Good Class D amps ??

[crenca]

7 hours ago, Matias said:

Bruno has left Hypex a while ago and is now one of the owners of Purify Audio. He is finishing a next generation of class D amplifiers which are superior to nCore: the Eigentakt. More info here:

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/purifi/

 

Thanks.  At first I thought it was "just another project" but:

 

"...Hypex and I separated amicably a while ago so they're not involved in any of the new work. Measured and sonically, the Eigentakt circuit isquite a step up in performance from Ncore. So we're indeed looking to establish it as the new high-end standard. Purifi is actually three entities – one that does fundamental research into both loudspeaker driver units and amplifiers, then two subsidiaries to commercialize drivers and amplifiers respectively..."

[Matias]

Yes, and the preliminar specs of the Purify 1ET400A module look superior to the Hypex NC400: lower THD and IMD, higher efficiency.

 

2020 will be a very interesting year for class D with a strong new player on the market.

 

Specsheet

https://6moons.com/wp-content/uploads/audioreviews/purifi/1.pdf

[firedog]

16 minutes ago, Matias said:

Yes, and the preliminar specs of the Purify 1ET400A module look superior to the Hypex NC400: lower THD and IMD, higher efficiency.

 

2020 will be a very interesting year for class D with a strong new player on the market.

 

Specsheet

https://6moons.com/wp-content/uploads/audioreviews/purifi/1.pdf

It looks like it is supposed to be more of a challenger for the Hypex 1200; which puts it in a different price category, I’d think.

[Matias]

NC1200 is a lot more powerful (watts), but distortion is lower on the 1ET400A module.

 

But the 1ET400A is just 1 of the modules. They are probably going to release more modules with different power ratings, variants with/without embedded power supply and buffers, etc. As well as finished products under the Purify brand.

Let's wait and see.

[mrkoven]

Do you guys think the Nuprime ST10 is the best class D under $2K?

[Matias]

NAD is going first, probably others will follow (Bel Canto? Jeff Rowland? Marantz?).

 

The following is a press release issued by NAD.

Munich High End 2019 | Munich, Germany | 3 May, 2019 – NAD Electronics, the acclaimed high fidelity audio brand with more than 45 years of leadership in performance amplifier innovation, announced that it will be the first international brand to incorporate and launch PURIFI’s new patent-pending class-D technology into its product family. The amplifier circuit, known as Eigentakt (meaning “self-clocking”), is the result of years of research by PURIFI into the self-oscillation behaviours in class-D amplifiers with algorithms that, when applied in control loops, improve existing designs by an order of magnitude or more. The agreement will see the two companies cooperate to adapt the Eigentakt circuit to NAD’s signature design requirements, with the intent to create a new amplifier platform for future, yet-to-be-announced products from NAD.

“The Eigentakt technology is unique,” explains Bruno Putzeys, Co-Founder at PURIFI Audio. “Amplifiers carrying the technology will be exceedingly indifferent to speaker load, volume level, and signal content, resulting in negligible THD and IMD levels, and will feature exceptionally clean clipping.”

According to measurements by PURIFI, the Eigentakt circuit is expected to outperform any audio amplifier known, regardless of technology or class, with THD and IMD quoted as below 0.00017% at all frequencies and power levels, and the frequency response in the audio band remains within +/- 0.01 dB under all load conditions. In addition to its status as a ground- breaking technology, it also represents one of the first products to be commercialized by PURIFI, which was founded in 2014 by industry veterans and renowned audio experts Putzeys, Lars Risbo, and Peter Lyngdorf.

“Our NAD design team, led by Greg Stidsen, Taresh Vadgama and including the late Bjorn Erik Edvardsen, have maintained a close working relationship with Bruno, Lars, and Peter over the years. Clearly we all share the same commitment to audio excellence so NAD is pleased and proud to be at the forefront of adopting PURIFI’s class-leading technology,” said

Gordon Simmonds, CEO of the Canada-based Lenbrook Group, owners of NAD Electronics as well as other high-fidelity audio brands, Bluesound wireless multi-room and PSB Speakers. “Our teams are already fully engaged in the process of developing a next generation amplifier platform that will feature this circuitry, keeping NAD and our other brands at the forefront of audio technology as it begins to weave into our product roadmap.”

“I have personally been involved with NAD Electronics and have known the Lenbrook team for 40 years,” said Lyngdorf, Co-Founder and Chairman of PURIFI. “NAD is the perfect collaboration partner for this new technology and we look forward to their implementation, as we are sure it will propel the industry’s expectations for high-fidelity amplifiers.”

[firedog]

Will be really interesting to hear (about) these when they debut. NAD has done some good things with their own implementation of NCore. If these are really an order of magnitude better, they could be game changers if at some point the price isn't in the stratosphere. 

[Matias]

Does this form factor and pins of the Purifi Eigentakt 1ET400A...

 

...look familiar to the Hypex NCore NC500 OEM??

 

Fingers crossed here for the boards to be pin compatible so that we get the possibility of user replaceable upgrades.

[NOMBEDES]

Take away.  Don't buy any Class D until 2030.  The up grades are coming so fast that any purchase will be a waste of money.

 

 

[Ralf11]

If these are really an order of magnitude better, will they cost an order of magnitude more?

[firedog]

Guessing they will cost more than the NC1200. I think the cheapest NC1200 on the market is about $3500. And that’s just recently, since they’ve apparently decided to make the 1200 something more like their other NC “commodity” boards. Guessing five figures for sure for any complete amp. L

[crenca]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Will be really interesting to hear (about) these when they debut. NAD has done some good things with their own implementation of NCore. If these are really an order of magnitude better, they could be game changers if at some point the price isn't in the stratosphere. 

 

In my opinion, unless they are not priced 'in the stratosphere' they can not be game changers.

 

At the risk of losing my objectivist credentials, once you push into the "high end" price range then everything should sound really good/great, have good features/implementation, etc.  NADs/PURIFI  THD/IMD numbers are past the point of meaning, as are most modern solid state amps (tubes have their own rules with their inherent characteristics).  So it comes down to that part of the sound that do not correlate with measurements, speaker interaction, etc...  

[Matias]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

If these are really an order of magnitude better, will they cost an order of magnitude more?

 

I believe it is more like CPU chips or smartphones: every few years comes a new technology that incrementally pushes the performance, a new family of products is released while keeping more or less the same prices, and previous products lose a little value.

Let's see.

[fas42]

What counts at these levels is not the measured spec's, but the robustness of the designs. That is, with any sort of electrical noise or poor behaviour in the vicinity, do they still perform at the same admirable levels? If they don't, they will be ultimately unsatisfying - every aspect of the enviroment will "change the sound"; and one is caught up in the same game, still ...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - We have a great opportunity for a Q&A with Bruno and Lars of Purifi. Here is the info:

 

 

[Curio]

Hello folks,

I'm trying for the first time in my audiophile life this Cass D .. got two NuForce Reference 20 new from a local dealer.

They are sounding from a week.

My rig .. Pass Labs X1 preamp .. TW Acustic Raven One TT with Graham Phantom II and Benz Micro LP cart. .. upgraded combo 

Philips CDD 882 Transport with Philips DAC 960 .. Thiel CS 2.4 loudspeakers

Power Cords all Shunyata .. two Venom HC on amps and two Delta NR on pre and phono.

Cardas Golden Reference spkr. cables

Previous amp : Odyssey Audio Stratos .. than Parasound Halo JC1's .. and lately Primare A32

 

Well .. I didn't think these two R20 can feed my hungry Thiels .. and not only they work splendid they really shine!

Fantastic soundstage .. not less than JC1's and Primare .. maybe a bit tall too .. deep and super wide .. tonally neutral .. no differences from previous amps .. perhaps clearer in the mid expecially on voices .. 

Since these two R20 were new from boxes I guess they 'll improve with next weeks .. so I 'll tell you about improving in sound.

Btw .. I just can say I'm investigating about the new NuPrime Evolution One .. someone says they are a step ahead the R20.

I can't imagine how good they can be!

 

My cent!
 

[Matias]

@Curio Class D amps seem to take longer to burn in, so that after some 200+ hours they perform better. 

[Curio]

4 hours ago, Matias said:

@Curio Class D amps seem to take longer to burn in, so that after some 200+ hours they perform better. 

Hello Matias,

Are you meaning I need 200+ hours with units sounding or just powered on?

[Matias]

@Curio 200hs playing music, and not low volume, mid to high. Makes the amp "flex its muscles" and sounds better afterwards. 

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, Matias said:

@Curio 200hs playing music, and not low volume, mid to high. Makes the amp "flex its muscles" and sounds better afterwards. 

Yekk .. this means months 😞 

[gdpr]

If you really believe you need 200 hours, it takes approximately 1 full week.

Just decouple your speakers and let you amp do its thing, playing music continuously.

Dirk

[mocenigo]

1 hour ago, ddetaey said:

If you really believe you need 200 hours, it takes approximately 1 full week.

Just decouple your speakers and let you amp do its thing, playing music continuously.

Dirk

 

Without entering in the matter of whether burn in is real - in that case it requires a load. Buy two good 8++ Ohm resistors (100W or more), terminate them with short cables and let the amp work through them at a strong volume. Check the temperature with a thermometer, to avoid burning.

 

 Roberto

[Ralf11]

"But wait!!  There's more!!!"

 

your speakers are not a purely resistive load, so will the resistor have the same effect on 'burn-in' as the complex impedance presented by the speakers???

 

👻

[mocenigo]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

"But wait!!  There's more!!!"

 

your speakers are not a purely resistive load, so will the resistor have the same effect on 'burn-in' as the complex impedance presented by the speakers???

 

👻

 

It is just to put the amp with a proper load, to avoid damage with some designs or inactivity (hence no burn-in) in others. 

 

 Roberto

[Ralf11]

my point (as crazy-audiophiliac as it sounds) is that if burn-in exists for a Class D design, maybe - just maybe - a purely resistive load will not accomplish burn-in