Best Audiophile USB Card ?

[Marcin_gps]

On 5/11/2019 at 4:43 PM, Nenon said:

 

Just to correct that the Jcat is 435 euro, not 750. 

 

Correct, the price  is 435EUR and the price includes free worldwide shippng via UPS too. 

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

On 5/13/2019 at 7:17 PM, FredericV said:

As a manufacturer, I tested a lot of these cards. Let's go a little technical.

It seems there are 3 variations of USB cards:

1) a real PCI express card, where the card acts as a xHCI, so a usb host controller which is a real separate device visible in the OS

with 2 main variations:

- xHCI is not bus powered so does not work when inserting in a PCIe slot, but needs 12V or 9V (e.g. SOtM)
- xHCI is bus powered, 5V for USB output can be taken from a molex or external input (e.g. JCAT)

and with or without superclock
superclock on the card, or separate board
and with or without seperate power for the superclock

2) a USB hub card, which basically connects to the USB headers on the motherboard

- there's a SOtM card doing this

This shows up as a HUB to an existing xHCI on the motherboard, e.g. visible with lsusb
Also has similar variations like (1) but it's a usb hub instead of an xHCI and therefore does not connect to the PCIe bus.

3) a USB card without HUB, which is like a USB breakout cable going from the header to the chassis, with some extra power cleanup going on or replacing the power from an external source and cleaning it up, and they can be had very cheap:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/pc-htpc-modules/elfidelity-axf-100-pro-iii-internal-usb-power-filter-for-pc-p-9056.html

Dutch based Alpha Audio really liked this card, we never tried them. But for the price it's a bargain.

The third variation is invisible to the host OS.

 

Correction: JCAT USB Card is not bus powered IF a PSU is connected to the card. 

 

Regards,

Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

13 hours ago, FredericV said:

 

For DAC's that don't need 5V, this card always works with the xHCI being bus powered (e.g. connected to the motherboard, and no external or molex power applied).

So you are saying when you connect a 5V supply, the Renesas chip is using the same 5V?

Correct. That's how it works in the latest FEMTO revision of the card. 

[Marcin_gps]

On 4/1/2021 at 11:44 AM, Topk said:

Speaking about listening comparisons, I did try the El Fidelity (EF) USB card that was mentioned above. It is actually surprisingly good and will sound better (yes significantly BETTER) than Jcat Femto and XE if your system is not fully sorted with top LPS like JS2, optimo/initio, SJ or PH....etc, ATX LPS etc. The EF sounds naturally very musical, fuller and warmer. But it can’t reach the level of Jcat past a certain point. 

 

So yes, the Jcat cards have huge potential and ultimately are in a different level than the EF (no doubt) BUT they need excellent power and generally speaking a very well sorted PC AND they need a higher end hifi system.

 

With a lower to mid end setup, I actually recommend the EF vs Jcat. A friend who had or tried Pink Faun, EF, Femto and XE says the same conclusion. He bought and left Femto on the shelf for more than a year and used EF until he maxed out his PC and only then the Femto was better (much better actually). 

 

The EF is only 39 EUR so the value for money is off the charts and you can’t go wrong... it’s probably too cheap psychologically for many people... just use a decent LPS (like a Allo Shanti or lower end Uptone) or even an Anker 20Kmh battery pack. With a top end LPS, the EF doesn’t sound so good paradoxically and you really need to move to Jcat or PF etc.

 

This finding is correlated by alpha audio website. You don’t have to believe me so just buy both Jcat and EF and let us know... you might be surprised.

 

for context I have a McIntosh based setup and an Asus/Apacer/AMD 3950x (16 cores) based PC streamer with 4 LPS

 

That's why we came out with OPTIMO 3 DUO and INITIO 3 power supplies - to extract maximum performance form the cards. 

The difference is night and day

 

Best regards,
Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

And JCAT set on the same USB host controller 8 years ago 😎

[Marcin_gps]

Just now, Dev said:

not the same USB host controller. Taiko, Core Audio and OAudio is using Renasus whereas JCAT is using ASMedia, if I am not mistaken.

JCAT USB Card and JCAT USB Card FEMTO use Renesas

 

JCAT USB XE use Asmedia

[Marcin_gps]

15 minutes ago, Dev said:

thanks for the clarification. Interesting that you went the reverse route than Taiko and others. Did the ASMedia sounded better than the Renesas is your testing or was there a different reason ?

Yes. I chose it on purpose based on the trials. 

 

Asmedia consumes slightly more power compared to NEC (renesas), but Asmedia has much better performance.

 

Also the NEC chip is old and I am not sure how long it will be availble. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

There is JCAT Master Clock upgrade coming for USB XE card too.

[Marcin_gps]

7 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Nice - retrofit or new product?

It will be an upgrade for current USB XE before new revision of the card is available.

[Marcin_gps]

I can't say yet :)

[Marcin_gps]

It won't be available until Q4 2023. 

[Marcin_gps]

16 hours ago, Mr Morris said:

Hi @Marcin_gps will the upgrade require return of the card?

 

Yes, because removing the SiTime OCXO is difficult due to small form factor. There is a risk of damaging the card. Also, the process of installing new socket is not trivial. But most importantly. at this extreme level, it is very easy to cripple clock's performance - all connections must be perfect. It's not specific to our product, but radio frequency (RF) engineering in general. We have a reliable process confirmed by measurements which guarantees getting the most out of the OCXO MASTER clock board. 

 

That said, we will look into offering door-to-door upgrade service for all USB XE customers. 

 

Here is the prototype OCXO MASTER clock board:

 

 

The socket on the USB XE card where the original SiTime clock used to be installed:

 

 

With the RF cable connected (both the connectors and the RF cable are absolutely crucial for final performance): 

 

 

And final setup:

 

 

The last but not least, the sound is on a completely new level in every aspect. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

I forgot to mention: the next revision of the USB XE card will be prepared to accept the OCXO MASTER board, so it will be plug & play. But like I said, the next revision won't be available until Q4 23 or Q1 24. It will include other improvements as well. 

 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

Yes, @Jarek_Jcat who is responsible for the design, made one for his etherregen already :) 

 

But the first batch we will have for USB cards. Unfortunately the lead time for OCXO of our choice is long..

[Marcin_gps]

14 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

Thanks - please mark me up for purchase for a 10MHz 50ohm version once available.  looks like you can power using JCAT Nano?

Yes, you can power with OPTIMO nano with very good results. Or OPTIMO 3 DUO via DC jack input. The difference in that application is not huge though. 

[Marcin_gps]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:30 PM, Mr Morris said:

Thanks @Marcin_gps do you have an anticipated  price yet?

 

It is going to be an expensive upgrade: it will cost between 800-900EUR. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

[Marcin_gps]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

Especially if the board will have the Connor-Winfield OH300-50503CF as picture in the posted photo.  That OCXO is just $33 an its phase-noise specifications are extremely average, with just -115dBc/Hz at 10Hz offset for a 10MHz version (so probably -109dBc/Hz for the 20MHz version they are using.  We routinely measure $10 Crystek CCHD-575 XOs at that level.

https://www.micro-semiconductor.com/products/Connor-Winfield/OH300-50503CF-020.0M

 

https://www.micro-semiconductor.com/datasheet/0e-OH300-61005CV-030.72M.pdf

I wish we could buy the OH300 for 'just' $33 which is the catalogue price.

 

The realistic price on the market is more like $85 at the moment. At least it is the best offer we could find. 

 

Regarding Crystek, the numbers you mentioned are hard to believe, because even Crystek claims -90dBc /Hz @ 10 Hz in their marketing materials: 

 

[Marcin_gps]

I can't comment on Pink Faun Ultra, because we don't know which OCXO they use. Only Pink Faun knows. 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

18 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

That's their spec for a 100MHz version.  Look again and you will see that for a 24.576MHz CCHD-575 they guarantee -100.6dBc/Hz at 10Hz. 

 

But the graphs Crystek sent us years ago with 3 samples of 25.0MHz CCHD-575 showed -108, -110, and -112 for the three samples. We immediately phoned them to get clarification. Were these selected or random samples?  They said random. Then why the big discrepancy between their published graphs and what they sent us? They said it is because they are a very conservative company, and because while they had greatly improved their production processes for the CCHD-575, they still have a lot of firms paying more for their big CCHD-957 (about $32 vesus $10 for CCH-575, qty. 250) and they dd not want to alienate them (or lose revenue I guess) by letting the world know that their lowly 575 was a bit of a giant killer among production XOs. 

OK

 

I'm not saying that Crystek is bad. On the contrary, it's a good value. We use it on our USB/NET FEMTO cards with great results.

 

Still, Crystek sounds poor in comparison to SiTime 5711 that we use on XE cards.

 

And the new OCXO board, again, sounds much better. 

 

Let's wait for feedback from customers. It will be interesting to read feedback from them. We can debate here, but eventually it's the sound that matters. 

 

It's midnight here, so I'm logging off for now. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

[Marcin_gps]

PS - testing an ultra-low-jitter clock is tricky. It requires a very expensive instrument. We are talking over 50k EUR.

[Marcin_gps]

JCAT has sth coming too ;)

 

Master OCXO board for USB XE Card will be launched next week.

[Marcin_gps]

17 hours ago, Argon said:

When can we expect to see the new USB XE Card / Master board on the site for purchase?  
 

I am preparing the product page now. I think we can start accepting orders on Monday. Stay tuned.. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

[Marcin_gps]

6 minutes ago, cpasmoi said:

hello Marcin

 

Does this only concern XE cards?

Are Femto excluded?

At first only USB XE cards will be upgraded.

 

We have to prepare a different adapter for the FEMTO series.

 

Best regards,
Marcin
 

[Marcin_gps]

Teaser 

 

[Marcin_gps]

4 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Is that an off board power supply?

No, it's a Master OCXO Upgrade board for the USB Card XE. It replaces the USB XE's standard small footprint OCXO. 

 

But I can see why you might have confused it with a power supply board, because there are two separate power phases: one for the oscillator and one for the output buffer.  

 

The proximity is important, but shorter cable is not necessairly a good idea. The custom RF cable we use keeps 50Ohm impedance from 100mm length. Using a shorter cable would break the specs. The RF cable is super important, otherwise there would be no point of using such a high-precision clock - the quality of transmission of the clock signal is absolutely crucial. There are MIL-SPEC SMA type connectors for outputting the clock signal too. There is no better way to do it. 

 

What are the benefits? It's like getting a higher-class DAC...

 

Marcin