HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[k6davis]

4 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

I'm quite happy too, with 2s filters. Especially ext2 is my fav.

 

But there is a special ops group that want to do xtr non-2s... we've seen that chase with DSD512 before 😁

 

No doubt. ext2 is also Jussi's favorite.

 

My $180 GPU can do *all of the other filters*. Including the non-2s filters. Is xtr that magical? Or is it just a completest kind of thing?

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Is xtr that magical? Or is it just a completest kind of thing?

 

Hard for me to even answer because I've never heard xtr non-2s at DSD512....  only the special group that have heard it can talk from experience.

 

I can only talk about xtr-2s at DSD512 and xtr non-2 at DSD256 with ASDM7 (still prefer ext2) but neither is the 'real thing' 😁

[ted_b]

We might all be surprised at the diminishing returns of EC at 512.  Who knows (although before EC modulators 512 was a nice sq step up from 256).  I really wish some of you would try the trial of HQP Pro and create for yourselves one minute samplers of EC at DSD512 of your favorite music, to compare to the realtime EC modulators at 256.  Maybe it's not the Holy Grail...or if it is, we can at least start a savings fund for when 8Ghz gets here. 

 

Edit: non-2s samples too!!

[asdf1000]

9 minutes ago, k6davis said:

ext2 is also Jussi's favorite.

 

I think when Jussi mentioned this, a lot of people flocked to it (me too) to give it a listen. And agreed with him.

 

I don't recall any/many talking abt ext2 until he mentioned it.

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, ted_b said:

I really wish some of you would try the trial of HQP Pro and create for yourselves one minute samplers of EC at DSD512 of your favorite music, to compare to the realtime EC modulators at 256. 

 

Good idea. But the result might be devastating for the wallet

[k6davis]

10 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Hard for me to even answer because I've never heard xtr non-2s at DSD512....  only the special group that have heard it can talk from experience.

 

I can only talk about xtr-2s at DSD512 and xtr non-2 at DSD256 but neither is the 'real thing' 😁

 

I've heard it because I had a i7-9700K + RTX2080 machine briefly while I was trying to figure out EC. 

 

I didn't listen to the xtr critically because I was only concerned about getting EC to work. Anyway, I'm more than happy (thrilled?) with what I have and what I paid for it. With the filters I use, the RTX 2080 utilization was always at around 4%. And even more importantly, ext2 worked with no GPU at all!

 

That's how I knew it wasn't for me. ($$$)

[k6davis]

13 minutes ago, ted_b said:

We might all be surprised at the diminishing returns of EC at 512.  Who knows (although before EC modulators 512 was a nice sq step up from 256).  I really wish some of you would try the trial of HQP Pro and create for yourselves one minute samplers of EC at DSD512 of your favorite music, to compare to the realtime EC modulators at 256.  Maybe it's not the Holy Grail...or if it is, we can at least start a savings fund for when 8Ghz gets here. 

 

Edit: non-2s samples too!!

 

No way, Ted!! I'm happy now! You're gonna send me down another rabbit hole... 

 

EC DSD256 turned out to be easy to implement and for a modest cost. When the same can be said for EC DSD512, I'll upgrade then.

 

In the meantime, I don't wanna hear it. What good could that do? 😂😂😂

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, k6davis said:

In the meantime, I don't wanna hear it. What good could that do? 😂😂😂

 

Only catastrophic damage to the bank account

[ted_b]

2 minutes ago, k6davis said:

In the meantime, I don't wanna hear it. What good could that do? 😂😂😂

"Because it's there"....George Leigh Mallory

[k6davis]

Just now, asdf1000 said:

Only catastrophic damage to the bank account

 

Not only that, even if I bought the $$$$ software, then I'd have to buy storage for the massive files. x2 for backup. I've already got 16TB x 2 for "regular" files. Then there's the deciding which albums make the EC DSD512 cut.

 

Needless to say, about 3 months after I get all of that sorted, Intel/AMD will announce the Ultra CPU that will do EC DSD512 in real time.

 

Nope. Nope. And Nope. 

 

😂😂😂

 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Not only that, even if I bought the $$$$ software, then I'd have to buy storage for the massive files.

 

No i meant if you were happy with 1 minute samplers.... you might be tempted to go the 'real time' route.... minimum 8GHz running speed.... $$$$$$$$$$$$

 

2 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Needless to say, about 3 months after I get all of that sorted, Intel/AMD will announce the Ultra CPU that will do EC DSD512 in real time.

 

Ha, yes, Murphy's Law

[k6davis]

3 minutes ago, ted_b said:

"Because it's there"....George Leigh Mallory

 

My definition of "it's there" is different from yours. LOL

 

If I could spend that amount and then have EC DSD512 upsampling in real-time... that would be tempting.

[ted_b]

No, I am in no way even non-seriously suggesting any one of us buy an HQplayer Pro license (that's for folks like my colleagues at NativeDSD, where you can buy EC7 DSD512 produced music).  I am simply tempted (but with no system right now) to hear what EC would do to my music at DSD512, and a Pro trial license gets you there....for one minute samples.  Yes, it could create angst...but it could also confirm that EC at DSD256 is 99% of the sq....one percent isn't hard to look the other way.  But yes...10% is very hard. 

[k6davis]

1 minute ago, ted_b said:

No, I am in no way even non-seriously suggesting any one of us buy an HQplayer Pro license (that's for folks like my colleagues at NativeDSD, where you can buy EC7 DSD512 produced music).  I am simply tempted (but with no system right now) to hear what EC would do to my music at DSD512, and a Pro trial license gets you there....for one minute samples.  Yes, it could create angst...but it could also confirm that EC at DSD256 is 99% of the sq....one percent isn't hard to look the other way.  But yes...10% is very hard. 

 

I get what you're saying, but you haven't heard EC DSD256 yet. 

 

I can't tell you how you'll respond to it, but as for me, EC DSD256 is already so much better than anything else I've heard that I'm too busy enjoying it to contemplate how much better EC DSD512 might be.

 

If EC DSD512 was possible now, even if it was a bit spendy, I'd get it for the sake of having "the best". When it becomes possible, I'll do it, but the sound of my system right now is a "cup runneth over" type of situation. 

[ted_b]

Great point.  You are right!  It's about enjoying the music....right now.

 

BTW, I'm jealous. 

[k6davis]

28 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Great point.  You are right!  It's about enjoying the music....right now.

 

BTW, I'm jealous. 

 

I hope you're able to put things back together as soon as possible.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, k6davis said:

Turns out, the answer is yes. With ease.

 

Silly question but are you listening when you tested DXD to DSD256?

 

I ask because even when DSD256 EC fails for me, the CPU usage looks fine... but the audio stutters bad.

 

So just seeing low CPU usage isn't enough.

[k6davis]

10 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Silly question but are you listening when you tested DXD to DSD256?

 

I ask because even when DSD256 EC fails for me, the CPU usage looks fine... but the audio stutters bad.

 

So just seeing low CPU usage isn't enough.

 

Correct. I was listening the whole time. And I always let the system play for at least a little while before I post a success story to make sure that things remain stable. 

 

2 hours ago, k6davis said:

Turns out, the answer is yes. With ease.

 

... The music sounds great.

 

[rando]

Intel Xe video cards may produce a CUDA competitor next year.  Who knows what sort of Intel hardware specific accelerators will actually exist or be beneficial to audio.

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, k6davis said:

Notice the speed is at 4.63 GHz. That's just about the lowest it goes while I'm playing EC.

 

What's the max speed while playing EC DSD256 ext2 - close to it's 4.9 GHz max?

 

And what CPU fan setting do you have in your BIOS?

 

[tedwoods]

DSD5EC & ext2 filter: None of the calories, all of the taste!😁

[Le Concombre Masqué]

6 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

If the i7-9700K can do it, I wouldn't go for a base speed that is lower (lower than 3.6 GHz).. unless someone already has something and can confirm what works of course.

 

Going with what Jussi has said raw core speed (base speed) is needed for EC modulators.

 

AMD 3800X at least has higher base speed than i7-9700K.

 

Same number of physical cores but with higher base speed should mean success but who knows for sure

why base speed should matter more than max speed ? I'm obviously not familiar with overclocking and messing with BIOS, as I run WS on a Mac, but Park Control keeps my CPU running at max speed

[asdf1000]

42 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

why base speed should matter more than max speed ?

 

Hi. It doesn't matter more.

 

Jussi has an i7-8086. Base speed is 4GHz which means it is always running over 4GHz... not only with Turbo Boost...

 

But it looks like @k6davis 's i7-9700K is good too. It has good Turbo Boost mode that keeps it running above 4GHz. Just have to make sure it's properly cooled.

 

[k6davis]

4 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

What's the max speed while playing EC DSD256 ext2 - close to it's 4.9 GHz max?

 

And what CPU fan setting do you have in your BIOS?

 

I didn't set any fan settings, or CPU settings in the BIOS. I looked at them, but I left them at their defaults. Of course, you'd want Turbo Boost to be enabled, but I would be surprised to find a motherboard where it was not enabled by default.

 

I rebooted the server and, interestingly, before I played any music, 1 of the cores hit a peak of 4901 MHz and all the other cores hit a peak of over 4800 MHz. Even more interestingly, the average speed of CPU is higher when the music off (4.71 GHz, 3% utilization) than when the music is playing (4.65 GHz, 38% utilization). The temps are much lower when the music is off, but the CPU never gets hot when playing HQP EC, staying near 60 degrees Celsius - even with PCM DXD => ADSM7EC DSD256 + poly-sinc-ext2.

 

But all of this is academic. With the i7-9700K, it's just plug & play. HQP EC DSD256 is well within its ability, so it runs as fast as it needs to and it keeps itself cool (with active cooling) - automatically. Of course, you're free to go under the hood and make changes if you like.

 

This is the motherboard I'm using, but I expect you'd get similar results with any quality motherboard.

[k6davis]

While we're talking about servers, I would strongly recommend using Clonezilla to back up your entire OS drive. I run it on a bootable USB stick. It works with any OS. It's free, fast, extremely effective and very easy to use - once you've gone through it a couple of times. 

 

My drive is currently dual boot with Windows Server 2019 + Audiophile Optimizer and Ubuntu Desktop, both with HQP + Cuda, both with the OS's and HQP updated, licensed and configured. I've got all that saved to a single image with Clonezilla. Separately, I also have a Ubuntu Server + HQP Embedded + Cuda configuration saved to a Clonezilla image.

 

I can switch OS's at any time and don't have to worry about a drive going bad or screwing something up with my settings. I can always go back to a perfectly working, licensed configuration.

 

I run Roon on a separate (Windows Server 2012 + Audiophile Optimzer) server. I have a large library and find Roon's library backup to be extremely slow, flaky and cumbersome - when it works at all. With Clonezilla, I just back up the entire drive. And the optimized OS, Roon and its database are all safe.

 

All these backups only take as much space as necessary (Clonezilla doesn't back up empty drive space), so they all fit on a small portable drive or even another USB stick.