, willyhot said:

2. Tried to test ER with streamer first: After connecting the new firmwared (INT position and powered by UpTone-branded 36W AC>DC adapter) ER to the wall connection (link to a PoE switch in anther room) by a LAN cable into an "A" side port, no light over that port.

 

15 hours ago, willyhot said:

3. follow your above steps to set EtherREGEN just as a switch—without streamer.  connecting to my PoE switch (mentioned in no.2) directly with a LAN cable, feed into an ‘A’ side port, an amber LED flickering over that port.  IP and internet using a computer for testing, OK.

 

I am confused: What is the difference between 2. and 3. above?  When you plug a LAN cable from your network into an 'A' side port, do you get any amber LED activity above that port or not?

 

15 hours ago, willyhot said:

4. now, people including myself may think: my wall connection must be broken /defects

5. Then, I try the very same wall connection LAN cable (no.2) to directly connect to my streamer, TV, set top box.  all test OK and streaming smoothly.

 

end of report.  and thanks again for your help.

 

If the EtherREGEN functions--with network feed into 'A' port and computer in 'B' port such that you can get onto the internet with computer browser, then there is no defect of the EtherREGEN.  If it works with computer but not with your streamer then you must give all details of what your streamer is, and where is the music server, and what player software your are using.

[GryphonGuy]

It sounds like the streamer has some sort of issue since your computer works as normal through the ER as reported in step 3.

 

Did you restart the streamer electrically (Power down then power up) after you plugged it into the  ER side "A"? It may not be dynamically handshaking to the new switch connection for some reason.

[willyhot]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

I am confused: What is the difference between 2. and 3. above?  When you plug a LAN cable from your network into an 'A' side port, do you get any amber LED activity above that port or not?

Sorry for the confusion, please refer to my diagram attached, hope it helps.

 

for the amber LED question: 

2. NO

3. YES

[willyhot]

3 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

It sounds like the streamer has some sort of issue since your computer works as normal through the ER as reported in step 3.

 

Did you restart the streamer electrically (Power down then power up) after you plugged it into the  ER side "A"? It may not be dynamically handshaking to the new switch connection for some reason.

Thanks GryphonGuy (I also use Gryphon!)

 

I doubted it is streamer issue.  The streamer works in step 5 which exactly same as 2 (just without ER).  And I beleive it will still work in step 3.

 

Yes, I restarted the streamer for so many times including by power switch and by pulling out the power cable.

[GryphonGuy]

Gryphon Audio is sooooo expensive these days but oh so state-of-the-art. One of the top brands of the world that USA does not seem to take up but the rest of the world dreams of Gryphon Audio.

 

Anyway....back to your problem

 

From your posts it appears there are 5 untested potential failure points because the ER works in scenario 3.

• The cable from switch to wall socket A
• The cable from wall socket B to the ER
• The wall socket A itself
• The wall socket B itself; or
• the cable in the wall connecting Socket A to B.

If you've done all that then I am out of ideas. Sorry.

[willyhot]

4 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

• The cable from switch to wall socket A

yes, it is the same cable used to test in scenario 3 (from switch to ER)... so the cable is OK

4 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

• The cable from wall socket B to the ER

yes, this is the same cable used to test in 5 (from socket B to streamer)... so the cable is OK

4 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

• The wall socket A itself
• The wall socket B itself; or
• the cable in the wall connecting Socket A to B.

yes, I really want to test these too, but I don't know how.  any suggestion?

[GryphonGuy]

21 hours ago, willyhot said:

yes, it is the same cable used to test in scenario 3 (from switch to ER)... so the cable is OK

yes, this is the same cable used to test in 5 (from socket B to streamer)... so the cable is OK

yes, I really want to test these too, but I don't know how.  any suggestion?

 

Oh time to call an electrician with communication cables specialty that has the rj45 testing gear available if it is something to do with the wall and its outlets.

I suppose you could try unscrewing the outlets to see if any of the fine wires are broken/disconnected as a start. But I would be looking up communication cabling guys in your area if it were me.

 

Regards

GG

[BCRich]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:55 PM, GryphonGuy said:

Oh time to call an electrician with communication cables specialty that has the rj45 testing gear available if it is something to do with the wall and its outlets.

Order a LAN Tester from Amazon; way cheaper

[willyhot]

On 7/23/2022 at 3:31 AM, Mihaylov said:

Using the BG7TBL as an external clock for both the ER and Mutec is not the best solution so the galvanic isolation of the ER from Mutec is disrupted. This is due to the fact that all BG7TBL outputs share a common ground. It is better to purchase another BG7TBL or similar and one output is enough.

Just curious about the clock thing, it just too technical for me😅 (or maybe there any recommended thread I can read to understanding better?)

 

May I ask for the 2 cases below, what would be better/correct?  

 

1. go for 2 BG7TBL, 1 for ER and 1 for Mutec (CLK IN).

2. BG7TBL to Mutec, let Mutec reclock, then CLK out to ER

[Mihaylov]

14 hours ago, willyhot said:

1. go for 2 BG7TBL, 1 for ER and 1 for Mutec (CLK IN).

That's the right option.

14 hours ago, willyhot said:

2. BG7TBL to Mutec, let Mutec reclock, then CLK out to ER

This is the wrong option from the point of view of galvanic isolation because by giving a clock signal from Mutec to ER you will connect their lands.

[richard_crl032]

Hi Alex and others,

 

Need help here for review if I am "breaking the moat" and any recommendations to guide me in the use and further audition of the 2 etheregen units with 2 external oxco clock .... before my Antipodes CX server and between it with the Antipodes EX player.

 

Tried my best to check the below schematic as accurate as possible and hope sufficiently clear.

 

1. Am I breaking the moat especially with the ER#2 despite having the LPS ?

2. Would I preserve the "moat" if I connect the LPS for the OXCO clock#2 to the 20A line/Isotransformer#1 which also powers the OXCO clock#1 or to the 30A/Isotransformer #2 that powers the ERs' stock PSUs?

3. Any recommendation please

 

My current limited understanding is that it will be ok for the power line to ER to be same as the external clock which my ER#2 seems to violates but I had started using the 2X isotransformers in hope to keep digital and analog separate which is already clearly not the case now anyhow.

 

Many thanks and cheers.

 

 

 

 

Uptone ER Schematic.pdf