Lies about vinyl vs digital

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2 minutes ago, The_K-Man said:

 

I'm still thumbing dude!  I guess I'm just not confident or happy to be typing on glass.  Been doing it for 7 years now, still feels alien to me.

 

I want that IBM desktop keyboard or Smith Corona back  😀

Swiping works pretty well.  It is possible on glass.  Something you couldn't do on actual keys.  Again, there is also dictating. 

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1 minute ago, mansr said:

And just how do you differentiate between, say, soon and son?

Say soon and son.  I just did this swiping. You learn to delay ever so slightly on a letter to double up on it.

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1 minute ago, The_K-Man said:

 

I looked under Add Keyboard, all I see are keyboards in about 50 languages.  I guess 'GBoard' or whatever is something one needs to download?

 

 

Yes. It's actually from Google. It isn't the only one either. I'm Android or I'd know off the top of my head. I swiped this too. 

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No need for that just learn to say period, comma etc. And then know how to pronounce whatever you want to say like say soon son. This just done via dictation.

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9 minutes ago, SJK said:

It was grade 9, in Fernie BC and either the province or the school board decided we should take typing class. 

 

Take a bunch of 13 and 14 year old boys, put them in front of a mechanical contraption, and make it a contest called “type words per minute”.  But wait!  There’ More!  

 

We have to deduct mistakes from your WPM!  My dad was a mining engineer, and he’s looking at my report card.

 

”Typing?  What the hell is typing?”

 

I explain we’re learning how to type.  He says “Well, that’s great.  You’ll make a wonderful secretary some day,”

 

That was in 1971.  I got my first computer, a Wang laptop (luggable) with a PC emulator card in 1984, and a real computer, a Compaq 386SE with a math coprocessor in 1986.

 

To this day I’m a wicked touch typist on anything with Qwuerty.  Who knew that typing would ever be useful? 

 

I've a similar story.  My Mom said I was taking typing.  I had no choice.  And boy am I glad she did. 

 

Now her insistence I learn to be a keypunch operator didn't turn out quite as well.  She said they always need keypunch operators.  Not a lot of money, but a good job part time while in college.  She had me take it at a local community school before 11th grade.  I was the fastest in the class too.  13,000 strokes per hour clean. At that time a whole page in the local paper had such jobs.  By my second year in college those were pretty much not around anymore.  I did use it as college computer classes still programmed main frames that way.  I earned a few bucks putting the programs of others on the keypunch cards.  So her suggestion did earn me more than the class cost I suppose. 

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3 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Off topic (mostly), you are lucky that you schooling required any kind of literacy. Some schools in the US don't even teach cursive writing anymore.  Scary stuff.

 

 

You are quite correct no cursive in many schools now.  That doesn't bother me as much as it once did.  I have written cursive so rarely in recent years it seems odd to do it.  

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42 minutes ago, rvb said:

Nowadays you can see the sound. 

 

1st is vinyl recording 24/96

2nd is cd

3rd is 24/96 -> 16/44

 

I'm guessing you didn't alter the size of the FFT used in your spectrogram when switching between sample rates.  That would explain the difference in appearance.  If you corrected the FFT size for each sample rate they likely would look the same. 

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On 6/2/2019 at 6:42 AM, John Dyson said:

 

The signal level is much higher on the vinyl (top) version.  If you notice that the colors are more saturated on the vinyl version -- that clearly shows the stronger signal level.  I suggest adjusting the spectrum parameters (spectogram settings when in the spectrum display mode), and try setting the gain to -10dB instead of the likely '0' dB setting.  Then diddle around the gain setting until there is the best possible match.  The big thing that is worrisome (I didn't read the entire context -- very busy) is that the CD version seems like it has the same rumble as the vinyl version.  There SHOULD normally be a lot less rumble (at about 100Hz or below) for the digital version than the vinyl version.  (There will still be bass signals where it will turn 'red' based upon the bass, but won't be the continual 'red' in the 100Hz on down range like vinyl will show.)

 

Reading spectograms can be tricky -- properly interpreting them can be even trickier.  I do it all of the time, and effectively utilize the information actually provided.  (More often than not, it is tricky to associate distortion with the signal levels -- and distortion is one of the major thingstahta i look for.   One little tidbit -- I have found that if you see that the spectogram has 'stronger signals' in the 8-12kHz range (than it really should), there is a liklihood that DolbyA had been used in the recording process.  (The stronger signal is only visible when there are other signals in the frequency region -- and that 'red' comes from very strong IMD -- often sounding reassurringly like brighter vocals.)

 

John

 

He needs to change the FFT size in step with the different sample rates.  If he's using the default 1024 at 44 khz, then he needs to use 2048 for 88 or 96 khz and 4096 for 192 khz to have a chance to usefully compare visually. 

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8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

no I never listen to music at all - it is just based on what "many, many members" tell me - and some of them have high post counts and are EE's

 

- or whatever other crazy indicia you've posted

I thought it was highly qualified EE's? 

 

Or is EE short for Electrical Encephalopathy?

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1 hour ago, marce said:

So how high can we hear?

I can confirm hearing to at least 38,000 feet (11,500 meters).  

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On 1/8/2020 at 3:50 PM, Allan F said:

 

If you could afford the astronomical cost of MF's turntable, arm, cartridge and phono preamp combination (assuming that, like me, you couldn't), you might view vinyl somewhat differently. And, as Firedog points out, MF has recently been considerably less harsh in his criticism of digital, while he still prefers vinyl.

And I might not.  His rig can't overcome inherent limitations in the medium, most especially the mastering necessary to stamp out a playable disc.  It is also possible having optimized his rig to gloss over or make acceptable the short comings of vinyl he has impacted some of the extra resolution that CD can provide when done well.

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On 1/8/2020 at 7:17 PM, lucretius said:

 

LOL! The "bits is bits fools" refers to anyone who claims that playing back a bit perfect file will sound the same each time (on the same equipment).

So you think it is like vinyl.  Playback varies with each playing. 

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1 hour ago, sandyk said:

I added the attached after the usual reactions.

 "For the benefit of the Richard Dale's and Mansr's of the forum, I was referring here to the levels of the differences that John and several other members are now routinely hearing between different changes that John has made with his Decoder. " 

I was not referring to bit identical files, although I was pointing out just how small differences may be heard, as evidenced by the extremely small measured changes that John often makes with his decoder settings.

 As I also said, ask John about this, as he agrees that we are all (John's small P.M. group from both sides) indeed hearing differences of a small fraction of a dB. 

Given that Checksums were never designed to need this kind of precision, it shouldn't be a surprise if they are unable to show minute audible differences like these that we are routinely noticing with John's minor corrections.   

I don't understand.  If you process a signal which produces a different output even into the tenths of a db, it won't be a bit perfect match.  So what are you going on about in regards to checksums being designed for this kind of precision?  Checksums weren't designed for audio at all, and work at a few orders of magnitude higher precision.

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2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

@sandyk enough about your bit identical files, it only leads to you raging beyond your control. This isn't a snark or joke. The past predicts the future. 

In this case, I fear the future predicts the past as well. 

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On 1/16/2020 at 3:13 PM, The_K-Man said:

 

The remastering of legacy(pre-1990) material was in response to the louder mastering of newer material from the late 1990s to present.  The original CDs or LPs of material before 1990 would sound 'too quiet' next to newer releases, which prompted the whole late-1990s-2000s remastering craze.

 

 

Once mastering engineers found out, by mid-'90s or so, that they didn't have to preserve every single peak from the recording sessions, and this schitt...

started happening on newer releases(think: Oasis 'WHAT'S THE STORY') - heavy peak-limiting combined with DRC - all bets were off. And they haven't looked back since! 

 

Try accomplishing  ^THAT^ in the analog domain, and it'll come off sounding like having an elephant fart while your head is up it's a$$!

Doing it digitally just sounds like the pure shit instead of gas.  I don't commend either result. 

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2 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

 

Try convincing the popular music industry of that.

 

Ever wonder why albums like Fleetwood Mac's 'RUMOURS' are in high rotation in my playlists?

I wish I could convince them, but they are lost cause.  The problem is infecting older recordings with it, and infecting genre's of music where such loudness is wholly inappropriate. 

 

The irony of inventing the quietest widest dynamic range recording and playback tech ever available, and the end result is squashed music that wouldn't strain the dynamics of an Edison cylinder.

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1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Tried the Second Hand News track, and there are issues - cymbal crashes are not right, so far.

I agree, but think it is very good otherwise.  Try a 2 db shelf down at 6 khz and above. See what you think then.

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1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

it's the analog version

What's the digital version?

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13 hours ago, The_K-Man said:

 

No excuses - zero - for it to be pronounced that way.  And for the American dictionary to allow it?

I blame it on the second Bush.  I detest it as much as the second Bush as well.