Ayre QB-9 Twenty upgrade

[Yoram Diamand]

Hi, as I understood, the Purifier was meant for Dacs till 500 dollar, the micro should be better, but iFi said in a forum, a Lumin U1 mini with Sbooster would be the more highend solution. $$$

[PrTv]

At 640-ish hours mark here (I left it on all the time since I got it... except for short power off to change fuse)... Now I think it's better with details / textures and speed as expected... but to be frank, I can't tell to which extent it is better comparing with the DSD version, as I have replaced LCD-X with Utopia and Empyrean. Anyway... with the Utopia, the harshness seems to reduce now comparing with the first day I got it back from upgrade (but not completely flawless given the nature of the headphones that has 6Khz peak).

 

Well... back to the topic, I plan to run it for 4-5 more days and will stop this marathon break-in.

[EicoMan]

My name is Gordon and evidently I'm a Ayre QB-9 addict.  I've owned the original, the DSD version and now the Twenty.

 

The Twenty is simply stunning.  As others have commented, it maintains Ayre's signature "natural and right" sound signature while further opening up the soundstage and revealing even more detail, texture and overall musical depth.

 

On a less fun note, I'm having a few technical challenges with the QB9 Twenty and Audirvana 3.5 on my MacBook Pro.

 

First and foremost, I can't get the QB9 Twenty to recognize DSD.  The DAC was updated in August of 2020, so I think it has the latest firmware.

 

If anyone has a QB9 Twenty playing DSD from Audirvana 3.5, please let me know the Audio Settings you're using.

 

Thanks for the help!  I love the Twenty.  It's incredible.

[barrows]

33 minutes ago, EicoMan said:

My name is Gordon and evidently I'm a Ayre QB-9 addict.  I've owned the original, the DSD version and now the Twenty.

 

The Twenty is simply stunning.  As others have commented, it maintains Ayre's signature "natural and right" sound signature while further opening up the soundstage and revealing even more detail, texture and overall musical depth.

 

On a less fun note, I'm having a few technical challenges with the QB9 Twenty and Audirvana 3.5 on my MacBook Pro.

 

First and foremost, I can't get the QB9 Twenty to recognize DSD.  The DAC was updated in August of 2020, so I think it has the latest firmware.

 

If anyone has a QB9 Twenty playing DSD from Audirvana 3.5, please let me know the Audio Settings you're using.

 

Thanks for the help!  I love the Twenty.  It's incredible.

Make sure you are sending DSD as DoP, otherwise it will not work with a direct USB connection from a Mac.

[PrTv]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

Make sure you are sending DSD as DoP, otherwise it will not work with a direct USB connection from a Mac.

Like he said... this setting should allow Dac to recognize and playback DSD without problem... but maximum bitrate is DSD 128 due to limitation of DoP requiring doubling PCM bit rate to deliver DSD. If you play anything higher than DSD128, DAC will go into PCM352 mode then I dont know how it affects SQ as I have no way to test it against native DSD.

 

[EicoMan]

Thank you barrows and PrTv!

 

Unfortunately, I made the suggested change under Active Device to “DSD over PCM 1.1” and it still doesn’t work.  I do not want to turn this thread into my personal help desk, so let me ask a broader question.

 

What Audirvana settings have you found to be the best with the QB9 Twenty; upsampling or not, etc.?

 

Or, is there another program that folks prefer with the QB9 Twenty?  I am looking to replace Decibel and don’t think I need the capabilities of Roon.

[EicoMan]

After a round of listening tests this weekend, I have settled on no oversampling from Audirvana with the QB-9 Twenty.  I may revisit that decision, but the performance is so good it's essentially a moot point.

 

The sound stage has continued to open and deepen with more detail and texture as the hours pass.  Once I have enough volume (about speaking volume in my room), the speakers simply disappear into whatever world the musician(s) and studio engineers created.

 

I am hoping there are continued firmware updates for DSD and the other quibbles others have mentioned already.  That said, I can heartily recommend the upgrade.

[Ryan Berry]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:14 AM, EicoMan said:

After a round of listening tests this weekend, I have settled on no oversampling from Audirvana with the QB-9 Twenty.  I may revisit that decision, but the performance is so good it's essentially a moot point.

 

The sound stage has continued to open and deepen with more detail and texture as the hours pass.  Once I have enough volume (about speaking volume in my room), the speakers simply disappear into whatever world the musician(s) and studio engineers created.

 

I am hoping there are continued firmware updates for DSD and the other quibbles others have mentioned already.  That said, I can heartily recommend the upgrade.

 

Hi EicoMan,

I'm glad you got it working, and apologize for being late to the thread.  The QB-9's fully capable of handling both DSD via DoP as well as "Native" DSD, but the latter format tends to be problematic with IoS from what I've experienced and heard.  The only real loss between DoP and "Native" is the maximum sample rate supported.  We've listened to both and could never hear any appreciable sound quality differences at the same sample rates, which makes sense considering what the data is doing.

I personally believe in not oversampling on the software end and have found that to sound better to me, but of course opinions can vary there.  I always just suggest to do what sounds best to you.  Hopefully, in time, Apple will improve IoS to handle Native DSD better.  Thanks for the recommendation!

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Berry

[PrTv]

I've just replaced my MBP mid-2012 that I used as a transport for a long time, by a dedicated transport, and for the first time, I can feed DSD 256 (natively) to QB9 Twenty. Improvement over the MBP is not minor at all. This should last me while... until the next big upgrade (not in foreseeable future given this economy).

 

 

[AVSGSLIU]

Hi Ryan, do you mind running through the controls and settings for the QB9 twenty regarding sample rates, filters, and DSD native/direct mode?? Or point me to where this info is available.

 

thanks, George 

[Ryan Berry]

23 hours ago, AVSGSLIU said:

Hi Ryan, do you mind running through the controls and settings for the QB9 twenty regarding sample rates, filters, and DSD native/direct mode?? Or point me to where this info is available.

 

thanks, George 

Happy to.  If you want to send me an email (use the contact button on our website), I can do a write up for you.  It's pretty dependent on the OS/software you're using for playback, so if you could include that for me, that will help.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

[ufoerp]

On 1/14/2021 at 5:27 AM, Ryan Berry said:

Happy to.  If you want to send me an email (use the contact button on our website), I can do a write up for you.  It's pretty dependent on the OS/software you're using for playback, so if you could include that for me, that will help.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

Hi Ryan, 

I have used and loved my QB9DSD for 6 years and it is wonderful. Since 2 years ago, I have paired it with Aurender N100C and it is great match. 

As I am preparing for the Twenty version upgrade and see some posts here about that after upgrade to Twenty, QB9 USB port need be with power, i am wondering if my Aurender N100C will have this challenge with QB9 Twenty?

 

Cheers,

[Yoram Diamand]

Hi I have the RCA to my Feliks Audio Euforia headphone amp, but the XLR is still free. I was thinking of this converter: Jensen Transformers PC-2XR XLR/RCA Audio Converter Balanced to Unbalanced. Are there technical reasons why that would not work? Ideal would be to have 2 RCA outputs, one for my head amp and one for my  preamp ->loudspeakers. Also: Can I use 2 outputs RCA and XLR at the same time? Thanks Yoram

[ufoerp]

On 1/11/2021 at 9:02 PM, PrTv said:

I've just replaced my MBP mid-2012 that I used as a transport for a long time, by a dedicated transport, and for the first time, I can feed DSD 256 (natively) to QB9 Twenty. Improvement over the MBP is not minor at all. This should last me while... until the next big upgrade (not in foreseeable future given this economy).

 

 

Hello, just want to check if upgraded QB9 Twenty works well with Aurender player? Does it have the QB9 USB port need power challenge? thanks. 

[PrTv]

57 minutes ago, ufoerp said:

Hello, just want to check if upgraded QB9 Twenty works well with Aurender player? Does it have the QB9 USB port need power challenge? thanks. 

Don't worry, based on my post you have quoted, I upgraded to QB9 Twenty and it worked with my N100H without any problem. Everything is perfect. Sleep function also worked fine (DAC went to sleep once no track played, and woke up once I played the track). N100H is basically similar to N100C so I don't think you'll run into any problem.

 

This may be your best upgrade/purchase ever! Then please don't hesitate!

[PrTv]

1 hour ago, Yoram Diamand said:

Hi I have the RCA to my Feliks Audio Euforia headphone amp, but the XLR is still free. I was thinking of this converter: Jensen Transformers PC-2XR XLR/RCA Audio Converter Balanced to Unbalanced. Are there technical reasons why that would not work? Ideal would be to have 2 RCA outputs, one for my head amp and one for my  preamp ->loudspeakers. Also: Can I use 2 outputs RCA and XLR at the same time? Thanks Yoram

I used RCA+XLR simultaneously at one point, and this config worked fine. I didn't detect any sonic degradation.

 

But since you've brought this up, I also want to check with Ryan.

 

Ryan, by design/technically, would there be any sonic degradation if two outputs are used at the same time? i.e. do the XLR/RCA output share the same signal path, if so, connecting the DAC via 2 outputs at the same time should theoretically degrade the signal coming out of both outputs, as oppose to only one (RCA or XLR) connection?

[ufoerp]

11 hours ago, PrTv said:

Don't worry, based on my post you have quoted, I upgraded to QB9 Twenty and it worked with my N100H without any problem. Everything is perfect. Sleep function also worked fine (DAC went to sleep once no track played, and woke up once I played the track). N100H is basically similar to N100C so I don't think you'll run into any problem.

 

This may be your best upgrade/purchase ever! Then please don't hesitate!

Super thanks!!

 

I have seen your feedback about twenty version versus DSD version. So there is no large difference for this upgrade if I am owner of DSD version? 
 

cheers.

[PrTv]

14 hours ago, ufoerp said:

Super thanks!!

 

I have seen your feedback about twenty version versus DSD version. So there is no large difference for this upgrade if I am owner of DSD version? 
 

cheers.

Well, I wouldn't say that the change is minor. I can say with confidence that the new board sounds better, but can't quite quantify the extent, as it took quite a long time to burn in, and by the time the "Twenty" is fully broken in (past 350-ish hours mark), I forgot how the DSD version sounded.

 

However, this review should give you a very good indication of the improvement, as side-by-side comparison was thoroughly made here:

 

[ufoerp]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:29 AM, PrTv said:

Well, I wouldn't say that the change is minor. I can say with confidence that the new board sounds better, but can't quite quantify the extent, as it took quite a long time to burn in, and by the time the "Twenty" is fully broken in (past 350-ish hours mark), I forgot how the DSD version sounded.

 

However, this review should give you a very good indication of the improvement, as side-by-side comparison was thoroughly made here:

 

Thanks for important feedback!

Now I am wondering if I will do the 20' upgrade on my QB9DSD or just make a big jump to QX5. I just heard that QX5 twenty version with USB2 board with some new features. 

[Ryan Berry]

Sorry I've been away so long and missed these!  To answer a few questions:

 

On 7/7/2021 at 6:22 AM, ufoerp said:

As I am preparing for the Twenty version upgrade and see some posts here about that after upgrade to Twenty, QB9 USB port need be with power, i am wondering if my Aurender N100C will have this challenge with QB9 Twenty?

 

The QB-9 did switch back to externally-powered, which was how it operated pre-DSD.  We added the internal power because in some REALLY bad cases, we found that adding an external power supply to the USB power line instead of relying upon the host system's power could make a difference in how it sounded.  We tested this with about 20 computers here at Ayre and only found one HP system that we could tell any difference.  Meanwhile, we heard more than a couple of complaints about being able to hear the PCB-mounted transformer if you pressed your ear up to the QB-9 DSD and owners weren't particularly happy about it, so it was a pretty easy decision to go back.  The QB-9 should draw about 300 mA via USB, which is below the USB standard.  As long as the device is able to provide to USB specifications, you should be fine.

 

On 7/7/2021 at 7:58 AM, PrTv said:

Ryan, by design/technically, would there be any sonic degradation if two outputs are used at the same time? i.e. do the XLR/RCA output share the same signal path, if so, connecting the DAC via 2 outputs at the same time should theoretically degrade the signal coming out of both outputs, as oppose to only one (RCA or XLR) connection?

 

The short answer is it depends.  For the longer answer: we try from a purist standpoint to have everything exactly balanced, so connecting something to the RCA's will draw upon the positive signal more than the inverse signal.  How much really depends on the input impedance of the devices connected to the QB-9.  For our gear, we use an extremely high impedance and so the effect would be almost non-existent, other designs can vary of course.  You also are bringing in another ground from another device into the mix that may not have been there otherwise, so that COULD have an effect as well, but from practice, we have not really heard any effect here, so it's all mostly theoretical and really contingent upon what's involved with the QB-9.

 

On 7/7/2021 at 7:54 PM, ufoerp said:

I have seen your feedback about twenty version versus DSD version. So there is no large difference for this upgrade if I am owner of DSD version? 

 

Personally speaking, I feel that the Twenty upgrade was the most significant upgrade in the history of the QB-9.  The DSD upgrade was really begun just to add DSD to the unit, but Charley hated DSD at the time and wanted to do more than just slap a DSD sticker on the front and update some firmware.  Around that time, a lot of companies were going to the ESS DAC line and we decided to use it and the DX-5 as the guinea pigs for testing the new DAC.  There's quite a story there on what we went through, but ended up with a pretty decent DAC and clock upgrade in the end for the DSD version with the added USB power supply, but the analog and power supply circuits were left alone from the original.  The Twenty was different as it was designed from the beginning as an overhaul to the analog, digital, and power supply portions of the DAC and required us to toss the entire old design out and begin new with what we had figured out in design theory since we first released the QB-9 11 years ago in 2009.  Of course, in the end, it all matters in how much different it sounds to you, but I can say I haven't heard of anyone regretting the upgrade to date.

[beetlemania]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:47 AM, ufoerp said:

Thanks for important feedback!

Now I am wondering if I will do the 20' upgrade on my QB9DSD or just make a big jump to QX5. I just heard that QX5 twenty version with USB2 board with some new features. 

To my ears, the DSD version was a nice upgrade compared to the original QB-9. But the Twenty version is an even bigger upgrade compared to the DSD version. Truly musical. As I approach retirement, pretty sure this is my last DAC. 
 

I’ve not directly compared the QB-9 Twenty to the QX-5. Probably the QX-5 is sonically superior but, unless you have deep pockets, cost might be an important factor.

[FelipeRolim]

I'm still dreaming about the QB-9 Twenty...

[ufoerp]

Has anyone lately upgraded to the Twenty version of QB9?

[ufoerp]

seems very quiet for this upgrade discussion now?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, ufoerp said:

seems very quiet for this upgrade discussion now?

Everyone is listening to music 🤣