I2S Performance - Singxer SU-1 or Mano Ultra?

[T-Bone]

I think most of us would agree that connecting your DAC via USB pretty much sucks.  If it didn't, there wouldn't be a growing market for isolators, decrapifiers, regenerators and digital converters.  

 

To get an I²S signal into my DAC I use a Singxer SU-1 to convert a USB input signal to I²S output.

Magni HiFi is now selling an updated version of their streamer, the Mano ULTRA.  (link)  

The Mano ULTRA takes an Ethernet input and creates an I²S output.  

 

I'm wondering which of these two devices is going to give me the BEST performance?  

 

The Mano ULTRA is supposed to have improvements in power distribution, better capacitors, an upgraded power supply and an improved reclocking circuit.

I have zero experience with the original Mano or the new and improved Mano Ultra.  I thought I'd bring my question to the group for feedback.  

 

[FredM]

1+ for the topic! I'm also interested in the difference between the two. If there aren't a lot of people with first hand experience with both models, I guess it would also helpfull if someone can discribe the difference with an other popular model (ie SOtM, Sonore, ..)

 

To add an option: how would the SU-1 with a decent external Masterclock perform, this could well be an serious improvement. Perhaps this would perform on sMS-200 Ultra/ Ultra Rendu level?? Perhaps someone from the SU-1 topic can chime in? 

[roberto2]

I think that it depends on which unit is before the Singxer SU-1. 

One thing is a Singxer SU-1 fed by a basic PC; another thing is a Singxer fed by a Sotm sms-200 Ultra!

 

I have heard a basic Mano in my system and it works very well but for me it was not at the same level than a Sotm sms-200 + W4S Recovery + Singxer SU-1 feeding my Audio-gd master 7 dac. But of course it is not at all the same price level!

 

[T-Bone]

That's exactly the kind of "daisy chain" that I'm trying to get away from!  
An SMS-200 feeding a Singxer will probably sound great - but defeats the stated purpose of getting USB out of the signal path.  ...now if the Sotm SMS-200 had an I²S output - it would be a different story.

 

You stuff your music into Ethernet packets, unpack them in the SOTM, packetize them again in USB, push them through a Singxer SU-1 unpack them again, reclock everything and then push it out via I²S.  

 

I'm trying to get to *ONE* device to feed my DAC!

 

[Panelhead]

  I use a Thunderbolt cable. From computer to dac. Works well and the sound quality is great. 

  The cables are 30 - 40 dollars at the Apple store.

[jamesg11]

What dac accepts a Thunderbolt cable?

[roberto2]

20 hours ago, T-Bone said:

That's exactly the kind of "daisy chain" that I'm trying to get away from!  
An SMS-200 feeding a Singxer will probably sound great - but defeats the stated purpose of getting USB out of the signal path.  ...now if the Sotm SMS-200 had an I²S output - it would be a different story.

 

You stuff your music into Ethernet packets, unpack them in the SOTM, packetize them again in USB, push them through a Singxer SU-1 unpack them again, reclock everything and then push it out via I²S.  

 

I'm trying to get to *ONE* device to feed my DAC!

 

If your goal is to have ONE only device then I would go for the Mano, but I have not tried VS a computer feeding the Singxer SU-1. 

Again, I think there will be a noticeable difference in sound quality depending on the Computer quality feeding the Singxer SU-1.

If you don't want to spend time in tweaking a PC or a Mac the Mano will be a very good choice.

You can ask Jos from Magna Hifi as he is a reseller of Singxer too.

[seeteeyou]

That PSU inside Mano Ultra might not be as good as this one because LT3045 should be one of the best out there, not to mention that we could bypass Raspberry Pi's voltage regulators thanks to the modular design of Mezzanine 

 

Mezzanine Power board for Raspberry Pi

http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/mpower.htm

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/316150-mezzanine-power-board-raspberry-pi.html

 

Let's say we're indeed spending €995 on Raspberry Pi-based audio endpoint, we could simply send our own RPi 3 to SOtM. They'll modify both 19.2MHz and 25MHz clocks by replacing them with sCLK-EX while the SQ should be able to beat Mano Ultra easily.

 

Since we could also take advantage of 2 remaining clock outputs from that sCLK-EX board, it makes sense to replace 2 more clocks as shown below

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/192465-asynchronous-i2s-fifo-project-ultimate-weapon-fight-jitter-367.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/291261-cool-raspberry-pi-odroid-i2s-dsd-isolator-hat-native-dsd-decoder.html

 

Finally we just need either kit for the I2S output

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-endpoint-ethernet-input-and-i2s-hdmi-connector-output/26218/35

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-interfaces/hdmi-i2s-lvds-to-i2s-input-module-hdmi-i2s-lvds-to-i2s-output-p-12422.html

 

Everything mentioned above should be fairly small and we could fit them inside a single case, tough that wouldn't be as neat as RaspTouch

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/boitiers-diy-boitiers-divers/rasptouch-black-chassis-and-accessories-kit-diy-p-11248.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/boitiers-diy-boitiers-divers/rasptouch-black-chassis-and-accessories-kit-diy-p-11248.html

 

14 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

What dac accepts a Thunderbolt cable?

 

Not exactly DACs but there are quite a few audio interfaces for the professional audio market

 

Thunderbolt Audio Interfaces
https://www.thomann.de/gb/thunderbolt_interfaces.html

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1089--Thunderbolt_Audio_Interfaces

 

Lynx LT-TB (Thunderbolt)
https://www.lynxstudio.com/products/lynx-lt-tb-thunderbolt/

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

That PSU inside Mano Ultra might not be as good as this one because LT3045 should be one of the best out there, not to mention that we could bypass Raspberry Pi's voltage regulators thanks to the modular design of Mezzanine 

 

Mezzanine Power board for Raspberry Pi

http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/mpower.htm

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/316150-mezzanine-power-board-raspberry-pi.html

 

Let's say we're indeed spending €995 on Raspberry Pi-based audio endpoint, we could simply send our own RPi 3 to SOtM. They'll modify both 19.2MHz and 25MHz clocks by replacing them with sCLK-EX while the SQ should be able to beat Mano Ultra easily.

 

Since we could also take advantage of 2 remaining clock outputs from that sCLK-EX board, it makes sense to replace 2 more clocks as shown below

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/192465-asynchronous-i2s-fifo-project-ultimate-weapon-fight-jitter-367.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/291261-cool-raspberry-pi-odroid-i2s-dsd-isolator-hat-native-dsd-decoder.html

 

Finally we just need either kit for the I2S output

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-endpoint-ethernet-input-and-i2s-hdmi-connector-output/26218/35

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-interfaces/hdmi-i2s-lvds-to-i2s-input-module-hdmi-i2s-lvds-to-i2s-output-p-12422.html

 

Everything mentioned above should be fairly small and we could fit them inside a single case, tough that wouldn't be as neat as RaspTouch

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/boitiers-diy-boitiers-divers/rasptouch-black-chassis-and-accessories-kit-diy-p-11248.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/boitiers-diy-boitiers-divers/rasptouch-black-chassis-and-accessories-kit-diy-p-11248.html

 

 

Not exactly DACs but there are quite a few audio interfaces for the professional audio market

 

Thunderbolt Audio Interfaces
https://www.thomann.de/gb/thunderbolt_interfaces.html

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1089--Thunderbolt_Audio_Interfaces

 

Lynx LT-TB (Thunderbolt)
https://www.lynxstudio.com/products/lynx-lt-tb-thunderbolt/

I'm putting together a Sparky Roon streamer for I2S output pretty much like the above, with Ian Canadas McFIFO & McDualXO isolator & reclocker boards and the HDMI LDVS module at the end. I'll be upgrading the clocks too and powered by my own PSUs. Adding a SoTM sCLK-EX is a nice a idea ..:)

[tboooe]

On 2/15/2018 at 6:05 AM, tapatrick said:

I'm putting together a Sparky Roon streamer for I2S output pretty much like the above, with Ian Canadas McFIFO & McDualXO isolator & reclocker boards and the HDMI LDVS module at the end. I'll be upgrading the clocks too and powered by my own PSUs. Adding a SoTM sCLK-EX is a nice a idea ..:)

Are you planning to sell this awesome sounding device? ?

[tapatrick]

16 hours ago, tboooe said:

Are you planning to sell this awesome sounding device? ?

...when I get it all working properly I’ll open shop ...?

[tboooe]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

...when I get it all working properly I’ll open shop ...?

Count me in!  Esp if you need any testers.  I'll be happy to buy one as its being developed.

[tapatrick]

On 2/26/2018 at 2:30 PM, tboooe said:

Count me in!  Esp if you need any testers.  I'll be happy to buy one as its being developed.

Update: It's all going very slowly with this project...  For anyone following this I am now waiting for a HDMI module from Audio GD in china. The modules from Audiophonics in france do not look like the photos they have on their website which show pin headers. The ones they sell only have the tiny brittle bare wires glued to the inputs and are not suitable for my project which need to be connected to U.fl coax cables that carry the I2S signals. 

I have not been impressed with Audiophonics, their website has often the incorrect photos and they do not answer questions very well which has resulted in lots of delays. They sent me a bag of brass fixtures instead of the HDMI module I ordered and when the module finally arrived it turned out to be the wrong one!  Now waiting for a HDMI module from Audio GD. They have confirmed by photo that it is the one I need. King is very helpful and responsive.

[tboooe]

@tapatrick thank you for the update!  Definitely looking forward to more updates as you make progress.

[tapatrick]

I finally got my Sparky chain working! After much trial and error I've got a basic set up with music playing this evening. What a relief after many weeks of multiple attempts.  Sounds very good so far, and surprisingly clean and spacious but its early days yet and needs a few days burn in before commenting fully...

 

The chain is Sparky SBC (with music from an attached USB drive or over the network) > Ian Canadas McFifo > McDualXO boards > Audio gd HDMI module > using the I2s input on my PS Audio Junior DAC. I'm currently running Volumio. Now I can start experimenting to get Roon ready and possibly Dietpi running. Apart from sorting out multiple connections I kept trying various driver selections in Dietpi, Ropieee, Picoreplayer. Then in Volumio instead of the I2S DAC options I tried HDMI output (see pic) and that worked, so I realised I've been following the wrong assumption about which outputs should work. More soon when I have a chance to experiment some more. Just enjoying the payoff with the sound opening up significantly after an hour of playing 

 

 

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, tapatrick said:

 

 

Keep your cat away from that set up!  

[tapatrick]

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Keep your cat away from that set up!  

Yep, my wife and daughter roll their eyes when they see me tinkering with this stuff for months on end! But I always know on CA amongst fellow inmates I will be understood ?

[chauphuong]

Just a side note, the back of Mano gives me the impression that inside is a Rasp Pi 3.

[hurka]

Sms Sparky Ultra I2s-R2R balanced  slave

 

sclk ex powered pure nesscap

sparky pwr. lps1.2

R2R pwr. pure nesscap

[PhilSLG]

I bought a Mano Ultra II.  Sounds superb and better than my previous Roon Nuc+ > USB > Matrix (Farad Super3 LPS) > PS Audio Directstream  setup and Bridge II > PS Audio Directstream.  I use an EtherREGEN and AQ Dragon 48 HDMI.

It’s apparently a significant upgrade from the first generation, which is glowingly reviewed independently here:  

 

[BlueSkyy]

I just added a Denafrips GAIA DDC to intervene between my HTPC's USB port and my Denafrips T+ via I2S and am loving every minute of it.