Popular Post jma2 Posted August 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hi all, I recently discovered an upcoming upgrade for my Ayre QB-9 (which took already the DSD upgrade in 2013). I was slowly starting to think about upgrading my QB-9 to another DAC, but now decided to pre-order the upgrade which supposedly comes in September (trust-based decision I have to admit). The upgrade supposedly covers the following features: Diamond output circuit improves musicality and bass response. A new JFET differential stage lowers the noise floor. AyreLock power supply regulation for better rendering of fine musical detail. New AC noise filtering for improved resolution. Custom Ayre Asynchronous USB technology further reducing electrical noise in the system. New ESS DAC chip for improved signal to noise ratio and spacial detail. Six layer board design for optimal circuit isolation. Proprietary reclocking to eliminate USB domain jitter. PCM play back up to 384 kHz Native DSD capability up to DSD256 (4x) HDCD decoding Doesn't look like a "Minor Quality Arte-fact"-upgrade to me ;-) I couldn't find the announcement on the Ayre website, but there was an announcement by the importer (here in The Netherlands). I still enjoy the QB-9 on a daily basis I have to say, and the previous upgrade was definitely worth the money. I appreciate very much the way Ayre keeps on supporting this QB-9 which at the time landed with lots of praise and attention. Kind regards, Jan beetlemania and nbpf 2 Link to comment
Axiom05 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Since buying a QX-5 Twenty my QB-9DSD doesn't get much use. Probably not worth the cost to upgrade it for me (still sounds good as it is), however if it still was my primary DAC this would certainly be an easy decision. The specs for the upgrade look excellent. beetlemania 1 Main System: [Synology DS216, Rpi-4b LMS (pCP)], Holo Audio Red, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments Living Room: Sonore ultraRendu, Ayre QB-9DSD, Simaudio MOON 340iX, B&W 802 Diamond Link to comment
jma2 Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Yes, I looked with interest at the QX-5 Twenty... lots of (I'm sure, justified) enthusiasm by those who have it. I was held back by the price and scared of by the law of diminishing returns. I was curious lately for the Denafrips DACs but since there are no dealers here, a listening session or comparison with the QB-9 did not look very easy to establish. A huge advantage of other DACs in general is that you can hook up multiple sources while the QB-9 is single USB only. I added a Shiit Bitfrost for the TV, which works fine, but is an extra box in the rack. At least with the upcoming QB-9 upgrade on pre-order I can stop "worrying" 😀 Jan Link to comment
barrows Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 That sounds like it is a huge upgrade! I suspect you will be very happy. Just the change to the JFET first stage is huge, as this probably features Ayre's stock of NOS Toshiba JFETS which are unobtainable now. I had my Ayre K5 preamp upgraded with the JFETs and the difference was not subtle at all, it went from being a very good preamp, to within spitting distance of the best. beetlemania 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
barrows Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, jma2 said: A huge advantage of other DACs in general is that you can hook up multiple sources while the QB-9 is single USB only I believe this is actually an advantage for sonics: all those other inputs add cost, complexity, and require a switching mechanism on digital signal lines. It is impossible to have a "perfect" switch for digital signals, so having only a single digital input can result in increased performance. I build all of my DIY DACs dedicated for a single input for specifically this reason. matthias 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
AB835 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 MY QB-9 DSD is in transit to Ayre for the 20 Upgrade, scheduled for Sept 3. Will report when it returns. beetlemania 1 A flaw in reasoning is a mistake in how conclusions are derived from assumptions, not a mistake in assumptions. AB835 Link to comment
Munchoba Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 On 8/23/2019 at 1:22 PM, AB835 said: MY QB-9 DSD is in transit to Ayre for the 20 Upgrade, scheduled for Sept 3. Will report when it returns. How much did they quote you? You two men go that way... QNAP TS-131P->2019 Mac Mini-> -> dCS BArtok -> balanced XLR -> Nagra MPA ->Shunyata Research cables and Hydra 6 -> Acapella La Campanella 2 horn speakers and REL R-328 SubBase. HiFi Rack Reference audio stand. Link to comment
bsinc Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Has anyone received their QB-9 upgraded unit yet? Link to comment
AB835 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 I know it arrived but has not returned as of yet. A flaw in reasoning is a mistake in how conclusions are derived from assumptions, not a mistake in assumptions. AB835 Link to comment
bsinc Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Thanks for the posting. I know Gary said they would take "about a week" when I scheduled, but he also said they didn't actually have the boards yet. Appreciate the information. Link to comment
jma2 Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 I sincerely hope you do not have to send your DAC before they have the board... otherwise you risk missing your DAC for a long time. Here in The Netherlands at least my new board is pre-ordered and when it arrives I will get notified to hand in my DAC with the local dealer. Then it should be a matter of days, as it happened with the previous upgrade. I have no clue when the board will arrive but at least I can still enjoy using the QB9 as it is now. Link to comment
Tone Deaf Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Update received last week from Gary: "We do have QB-9 Twenty main Audio boards in now (they arrived late Tuesday) and are moving right along with the upgrades." Main System: Mac mini (Audirvana+, MMK, JS-2) -> ISO Regen (LPS-1) -> Icron 2201 (Rex LPS-1.2) -> ISO Regen (LPS-1.2) -> Ayre QB-9 Twenty -> Headamp GS-X Mk2 -> Classe CT-M600 -> KEF Reference 201/2 Link to comment
bsinc Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 They've done mine and it was right on schedule. Waiting on UPS. Love to hear from someone who has gotten the update Link to comment
Popular Post bsinc Posted October 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2019 Well it is here! Nice "Twenty" badge added and it appears that A+ passes HDCD according to the front display. Too early to say anything about SQ other than it plays music and doesn't do anything bad. Let the break-in begin.😁 jma2, beetlemania, barrows and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment
Ryan Berry Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I'm glad it got back safe to you. One of the drawbacks of the level of upgrade is that we had to replace just about everything inside the unit, so you will be starting over on the break-in process. That said, I think you'll be pleased with it. I've ended up liking this upgrade quite a bit more than I did the DSD upgrade back in 2013. Cheers, Ryan Berry President Ayre Acoustics, Inc. Link to comment
Popular Post bsinc Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 I am enthusiastically liking what I hear! When I bought the unit many years ago I liked it from the first note , despite not being run in yet. There are certain qualities that are immediately evident that were not possessed prior to the "twenty " upgrade. I dont see the SQ taking a turn for the worse, nor can I comprehensively say just how good it really is. My first take is that it is clearly better than my upgraded DSD unit. I am happy! That counts for alot😁 FelipeRolim and Ryan Berry 2 Link to comment
Norman Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I got my upgrade the other day. The first thing I noticed is that it didn’t work. The computer didn’t recognize the DAC. It worked fine the day I shipped it to Ayre for the upgrade, but didn’t work when I got it back. Why? What I (think) I discovered is that the Twenty upgrade seems to require USB power, which was not the case with the DSD upgrade. In order to make the Twenty upgrade work I had to switch my SOtM tX-USBexp card from USB power OFF to USB power ON (the red switch on the PCI card). If true, at least in theory, this is a step backward, as the DSD version did not require USB power. Has anyone else experienced the same thing? I’d like not to use USB power from the computer (or external linear power supply) if that is still possible. Link to comment
bsinc Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Ryan would be the one to answer your question definitively. I havent used any LH cables in awhile, however , when I did , I did not need the power leg connection. I am using mine on a Mac mini w/ an Audience usb. Did you try a different cable? The upgrade brochure says Ayre is using a proprietary code now, so perhaps it is a driver /initialization issue? I agree it would be strange if the QB-9 now requires power from the source. I will be curious to know how your dilemma is resolved. Link to comment
bsinc Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 What happens if you switch the USB power to off once the Ayre is recognized by your system? Link to comment
Tone Deaf Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Picked mine up yesterday. Right out of the box it's clearly a significant upgrade. Was pleasantly surprised that Ayre would offer such an upgrade to the discontinued QB-9. A big shout-out to Ayre for offering it. beetlemania 1 Main System: Mac mini (Audirvana+, MMK, JS-2) -> ISO Regen (LPS-1) -> Icron 2201 (Rex LPS-1.2) -> ISO Regen (LPS-1.2) -> Ayre QB-9 Twenty -> Headamp GS-X Mk2 -> Classe CT-M600 -> KEF Reference 201/2 Link to comment
Norman Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Thank you for your thoughts on this. I tried your suggestions, and here are the results: Changing USB cables makes no difference. Switching the USB power off once the computer recognizes the DAC immediately switches the DAC from Play mode (display shows three horizontal blue bars) to Standby mode (display shows single green LED). Toggling USB power on and off while the Windows 10 Sound control panel is open both toggles the DAC between play and standby mode and toggles the computer between recognizing the DAC and not recognizing it. In other words, both the behavior of the DAC and the behavior of the computer indicate that the DAC needs USB power for the computer to recognize it (and to play music). Finally, when connecting the Ayre to any of the “ordinary” USB ports on the computer (not the fancy SOtM card, which allows USB power to be switched on and off), the computer recognizes the unit and everything works fine. That’s because the ordinary USB ports provide 5V to the DAC by default. The DAC gets the power it needs. So, all of my experiments (the ones you suggest and others) point in the same direction. It seems that the QB-9 Twenty upgrade now requires power from the USB port, whereas the DSD upgrade did not. I’d love to get confirmation of this and, if it’s true, would like to know why the folks at Ayre made the decision to again require power from the USB port. desbiss 1 Link to comment
bsinc Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Well you tried.... I suggested a cable swap in case one was defective. Cant suggest much more than what you've tried. As I said I'm using a mac. I no longer have the split leg cables to experiment with. Link to comment
bsinc Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Oh, did you also try changing the switch settings on the QB-9? "POWER A" and POWER B" then there's the input speed switch? Nothing ventured nothing gained... Link to comment
Popular Post Ryan Berry Posted October 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Norman said: Thank you for your thoughts on this. I tried your suggestions, and here are the results: Changing USB cables makes no difference. Switching the USB power off once the computer recognizes the DAC immediately switches the DAC from Play mode (display shows three horizontal blue bars) to Standby mode (display shows single green LED). Toggling USB power on and off while the Windows 10 Sound control panel is open both toggles the DAC between play and standby mode and toggles the computer between recognizing the DAC and not recognizing it. In other words, both the behavior of the DAC and the behavior of the computer indicate that the DAC needs USB power for the computer to recognize it (and to play music). Finally, when connecting the Ayre to any of the “ordinary” USB ports on the computer (not the fancy SOtM card, which allows USB power to be switched on and off), the computer recognizes the unit and everything works fine. That’s because the ordinary USB ports provide 5V to the DAC by default. The DAC gets the power it needs. So, all of my experiments (the ones you suggest and others) point in the same direction. It seems that the QB-9 Twenty upgrade now requires power from the USB port, whereas the DSD upgrade did not. I’d love to get confirmation of this and, if it’s true, would like to know why the folks at Ayre made the decision to again require power from the USB port. Hi Norman, I think I can help here. As you suspect, the QB-9 Twenty did eliminate the internal power supply that we introduced with the DSD upgrade. Simply put, putting an additional linear power supply to run the USB section for the DSD upgrade ended up being a terrible decision for us that caused a lot of headaches. We spent a lot of time having hundreds of people compare A to B between the power supply being on and off in the QB-9, and ultimately, found that it didn't seem to make any difference in almost every system for almost every person who compared one to the other. What was reported almost daily for the first three years of the DSD upgrade was how "loud" the unit was with the additional transformer. People frankly hated such a small box having the ability to emit ANY noise, even if it was something you had to be within 6-8 inches of the unit to hear. It's a complaint that we continue to receive for the QB-9 DSD, particularly in Europe. Since we can't make the transformer completely silent and having two transformers is just another component creating noise without providing notable benefit to the sound, we decided to eliminate it for the Twenty model. In actuality, we kept the option on the PCB just in case we needed to make it an option for people, but the upgrade's pretty new still, so this is the first bit of feedback on the change. Hopefully that helps answer why we removed it. Putting internal power in is really easy to do, but functionally, the cons seem to outweigh the pros in the case of the QB-9. Cheers, Ryan Berry FelipeRolim and barrows 2 President Ayre Acoustics, Inc. Link to comment
Popular Post Ryan Berry Posted October 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Tone Deaf said: Picked mine up yesterday. Right out of the box it's clearly a significant upgrade. Was pleasantly surprised that Ayre would offer such an upgrade to the discontinued QB-9. A big shout-out to Ayre for offering it. Thanks Tone Deaf, I won't pretend that it's not tempting at times to just roll an upgrade of this magnitude into a new product. It makes for an easy new product to release, but it's not the way Ayre likes to operate. We know the investment people put into their systems and to force people to buy a new chassis just to get the latest technology just doesn't ring well for us. So we try and keep everyone current as much as we can. There's limits of course, and this will probably be the last upgrade for the QB-9 Twenty, but the QB-9 was always a special product for us and we wanted to honor it one more time and thank everyone that is a fan of our products. Glad you're enjoying it! Cheers, Ryan Berry FelipeRolim, barrows and desbiss 2 1 President Ayre Acoustics, Inc. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now