Ralf11 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, mansr said: Yeah, when you see that figure, you know you can stop reading. Yup - that's where I stopped. In part, because I was afraid I might fall down the stairs... esldude 1 Link to comment
semente Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 23 minutes ago, new_media said: Propagating the myth that a decoded digital signal looks like stair steps, for starters. Interestingly, in spite of the criticism regarding stair steps, many vinyl lovers are fond of NOS DACs which produce...stair steps. 🙄 Audio Note CD-4.1x, waveform of 1kHz sinewave at 0dBFS (1ms time window).Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-note-cd-41x-cd-player-measurements esldude 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Axial Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 35 minutes ago, new_media said: Propagating the myth that a decoded digital signal looks like stair steps, for starters. But it's only a graph, not a music session. * Lucky Man - Emerson, Lake & Palmer I have the record, the CD, the DVD-Audio. I don't have the R2R tape. When listening/comparing the three versions (using my scientific audiophile ears to evaluate), I prefer the record first and then the higher resolution from the DVD-Audio second. The CD is fine, a good show in third position. Digital doesn't fill the gaps...reconstructing the waveform by filling the missing parts? I recommend that you also read the two other articles. It's for fun, not for absolute. I love both analog and digital; they have their periods and influences on the psychology of the human brain. It's very interesting. Teresa and esldude 1 1 Sound Matters Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Just now, semente said: Audio Note CD-4.1x, waveform of 1kHz sinewave at 0dBFS (1ms time window).Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-note-cd-41x-cd-player-measurements I did - and the subjective impressions of the sound tick the boxes ... it isn't the fact that the player produces all sorts of terrible measurments that's the story; it's that key parts of the SQ are done right - the designer is just using another approach to avoid the digital processing originating anomalies that often disturb the pleasure when listening - I heard a CAL player 30 years that had a "nice" sound - its failures were of omission; half of the CD content was completely missing. Link to comment
Popular Post The_K-Man Posted January 29, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 29, 2019 15 minutes ago, semente said: Interestingly, in spite of the criticism regarding stair steps, many vinyl lovers are fond of NOS DACs which produce...stair steps. 🙄 Audio Note CD-4.1x, waveform of 1kHz sinewave at 0dBFS (1ms time window).Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-note-cd-41x-cd-player-measurements 8 minutes ago, Axial said: But it's only a graph, not a music session. * Lucky Man - Emerson, Lake & Palmer I have the record, the CD, the DVD-Audio. I don't have the R2R tape. When listening/comparing the three versions (using my scientific audiophile ears to evaluate), I prefer the record first and then the higher resolution from the DVD-Audio second. The CD is fine, a good show in third position. Digital doesn't fill the gaps...reconstructing the waveform by filling the missing parts? I recommend that you also read the two other articles. It's for fun, not for absolute. I love both analog and digital; they have their periods and influences on the psychology of the human brain. It's very interesting. Y'all need to climb down from those 'stairs' and watch THIS: Confused, esldude, Axial and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, STC said: If speed is what a sport car represent than no matter what you modify or “improve”, it is still cannot be the real thing. But raw speed is not the answer - the F1 would be a nightmare to try and use as an every day transport - a Porche can be used as a shopping basket; and, driven at 10/10ths of its capability with relative ease; it's the engineering that makes it compliant to the user. BTW, have downloaded those MP3s you posted a day or so ago - but haven't been in the space to listen to them properly, yet . Link to comment
Axial Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 On 1/27/2019 at 7:43 PM, Axial said: ⊙ https://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cds-may-actually-sound-better-than-vinyl-5352162 A fun article from some experts in the music business. ...Exactly four years ago to this day. In the last four years did we make any progress with recording sound quality, MQA? Where will we be four years from now, audio heavens? I also posted the link above last Sunday. Sound Matters Link to comment
STC Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, fas42 said: But raw speed is not the answer - the F1 would be a nightmare to try and use as an every day transport - a Porche can be used as a shopping basket; and, driven at 10/10ths of its capability with relative ease; it's the engineering that makes it compliant to the user. That's where the confusion lies. That is, what are you after? Ultimate speed and control or little bit of everything? 2 hours ago, fas42 said: BTW, have downloaded those MP3s you posted a day or so ago - but haven't been in the space to listen to them properly, yet . Take all the time you need. IMO, if you need time to tell the difference then it doesn't matter. There is no pause repeat button in live performance. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
The_K-Man Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, The_K-Man said: Y'all need to climb down from those 'stairs' and watch THIS: Teresa: Please approach the bench and state your dissent. Link to comment
esldude Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Oops someone already posted the good video. AudioDoctor 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 good video! No electron left behind. Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 54 minutes ago, STC said: That's where the confusion lies. That is, what are you after? Ultimate speed and control or little bit of everything? A lot of everything ... to be able put on on any recording, and not have the music captured on it compromised by the capability of the playback rig. In the first instance that means that it become impossible to detect that it is in fact a playback system, irrespective of where you listen to it; next goal, to be able to go to any sane volume level - this corresponds to the pure speed of the F1, say; final dollop of cream, to extend the bass to the deepest reaches of the recording with complete integrity - this last one is the most expensive, and the least value for money exercise to pursue - just getting drivers that won't generate audible distortion at reasonable output levels is a major exercise; I'm not interested in false bass. Link to comment
Axial Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 About false dynamic range? Sound Matters Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 False levels of frequencies that were never in the recording space, Bob. The lower the bass note, the greater the harmonic distortion, is the rule - so it may often happen that the 2nd or 3rd harmonics of some subterranean note in the recording is what you really hear - it's audible bass that has been invented by the distortion factory of the bass driver. Link to comment
STC Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, fas42 said: A lot of everything ... to be able put on on any recording, and not have the music captured on it compromised by the capability of the playback rig. In the first instance that means that it become impossible to detect that it is in fact a playback system, irrespective of where you listen to it; next goal, to be able to go to any sane volume level - this corresponds to the pure speed of the F1, say; final dollop of cream, to extend the bass to the deepest reaches of the recording with complete integrity - this last one is the most expensive, and the least value for money exercise to pursue - just getting drivers that won't generate audible distortion at reasonable output levels is a major exercise; I'm not interested in false bass. All these are relevant when someone argues that they are buying a Porsche to be used as a shopping basket too. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
PeterSt Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, fas42 said: it's audible bass that has been invented by the distortion factory of the bass driver. Now I'd like to have a real life example of what you mean. And not a theoretical one. A real example (album, track). Curious ... Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, PeterSt said: Now I'd like to have a real life example of what you mean. And not a theoretical one. A real example (album, track). Curious ... It's not the track that matters, it's the playback system. Find a track which has a synthesized very low note with no overtones - or better still, feed the system with a test track pure sine wave, at 20Hz say. Then monitor what the levels of 20, 40, 60Hz energy in the room are, at different volume levels. Finally, taking into account https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves, what are the perceived levels of energy at the frequencies of interest? Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, STC said: All these are relevant when someone argues that they are buying a Porsche to be used as a shopping basket too. But would you buy such a vehicle to only use as a shopping basket? If you're mad, perhaps so - but it's highly likely you would be pretty disappointed if in an emergency driving situation that it reacted only as well as a cheap, true shopping value only vehicle. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, fas42 said: vehicle to ... use as a shopping basket? AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, fas42 said: But would you buy such a vehicle to only use as a shopping basket? Lots of people do... Then they realize that walking into a Porsche dealer and buying the most expensive one, a GT model, wasn't a good idea because it isnt soft and smooth and quiet, etc... Which allows people like me to get them used. No electron left behind. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Lots of people do... Then they realize that walking into a Porsche dealer and buying the most expensive one, a GT model, wasn't a good idea because it isnt soft and smooth and quiet, etc... Which allows people like me to get them used. Ha!! or low WAF makes them dump it... or ... kids... Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Ha!! or low WAF makes them dump it... or ... kids... yes, I have a love hate relationship with the people that buy brand new Porsches. Not to mention the GT cars are just damned difficult to get brand new unless you pay a deposit years before the thing is out, and then wait a few more for the 918 owners to get theres... edit: I lucked out on the 991.1 GT3, mine was on the very first boat of them to the US. I had the first in MN. It was one of the initial batch with a bad engine... 😞 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 people that buy brand new Porsches are an important part of the food chain... I leased a Boxster S in 2000 -----> obligatory audio comment: the rear speakers really helped the SQ 1st one was a '75 ("bumper car") in Gulf Blue -----> obligatory audio comment: forget what radio it had current & permaPooschey is a hotrodded '73 unit body which is about the same power to wt. ratio as a 996 -----> obligatory audio comment: it has a SuperTuner Pioneer in it, but needs an amp to drive the Focal Poly Kevlar drivers I put i the doors, tho I have to say the 3.2L motor with a Monty muffler is the primary sound system Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 @Ralf11 obligatory audio comment... you need this: https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/classic/genuineparts/producthighlights/navi/ No electron left behind. Link to comment
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