HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[Newbie2019]

Just like to add my thanks to the contributors on this thread. 

 

Have got ASDM7EC working with poly-sinc xtr mp (yes, the non-2s version) on my I7-9700K at 44.1k to DSD 256. No stuttering so far but CPU temps a bit high, 74 degC.

 

I'm also a bit of a Chord fan (mojo and Qutest). HQP 3.25 user, still on trial with 4.1.0.1 ...

[k6davis]

I'd always assumed that a GPU was mandatory to run the demanding xtr filters - especially combined with the new EC modulators. This recent post from @Ales Prochazka showed me that my assumption was incorrect. 

I've run some additional tests and I'm even more impressed with the i7-9700K than I was before. With no overclocking, no special cooling, no GPU, and even with Roon running simultaneously, it's capable of anything I can throw at it - without any strain at all.

 

My use case is 2 channels, with no convolution.

 

1. Roon + PCM 24-352 => ASDM7EC x DSD256 + poly-sinc-xtr mp/lp  👍
2. Roon + PCM 24-192 => ASDM7EC x DSD256 x 48 + poly-sinc-xtr mp/lp  👍
3. Roon + DSD128 => ASDMEC x DSD256 + poly-sinc-xtr mp/lp  👍

 

This means that with just the i7-9700K, within my use case, I can do everything that's currently possible with HQP. Interestingly, #2 is the heaviest load, most likely due to the need to upsample to x 48. 

I have an inexpensive GPU, but I'm going to sell it. As @Miska has stated, since it is slower than my CPU, my inexpensive GPU was actually holding my system back. Most importantly, I don't need a GPU to get these results.

Miska has said that poly-sinc-ext2 is his favorite filter and it sounds great. So far, I'm really liking poly-sinc-xtr (mp). I'm hearing it for the first time. Either way, the sound is outstanding. EC is a game changer. I'm looking forward to doing more critical listening tomorrow after going back to having Roon on its own server.

 

HQPlayer Desktop 4.1.0.1

Windows Server 2019 + Audiophile Optimizer

Core i7-9700K

ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX Motherboard

Stock BIOS Settings
Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition

Kingston m.2 120GB SSD
8GB of RAM

 

 

[Ales Prochazka]

12 hours ago, Ales Prochazka said:

HQPlayer Desktop 4.1.0.1

• Win 10 Pro x64 1903 (18362.295)
• Power scheme - balance
• MB ASUS PRIME Z390-A (BIOS 1105)
• CPU i9-9900K
• BIOS:
  • All set to AUTO
  • HT set to ON
  • ASUS MultiCore Enhancement ---> DISABLE - Enforce All Limits
  • Internal CPU Powe Management ---> PL1 set to 120W and PL2 set to 160W
• 32GB RAM
• without CUDA

1. poly-sinc-xtr-mp[lp] + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 352,8kHz ---> SDM256 OK

 

I forgot to mention that I was playing Crysis 2 game. On the same machine and the same time 😬

[StreamFidelity]

30 minutes ago, k6davis said:

I'd always assumed that a GPU was mandatory to run the demanding xtr filters - especially combined with the new EC modulators. This recent post from @Ales Prochazka showed me that my assumption was incorrect. 

 

I agree. For EC modulators, no GPU is required.

 

30 minutes ago, k6davis said:

I've run some additional tests and I'm even more impressed with the i7-9700K than I was before. With no overclocking, no special cooling, no GPU, and even with Roon running simultaneously, it's capable of anything I can throw at it - without any strain at all.

 

I don't agree with it. Even if you have not set overcloking in BIOS, you are running overclocking in software: instead of 3.6 GHz it is 4.6 GHz. 😉

[k6davis]

15 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

I agree. For EC modulators, no GPU is required.

 

I don't agree with it. Even if you have not set overcloking in BIOS, you are running overclocking in software: instead of 3.6 GHz it is 4.6 GHz. 😉

 

You are right. I have not manually overclocked the CPU. It runs however fast it needs to run - safely and automatically.

[k6davis]

6 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Same machine running HQP OS (USB bootable image) works fine with DXD to SDM256, ext2, ASDM7EC?

 

I know you were asking @Ales Prochazka, but I'm answering anyway because I am interested in the topic. 

 

I have had great success with full EC DSD256 on HQP Desktop on both Windows & Linux, and with HQP Embedded on LInux Server. But on the same i7-9700K server, HQP OS stutters with even lighter EC DSD256 settings.

 

On the few computers I've tried lately, HQP OS has not performed as well as the other configurations, although it's very easy to use and it sounds great when used within its limitations. I'm puzzled as to what I could be doing wrong because the OS is already configured. 

 

Has anybody gotten PCM 24-192 => ASDM7EC x DSD256 x 48 working on HQP OS? Looking forward to your results @Ales Prochazka.

[asdf1000]

Just now, k6davis said:

But on the same i7-9700K server, HQP OS stutters with even lighter EC DSD256 settings.

 

Interesting. It seems it was worth asking the question then.

 

[k6davis]

12 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Interesting. It seems it was worth asking the question then.

 

Oh definitely. I would like to run HQP OS, but I haven't been able to get it to perform as well as the other versions when it comes to high rez PCM => ASDM7EC x DSD256 x 48. Even with poly-sinc-ext2 it stutters badly. With the Windows Desktop version, I can run all of that with poly-sinc-xtr (!!!) on the same computer.

 

I've asked @Miska about it and he said that there's no reason why that should be the case. So I would like to know if he or anyone else has had better luck than I have. 

[k6davis]

2 hours ago, Newbie2019 said:

Just like to add my thanks to the contributors on this thread. 

 

Have got ASDM7EC working with poly-sinc xtr mp (yes, the non-2s version) on my I7-9700K at 44.1k to DSD 256. No stuttering so far but CPU temps a bit high, 74 degC.

 

I'm also a bit of a Chord fan (mojo and Qutest). HQP 3.25 user, still on trial with 4.1.0.1 ...

 

Welcome to the thread @Newbie2019 and congrats on getting it working!

 

What kind of cooling are you using for the CPU?

[StreamFidelity]

53 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Has anybody gotten PCM 24-192 => ASDM7EC x DSD256 x 48 working on HQP OS? Looking forward to your results

 

I have booted HQPlayer OS directly from USB stick and do not even get 16Bit 44.1kHz with ASDM7EC stutter free to run.

I think Windows 10 Pro is better than many believe. In any case, it seems to have a better grip on the utilization of the cores.

[k6davis]

4 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

I have booted HQPlayer OS directly from USB stick and do not even get 16Bit 44.1kHz with ASDM7EC stutter free to run.

I think Windows 10 Pro is better than many believe. In any case, it seems to have a better grip on the utilization of the cores.

 

Right! Thank you @StreamFidelity.

 

That makes at least 3 users, @StreamFidelity, @Outlaw, and I that have reported that EC is not working well with HQP OS. When you have time, could you please take a look at that @Miska?

[emc_1984]

I agree HQP with EC works better on Windows OS than Linux.

[k6davis]

8 minutes ago, emc_1984 said:

I agree HQP with EC works better on Windows OS than Linux.

 

Well, that's not what I'm saying. HQP EC works great for me on Linux Desktop and Linux Server. I only have problems trying to use Jussi's bootable Linux image (HQP OS) with EC.

 

Since Jussi didn't expect that to be the case, hopefully, there might be a solution that is simple for him to implement. 

[lmitche]

13 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Linux Desktop and Linux Server.

Which Linux distro do you use?

[k6davis]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Which Linux distro do you use?

 

Ubuntu 18.04 for Desktop. 

Ubuntu Server 18.04 for Server, as recommended by Jussi. 

 

Everything works well with both versions.

[Newbie2019]

3 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

Welcome to the thread @Newbie2019 and congrats on getting it working!

 

What kind of cooling are you using for the CPU?

 

A Cryorig M9 single fan. And I've set CPU core ratio to "sync all cores" and power saving & performance mode to "performance mode" in BIOS.

 

In HQP the Multicore DSP box is greyed out, Cuda offload is off. And 48k DSD doesn't work for some reason.

 

Thanks once again for all the very useful tips in this thread.

[k6davis]

6 minutes ago, Newbie2019 said:

A Cryorig M9 single fan. And I've set CPU core ratio to "sync all cores" and power saving & performance mode to "performance mode" in BIOS.

 

In HQP the Multicore DSP box is greyed out, Cuda offload is off. And 48k DSD doesn't work for some reason.

 

Thanks once again for all the very useful tips in this thread.

 

You're welcome, from me and all the rest. It's a great resource.

 

For the 48k DSD, there are two checkboxes. "Adaptive Output Rate" and "48k DSD". I have them both set to checked (not grayed out).

 

That looks like a capable fan. I'm getting about 45C with the same CPU and I'm running 48K DSD which is more demanding. You likely know more about overclocking than I do, but have you tried using the default settings (or at least the defaults for the CPU) as a baseline to see what happens? There's no need to "push" the 9700K to get good EC performance.

[rando]

But as @JTS provided ample proof of.  Tuning BIOS settings related to overclocking border on necessity.  That it means your computer will run cooler and more efficiently.  That understanding the principles inform decisions on how to refine these settings for different tasks/programs.

[Ales Prochazka]

10 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Same machine running HQP OS (USB bootable image) works fine with DXD to SDM256, ext2, ASDM7EC?

 

No.

[k6davis]

1 hour ago, rando said:

But as @JTS provided ample proof of.  Tuning BIOS settings related to overclocking border on necessity.  That it means your computer will run cooler and more efficiently.  That understanding the principles inform decisions on how to refine these settings for different tasks/programs.

 

That's just not true.

 

You may prefer to adjust the BIOS settings. You may get better results from adjusting the BIOS settings. It may be a good idea to adjust the BIOS settings - assuming you know what you're doing. But, with the right hardware, it certainly not a necessity to adjust the BIOS settings. And if a user doesn't know what he or she is doing, it could cause more harm than good.

 

As I have already shown, on this very page, I am able to run Roon + PCM Hi-Rez => HQP EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sinc-xtr, with no GPU, without adjusting any BIOS settings and my system temperatures remained in the 40's C. 

[rando]

On AS the term necessity equates to if this feasibly will have an effect on the order of .001% improvement it must be tried, weighed, and measured before discussing it in great detail.  

 

Lighten up.

[ted_b]

So, Rando, you are saying your post was nothing but pedantic?  If so, stop filling up my thread unless you have a meaningful tip or technique for EC, or need one.  Thanks.

[k6davis]

4 hours ago, rando said:

But as @JTS provided ample proof of.  Tuning BIOS settings related to overclocking border on necessity.  That it means your computer will run cooler and more efficiently.  That understanding the principles inform decisions on how to refine these settings for different tasks/programs.

 

1 hour ago, rando said:

On AS the term necessity equates to if this feasibly will have an effect on the order of .001% improvement it must be tried, weighed, and measured before discussing it in great detail.  

 

Lighten up.

 

You just went from It "borders on necessity" to "order of .001% improvement" in 1 post. 🤣🤣🤣

 

[rando]

You have a very subtle mind I'm not making much of an impression upon. 😶

[asdf1000]

On 8/19/2019 at 7:38 PM, k6davis said:

Interestingly, #2 is the heaviest load, most likely due to the need to upsample to x 48. 

 

Interesting. #2 is PCM192k which is already 48k base rate... So CPU loading should be similar with PCM176 to DSD256x44.1 (for example).

 

And since DXD is 2xPCM176, DXD to DSD256 should have heavier load, I would have thought?

 

Doesn't matter that Roon isn't on there anymore but what's the CPU loading difference between your #1 and #2 if you re-test? Small difference?