Fas42’s Stereo ‘Magic’

[kumakuma]

21 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Okay, now that I've seen David's system, I can immediately see things that I would address - unless he has already done something about that. To me, the routing of cabling needs a lot of attention - and would be something I would do before even turning it on.

 

The sax player is also missing his sunnies.

 

[kumakuma]

12 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Doing the attitude thing, David, will get you nowhere - try and put your brain into gear, and we can get somewhere.

 

 

I don't see this as attitude. 

 

David is just expressing natural skepticism.

 

Your moaning about not having the energy to take pictures just doesn't track with the fact that you've been able to make 7759 often lengthy posts to this forum and spend what appears to be hundreds of hours on tweaking your equipment.

[kumakuma]

12 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Not presuming to talk for Chris but IIRC I do recall his suggestion to Frank along the lines of keeping his discussion of his 'method' to the couple of threads that are ongoing and relate to the topic. I think Frank said he was declined the ability to start up new threads that relate to 'the method' . If I am correct in both these things, my interpretation is that the intention is/was for most of this craziness to be contained to one or two threads and those threads can be placed on ignore

 

Rather than banning Frank entirely as other audio forums have done, Chris's approach appears to be trying to confine him to a limited number of threads.

 

In other words, a strange combination of social distancing and partial herd immunity rather than a vaccine. 👺

[kumakuma]

45 minutes ago, fas42 said:

The system I have is trivially obvious, and is as stated; the tweaks and workarounds are not simple, and completely invisible, or meaningless, in pictures. Thinking that an image of what I've done will tell you anything useful merely points that you don't understand my message.

 

I believe folks here are looking for proof that your equipment actually exists so I suggest that you also include a copy of today's newspaper.

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

But add further "generational losses", like the direct YT playback, as I described, then the imperfections of that first playback are now magnified enough to be clearly heard.

 

This makes zero sense.

[kumakuma]

6 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Ok, a little analogy, using the tape generational copy concept:

 

After 20 copy of copy losses of the original's integrity - like doing the same trick with a photocopier, of a sheet with text and pictures - the quality will be so far down that it would be absurd to suggest that they would be mistaken for each other. But what about if we go back, and look, or more specifically listen, for where the degradation is definitely there, to the point where it really sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb, or distinctly starts to irritate, because "it's too obvious!". So, for the purpose of the story, let's say this happens at the 6th copy - that is, unless you really, really trying to pick it, the 6th still, subjectively, gets a tick - but the 7th is a step too far - it definitely is inferior, and annoyingly so.

 

So, if we wish to listen to some captured, or studio manufactured music, and connect, subjectively, to it - we want to hear a version that is equivalent to somewhere between original and the 6th 'generation'. Impossible to get the original; the best we could do is 1 generation in the recording, and 1 generation in the playback - 2 generations of accuracy loss ... we are well in the good zone, 🙂.

 

What happens with an excellent recording, and mastering, etc? We only have 1 generation of degradation - so, now, plenty of margin for flaws in the playback side of the equation; we could lose the equivalent of 5 generations of quality, and still be on the right side of good hearing of what matters.

 

Where things become tricky is in when the whole set of recording, mastering, loss of original tapes, poor preparation of the distribution media, etc, operations all add up to being in the region of 5 generations of quality loss; then, no margin of error in the playback side; it has to be "as good as it gets", so that only 1 generation of loss occurs - the slightest overt deficiency then pushes it over into the 7 generations, or more, of degradation region - not particularly good to listen to!

 

So, now going back to capture of the Gryphon setup, the losses tipped over into the "7th generation" zone, when the direct YT replay was happening; but then, using the ruse of rewind and playing from the memory buffer recovered at least a generation of loss - I was now on the right side of the SQ equation, and the playback came over very well.

 

Obviously, can't take this numbering of quality losses too literally - but it gives an idea of how there is a juggling of quality issues, and the goal is to do everything one can do, to make the "number of generational losses" as few as possible.

 

People having different hearing could be equated to whether the 6th to 7th matters - some might get edgy at the 4th to 5th; and relaxed listeners might not bothered even at 10th or 11th, say.

 

You could have taken and posted dozens of photos of your system in the time it took you to write that. 

[kumakuma]

6 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Seems it takes people quite a few rounds on this forum, for things to sink in - I ... don't ... take ... photos ... ... of anything - my phone has an empty gallery, effectively - I only take a photo of something, if I really, really, really have to ...

 

Now, we'll see how many minutes this can last in people's memories ... this time.

 

And yet yesterday you said you would be willing to share photos...

 

 

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

IF you motivated me - I'm not seeing any motivational goodies, yet ... 😁

 

I would have thought that shutting up your detractors would be more than enough motivation... 👺

[kumakuma]

4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Ah, hahhh !!!

 

Just found the absolutely perfect "other person's same experience" to point to - this version of what happens is about as good as it gets, in nailing what the subjective transformation is like ...

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/193073-are-you-really-really-pleased-with-the-sound/&do=findComment&comment=2518822

 

 

I noticed that the guy you quoted has no issue sharing a photo of his system.

 

 

 

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

And that tells you precisely what??

 

That his equipment exists.

 

At this point, you've done so much ducking and weaving that I starting to believe, like others, that this is all some elaborate prank.

 

If you can't show your system, show us some of the modifications you've made to the equipment that's no longer in operation. You mentioned that you've still got it all. 

 

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

Right, just went out and snapped it,

 

 

You lucky things, it's even time stamped, by what's on the telly ... now, everyone can go back to their kennels, 🙃.

 

Good on ya, Frank! 👍

 

Wow, you weren't joking about the piles of papers on the speakers. Do they really go to the ceiling?

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Aarf. Aarf. The real magic is in the crystals! Secret revealed...

 

You're just envious that Frank is allowed to do this kind of stuff.

 

I know how my missus would respond to this level of "passion". 👺

[kumakuma]

9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

The takeaway was that digital can be so frustrating

 

 

Perhaps the way you two are doing it...

[kumakuma]

7 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

George, just don't read what I post ... it's very, very simple, you know ...

 

It's certainly the path that many others here have chosen but I can't help but think that it's a suboptimal solution...

[kumakuma]

35 minutes ago, fas42 said:

What disturbs people is that I'm talking about the same listening experience that nearly everyone has had at one time or another - where a rig gets into the 'zone' and produces totally enchanting SQ ... but I also happen to have spent a lot of energy working out ways of getting this to trigger; it becomes an engineering exercise to make happen. People don't want to hear this ... it has to be something that appears magically, like an apparition from Disneyland; preferably after lots and lots of money is thrown at it ... folks, it doesn't have to be that way, 😉.

 

If folks are truly this stuck in their ways, what value do your posts provide? Don't you have better uses of your time and energy?

[kumakuma]

Just now, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Let's vote with our feet and close this thread down.

 

I believe so many dozen pages ago I suggested to stop responding to the individual who is the subject of this thread. I then did just that thereby breaking one of my own golden rules which is never engage with these sorts of people. "These sorts of people" has been defined to some extent earlier in the thread, you can fill in the blanks. I will also not go into the full discussion of why people do engage but at least part of it is because you genuinely feel sorry for the individual.

 

However there is an agenda here which is plain to see and has also been touched on earlier in the thread. It is not innocuous and what is going on now is just sheer manipulation. There is a need for attention and the tactics employed demonstrate this. If you feed the problem it will get worse and unwittingly you become enablers of the underlying problem.

 

If there are no responses here in this thread "the problem" will spill over into other threads because there is both a need and a compulsion driving it. While all traffic is good traffic from a commercial sense, it will lose its shine when complaints start coming in from across the forum. I believe this is probably how the individual got banned elsewhere. Being banned to post is the only solution if the goal is to stop the posts.

 

If we take this by a "step-by-step" basis, the first step is to stop responding.

 

 

 

I agree. We need to starve this fire of oxygen. I'm out of here.

[kumakuma]

Just now, gmgraves said:

Well, I’ve been gone from this thread for almost a month. Just checked back to see if Frank was still babbling-on about his delusions regarding getting high-end results from mid-Fi (or worse) gear and concert hall realism from unlistenably poor recordings and got sucked in again!

 

Press the red button at the top of the page. You'll thank me later.

 

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, Allan F said:

 

He said sheepishly.

 

baa

[kumakuma]

22 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Another giveaway that the Kii designers don't understand what's important, from here,

 

 

 

These are precisely the gains that occur when speaker cabinets are better stabilised - but the designers of the Kii units don't seem to appreciate this.

 

I wonder what the Australian equivalent to "Armchair Quarterback" is...

 

 

[kumakuma]

15 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Just to explain how I interpret what Ray is saying here - 180 degrees is the vertical plane through the speakers being the dividing layer between your listening environment, and the recording event. Or, consider hanging a curtain full width across the room, from the ceiling to the floor - which just touches the front of the speakers ... everything on the recording occurs in another space, on the other side of this curtain.

 

360 wraparound means that the sound on the other side of that curtain bounces off everything in "your world" - and fully makes sense as being connected to the reproduced sounds ... a sense being completely immersed in the sound space being generated from the recording occurs - the room you're actually in "no longer exists".

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

What many people don't realise is that the mind has to believe in an illusion. In the world of sight everybody accepts that this can be done via a variety of techniques - but in sound many refuse to consider that such is possible. Visual illusions require everything to be in place - otherwise it fails, perhaps laughably so. Well, it just turns out to be harder to trigger the switch in the brain, for sounds - perhaps because the brain is fussier, IME because the technology is not as sorted. 

 

A vital requirement is that realistic volumes must be achievable without obvious issues - if you can do this, then the mind can trigger; and the immersive experience that live music generates, also happens for recording replay... 

 

[kumakuma]

26 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

The laws of physics don't dictate how the human mind can subjectively interpret the data it receives - a convincing illusion relies on the brain "deceiving itself"; and doing it in such a manner that even conscious, rational awareness that a trick is being played on it, doesn't make the illusion go away ... again, because this happens but rarely in the auditory world, it's easy for people to pooh-pooh that it can happen; but there are a vast array of visual tricks, found in plenty of textbooks, etc, that demonstrate how us humans interpret what we sense, when the data is of the right order.

 

I was very fortunate that the the setup I had 30 years ago was so precisely on the edge, that it could slip between a convincing illusion, and just normal stereo presentation, at will. I could repeat the switching between the two states as often as I liked; which meant I had plenty of time to investigate how it manifested - a very key difference was the level of visibility of the speakers; with the illusion in place, my brain refused to acknowledge that the speaker driver mere inches away from my face, with eyes open, was the  source of any sound; when the illusion collapsed, I could pick where a speaker was, with my eyes closed, on the other side of the room ... there was a dramatic change in how my mind dealt with the data coming in.

 

Getting good hifi is about exploiting this - knowing that this is possible makes it much easier to evolve a rig in the right direction ... @ray-dude is doing precisely this, and so reaps the rewards of making good moves ...

 

Ooh
You can dance
You can jive
Having the time of your life
Ooh, see that girl
Watch that scene
Digging the dancing queen

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

Well, it's easy to tell who has never experienced convincing audio replay ... 😁.

 

 

[kumakuma]

Just now, fas42 said:

It's nice to live in a universe where I know I'm always right ... 😃.

 

[kumakuma]

18 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Science and engineering have a long, long history of those at the top of the current order dictating what is possible, and what is impossible ... which is why I mentioned SpaceX. NASA being the big boys in the game declared that certain technical approaches "were impossible!" - and Elon did the finger sign at them ... and mankind moves on ... 😉.