Wildly Off Topic: Articles 11 + 13 & Permissible Bounds of Free Speech

[Ralf11]

I'll be glad to send you a possum recipe if you want to have a shot at it

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I'll be glad to send you a possum recipe if you want to have a shot at it

Sure. Thanks ..and we have plenty of possums I could take a shot at too...alas we don't have guns lol. 

[rando]

No shootin' involved.  First step in any possum recipe is finding a fresh one on the roadside.

[Ralf11]

16 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Sure. Thanks ..and we have plenty of possums I could take a shot at too...alas we don't have guns lol. 

 

How about a Croc gumbo?  Just sub that for alligator - and if a Cajun can wrestle an alligator then surely an Australian can wrestle a slat-water croc

[fas42]

Ahhh ... the power of the net ... https://www.yelp.com.au/search?find_desc=Gumbo&find_loc=Sydney+New+South+Wales

[Jud]

3 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Yes, it has occurred to me, but since there was no real agenda in those days

 

Come on.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

2 hours ago, rando said:

No shootin' involved.  First step in any possum recipe is finding a fresh one on the roadside.

 

Yep, nothin' whets the appetite like a side of road-kill for dinner !

 

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

How about a Croc gumbo?  Just sub that for alligator - and if a Cajun can wrestle an alligator then surely an Australian can wrestle a slat-water croc

 

Wrestling crocs is a right of passage in Oz. Croc Gumbo, 'roo stew, and a side of shark steak to give it that surf n' turf flavour. All on the Barbie of course ?

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Ahhh ... the power of the net ... https://www.yelp.com.au/search?find_desc=Gumbo&find_loc=Sydney+New+South+Wales

 

There ya go. Hell there are Tibetan restaurants in Sydney, pretty much anything you can imagine.

[SoundAndMotion]

5 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Yes, it has occurred to me, but since there was no real agenda in those days, and since they mirrored what people who were there said, I figure that the chances of them being wrong was much less than the later books which were being written at a time when a great injustice was being rectified.  Also, the further one gets, in time, from an event or series of events the greater the chance that details will be wrong. Watching documentaries on Discovery and Science channel about subjects I know about, I hear egregious errors all the time. Makes me want to yell at the TV!

 

You may want to consider your sources. TV, “pre-civil-rights elementary school history books” and “elderly people I knew as a child who were born in the 1860s and 1870's and were alive during Reconstruction” are one way to go. Carefully and skeptically-chosen books written for adults are another.

 

The distance in time from an event is important, but even events from last week are reported differently by different people. There is a vast trove of documentary evidence from that time to allow even modern historians to try(!) to piece together the truth.

 

The “real agenda in those days” probably included saving face and avoiding shame. Very much like Germany after WWII. Your account of Jim Crow reminds me of what I learned from my father and paternal relatives about Germany at that time. Interestingly, it matched what I learned in elementary through high school in the US. Germany was after all our good friend in the 60’s and 70’s. “The Holocaust was planned by a few evil men at the top and carried out by culturally-obedient Germans just following orders. The average German knew Hitler was anti-Semitic, but since he fixed the broken economy and got rid of the high unemployment, they ignored all the unpleasant rumors (fake news).” My relationship with my father never recovered from our arguments about my reading Daniel Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners in 1997 (a book).

 

About your textbooks matching the verbal accounts: keep in mind there is no objective “Central Agency for the Teaching of History” in the US. Your textbooks were chosen from a variety of options bought by your local school board and may well have matched what they wanted history to be.

[firedog]

5 hours ago, Daverz said:

 

Bwahahahaha!

 

The agenda was called The Lost Cause.  Millions of people still cling it, apparently, and it's seeped into the general discourse in all sorts of pernicious ways.

There was a revisionist agenda in the South from before Appomattox. And for gmgraves to contend that there "was no agenda" is laughable. It also shows complete ignorance of how history textbooks are chosen in the US. The process is fraught with agendas and always has been. In the South before the Sixties there would definitely have been a tendency to choose only textbooks that reflected the false narrative prevalent at that time.

[firedog]

5 hours ago, gmgraves said:

One of the main (and historically, only) advantages of multiculturalism is, given a large enough population of any nationality will result in authentic restaurants catering to it. Yum Yum!

Uh, unless you live on an isolated island, all cultures are multicultural. Cultures grow and develop because they interact and absorb each other's ideas. And not just in food. Pretty much everything you value in your culture will have roots, at least partially, in some "foreign" culture.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Come on.

When it is your agenda, it isn't one. Only when something contradicts what you "know" to be true does it become an agenda.

[Jud]

8 hours ago, SoundAndMotion said:

 

You may want to consider your sources. TV, “pre-civil-rights elementary school history books” and “elderly people I knew as a child who were born in the 1860s and 1870's and were alive during Reconstruction” are one way to go. Carefully and skeptically-chosen books written for adults are another.

 

The distance in time from an event is important, but even events from last week are reported differently by different people. There is a vast trove of documentary evidence from that time to allow even modern historians to try(!) to piece together the truth.

 

The “real agenda in those days” probably included saving face and avoiding shame. Very much like Germany after WWII. Your account of Jim Crow reminds me of what I learned from my father and paternal relatives about Germany at that time. Interestingly, it matched what I learned in elementary through high school in the US. Germany was after all our good friend in the 60’s and 70’s. “The Holocaust was planned by a few evil men at the top and carried out by culturally-obedient Germans just following orders. The average German knew Hitler was anti-Semitic, but since he fixed the broken economy and got rid of the high unemployment, they ignored all the unpleasant rumors (fake news).” My relationship with my father never recovered from our arguments about my reading Daniel Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners in 1997 (a book).

 

About your textbooks matching the verbal accounts: keep in mind there is no objective “Central Agency for the Teaching of History” in the US. Your textbooks were chosen from a variety of options bought by your local school board and may well have matched what they wanted history to be.

 

I can't like this post enough times. The Goldhagen book ought to be required reading for everyone, to show where responsibility for historic wrongs is properly allocated, and who has the power to prevent such wrongs currently and in the future.

[gmgraves]

12 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

How about a Croc gumbo?  Just sub that for alligator - and if a Cajun can wrestle an alligator then surely an Australian can wrestle a slat-water croc

The problem in Oz as I see it, is the crock you want to substitute for alligator is quite lible to EAT YOU! Those Aussie salt water crocks are a nasty bit of business.  

[Ralf11]

True, but an Australian is supposed to be able to handle salt water crocs by age 13 - it's a rite of passage

 

Besides, I told him to eat a slat water croc - much easier

[Allan F]

On 6/24/2018 at 9:27 AM, Jud said:

 

I can't like this post enough times. The Goldhagen book ought to be required reading for everyone, to show where responsibility for historic wrongs is properly allocated, and who has the power to prevent such wrongs currently and in the future.

 

As you probably know, while Goldhagen's book is certainly thought provoking and worth reading, the basis for his findings and both his interpretation of and conclusions drawn from facts have been the subject of much controversy and criticism by other authors, e.g. Nathan G. Finkelstein, Ruth Bettina Birn, Christopher Browning and others.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Allan F said:

 

As you probably know, while Goldhagen's book is certainly thought provoking and worth reading, the basis for his findings and both his interpretation of and conclusions drawn from facts have been the subject of much controversy and criticism by other authors, e.g. Nathan G. Finkelstein, Ruth Bettina Birn, Christopher Browning and others.

 

Yep. There was a lot of reaction to what some people saw as a reverse "collective guilt" viewpoint on Goldhagen's part. 

[Rt66indierock]

On 6/23/2018 at 5:22 PM, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Yesterday at a conference an Irish speaker, linguist and 'culture expert', informed me that Australia is one of the most multi-cultural nations on the planet and with 25% of the population not born in this country! It presents certain 'challenges' but gotta love the mix of food available. What seems sorely under represented is Creole/Cajun cuisines. I have never tasted a Gumbo.

(Aussies) is there a recommended Creole/Cajun restaurant in Sydney?

Miss Peaches