Pure Music

[Bob Stern]

barrows said: "PM loads each track into memory separately (unless the album is tagged as gapless) so there will be a pause (while a track is being loaded) between tracks which is not present when playing back through Itunes-this can be annoying on live albums, and with classical (and even a few rock/pop) where the track changes, but the music is actually continuous through more than one track. If you have enough RAM, you can tag these albums for gapless playback, then PM will load the entire album into memory, and play it straight through without gaps (dropouts)."

 

The problems I reported with occasional skips and an infinite loop were with the tracks tagged as a gapless album. Activity Monitor reported PM's memory usage as 1.5 GB (!), confirming it actually was playing from RAM.

 

[Bob Stern]

I agree that the level of attacks on this thread and the Weiss DAC202 thread has become unreasonable.

 

Everyone on this forum should realize that there are essentially religious differences among audiophiles regarding the relevance of digital protocols, bit perfectness, upsampling, cables, power filters, IC's versus discrete transistors, amplifier feedback, you name it.

 

It is utterly pointless to dispute people's views on these subjects because they are very close to religious beliefs that are unlikely to change. Disputing such views merely creates hostility without contributing to the discussion.

 

Audiophile-quality computer audio is a fledgling hobby, and we're not going to attract new enthusiasts by creating a hostile environment. Until recently, the congeniality of this forum has been a plus compared to the Asylum, but that no longer seems true. Let's all try to return to our former congeniality.

 

[barrows]

well said!

I hope that you do not perceive my comments as anything less than congenial. Here I am just trying to understand why others are having problems that just do not exist for me, and if I can help to do so.

 

[Phil Townsend]

Last year at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest I toured the rooms with a friend. We listened to the same music at the same time and in the same seats. But what I heard and what he heard were miles appart. He loved this room I hated it, I love that room and he hated it. I dont recall if we ever heard one that we both loved. We did find some unity in a few rooms we both disliked.

 

I have been a long time member of the Joe Net and quarrels are very very rare.

Why is it that no one seems to get in these log jams.... Simple... It is simply YOUR opinion and nothing else. You are entitled to YOUR opinion even if you are totally and completely wrong. But what works is simply that the other members let them be wrong without pointing it out.

 

(JoeNet drived from Sound Practices started by Joe Roberts) (and boy is he evver wrong... just ask him... AB man

 

 

 

[ted_b]

I've removed two of my issues (ipod touch not having time bar active, and hitting play for every song). These were both solved (can't recreate so far) by making sure that the first time I launched PM I made sure PM was the "front" app, not iTunes (the app that appears on top line; the active app). This was done by simply clicking somewhere on PM display area once first song was chosen/playing. From then on PM remained in front, regardless of album or song chosen, and the above-mentioned issues became moot.

 

 

 

[barrows]

I agree on opinions, but I do not think that is what is relevant in this thread.

This thread is about some people having real problems with PM, and some others not having those problems. I do not think anyone posting here thinks the problems (sound dropouts, tracks repeating, pausing, etc) are a matter of opinion.

 

[timztunz]

I have not tried this but there is a post in another forum that says that the user tried the 64bit boot option on his Mac but that the sound quality was worse. Then he offered as some sort of explanation the fact that iTunes is a 32bit application. I don't know how much of that I'm buying because if iTunes is only the library manager and the sound quality is coming from Pure Music, what does iTunes have to do with the sound quality anyway? But then begs the question, can Pure Music benefit from the 64bit OSX? Has anyone tried this?

 

[Paul R]

While I agree with your sentiment Bob, I would also point out that things people are passionate about create passionate conversations.

 

When those subjects are difficult to discuss in objective rational terms, then the discussions tend to become even more passionate. If you also allow that decisions on the subject often involve significant expenditures on equipment - well - as can easily be seen, those discussions can often approach or seem hostile.

 

Every community, especially online communities, goes through this and has to learn to deal with it. Some communities just choose to ban the subject matter, resulting in many people feeling that they are being censored or otherwise repressed. That is not necessarily true in every case, but it does happen.

 

Other communities refuse to self censor themselves even to the point of having any respect or civility for each other. We have all seen those.

 

The best communities find and strike a balance between the two. Most, if not all, the people who participate feel their contributions are welcome and if not always agreed with, at least read and understood by their peers.

 

I quite disagree with some of the ideas held up around here, in point, your assertion that the differences between folks here "are essentially religious differences."

 

I do not think they are religious at all - though the opposing sides can sometimes get pretty fervent. There are no reasons that will forever remain hidden, beyond our ken. There are rational, totally natural, answers that explain all the different beliefs. Indeed, while all the different beliefs may seem contradictory, I suspect that when we uncover enough facts, all of the differences will be explained in a perfectly logical manner. Including finding that some - perhaps even a significant number of differences - are best explained as expressions of the placebo effect.

 

This is a contentious opinion in this company, and because of that, I try to be extra polite when expressing it. I hope I manage to strike a balance that allows me to disagree with people here while still making it obvious that I hear them when they speak, and that I respect their opinions and experience.

 

I beleive this forum has pretty much struck that balance, and that indeed, that makes it a jewel almost beyond price. Good work on Chris' part, as well as the dozens of other contributers here.

 

-Paul

 

 

[cfmsp]

I installed the latest version of Pure Music on a different system yesterday, but experienced basically the same results.

 

System is PowerPC-based G5 with latest version of Leopard (10.5.8) and latest version of iTunes. dac is Metric halo LIO-8 connected via Firewire to the G5 and via custom adapted ASI Livelines to balanced inputs on First Watt J2. System is also dedicated music server with many tweaks to strip out unnecessary software, etc.

 

I experienced the same inability to play a song when following the on-screen instructions. I also was unable to play sample rates less than 44.1kHz successfully.

 

I did uninstall amarra but this offered no improvement.

 

Bob, were you able to eliminate any of your issues by uninstalling ilok or Amarra?

I didn't check to see if the amarra uninstall also eliminates ilok.

 

As before, when letting PM do the driving, playback was generally fine. I did not experience the "skipping record" effect this time. I was able to get selected songs to play only by double-clicking on them, as was the case previously.

 

[Bob Stern]

My issues with Pure Music were unaffected by Amarra because I never installed Amarra on the Mac Mini on which I installed Pure Music. (I had temporarily installed Amarra a few months ago on my MBP, borrowing the iLok from an Amarra owner.)

 

The iLok uninstaller is separate from the Amarra uninstaller.

 

After you run the Amarra uninstaller, I suggest checking the iTunes plugin folder that I mentioned previously. The Amarra uninstaller that I tried a few months ago did not work at all. However, the iLok uninstaller did work.

 

[drewspin]

Does Pure Music support the playback of multi-channel high rez audio files, e.g., 5.1 channel 24/96 ALAC?

 

If so, any tips on how you can get these to show up in the iTunes library?

 

[cfmsp]

Thanks Bob,

 

so your issues were not related to Amarra, and my similar issues were not specific to Metric Halo devices, so we can rule those two out as possible sources.

 

FWIW, I ran the iLok and Amarra uninstallers and still had issues, so mine are definitely NOT related to either.

 

hmmm....

 

does Pure Music have an 'uninstaller' or is one left to sort that out by themselves (which might suggest that it shouldn't matter)?

 

update: results of the logging option of CleanApp indicate that a preference file and a folder for plug-ins are the add'l files in a default install of Pure Music. Deleting the plist file seems only to increase chances that the first instance of selecting a song and pressing play will work. Subsequent instances of attempting to start a song by pressing Play (either iTunes or PM's 'play' button) do nothing but pause playback, as has been the case with all my tests thus far.

 

This is taking up valuable time, and so far, I've not solved the most basic issue - Pressing Play to initiate playback.

 

PM sounds good, but not better than other programs I listen to, so... I'm about ready to leave this task to those with more interest in getting it to work, unless someone has more ideas to try.

 

punxsutawney clay

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

I tried bringing Pure Music into 'focus'before pressing Play in iTunes, thinking that perhaps the same thing applied in my case, but this did not help.

 

glad things are working better for you.

 

clay

 

[cfmsp]

"Clay, have you set your Audio Midi to "Built in" as described in the manual? It works either way for me, but fewer issues switching resolutions when it is set to "built in". Just a thought..."

 

Built-in seems to only deliver output if in Hog Mode.

I had been testing in the default setup, which seems to require Audio Midi set to my LIO-8.

 

thanks

clay

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

"Would playlists fix the problem?"

 

Blu, it would probably help a lot in that it would eliminate the need to start play to a single time per playlist.

 

Unfortunately, that's not how I listen to music much of the time. I'm more likely to play (individual) songs based on the whim of my 'inner DJ'.

 

A player that would automatically track my inner DJ sessions and put them into a playlist would be perfect!

 

clay

 

[cfmsp]

 

"Maybe this is a contributing factor for you too?"

 

Sadly, this did not resolve any of the basic issues I was having.

 

And frankly, I'm quite happy for that. I can only imagine the 'pissing contest' if some interaction between the two programs was found to be causing problems in one of them. ;0

 

clay

 

[barrows]

Clay:

 

"punxsutawney clay" awesome.

 

I just wanted to let folks know, I was able to cause a few glitches in PM by using Less is More, and then clicking on a bunch of stuff in Itunes-I would never listen this way for any reason though.

Perhaps it is time for you to just listen to music with Amarra! After all, trying to get something to work for you which is not eventually seems like a waste of time that could be better spent.

Amyway here is how I use PM with no problems, for those still willing to try:

 

MacBook (black) 4 Gb RAM, ext Firewire drive library. Toslink (usually) or USB out to DAC. Audio Midi set to 24/96 before launching PM.

Launch PM, set to memory play, and invert (my DAC inverts polarity). Click on Itunes field to bring Itunes to the front, select album from grid view. Click play button in Itunes. Click on PM field to bring PM to the front. Listen to music.

Next album-click on Itunes field to bring Itunes to the front, click all albums to scan library, select album from grid view (double click). Double click first track of new album. Click on PM field to bring PM to the front. Listen to music.

Repeat...

 

[cfmsp]

"Perhaps it is time for you to just listen to music with Amarra!"

 

Right now I use different players depending on which DAC I'm using. One is an alpha version that only works with certain interfaces, if/when it becomes available for use with both of my DACs, I'll be using it exclusively.

 

"After all, trying to get something to work for you which is not eventually seems like a waste of time that could be better spent."

 

All good (former, in my case) software developers have a stubborn streak when it comes to problem solving.

 

 

"Click on PM field to bring PM to the front."

 

What does this do? Is this just for the display?

 

Pressing Play occasionally works for me when it's the first song selected. After that double-clicking is the only thing that will initiate playback of a selected song, which is not a big problem. The occasional hop, skip or jump, or losing sync with iTunes are the more substantive issues.

 

FWIW, the Leopard-based system seems to be having less issues than the Snow Leopard install. PM doesn't work with Tiger, so I can't see if further OS regression improves it even more!

 

I did play through three straight CDs worth of music tonight with nary an issue, and nary a mouse click.

And it sounds better than it's ever sounded, but presumably that's due to the LIO-8 and the new, custom ADAPTER-less, TRS->XLR balanced ASI Livelines to drive the J2.

 

Hopefully, you'll approve of the cables!

 

clay

 

 

 

[barrows]

Hey, it's all good!

Well PM states in the manual that it will work better if it is the front screen during playback, I never tried testing the difference, I just took their advice and made it a habit to make it the front screen.

Glad to hear your system is singing, you have the Devore 9s now? I bet they are a much better match for your J2 than Virgos.

I know quite a few folks who love Jon Devores speakers.

I have no experience with the Livelines, I trust that they are sounding good for you though, I am certainly happy with my cables, so no need to listen to others right now, gotta find a new job (get some money), and then sort out my source...still working on ideas...

That new software sounds interesting, I guess you cannot talk about it now-I hope it offers another good option if/when it becomes available.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Two things:

 

1. "punxsutawney clay" is the best thing I've read all week.

 

2. It's great to see the discussion move on to helping each other out. Thanks guys.

 

[Bob Stern]

Clay, I don't think double-clicking is an officially sanctioned method to play a track. You might try the Return key instead and see if it's more reliable.

 

Apple's list of iTunes shortcuts:

http://www.apple.com/itunes/how-to/shortcuts.html

 

[timztunz]

"Well PM states in the manual that it will work better if it is the front screen during playback, I never tried testing the difference, I just took their advice and made it a habit to make it the front screen."

 

What exactly is the process for making Pure Music the "front screen"?

 

[catastrofe]

Just click on the PM side panel so that it's the active program. When the program is running, there are 2 "panels" available, the PM panel and the iTunes panel. The idea is to have iTunes in the background. You can see the iTunes window, but the control is with PM. If you click in the iTunes panel to select a song, go to a playlist, etc., then click back on PM to make it active again.

 

HTH. . .

 

Bob

 

[timztunz]

Got it. Thank you.

 

Do you know if, after you have done that, and then begin using the Remote app with an iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad to pick another artist, album, playlist, etc., has that put PM in the background and brought iTunes to the front, or is PM still in front?

 

Sorry for asking, I know I could check this out for myself. But I'm not at home and blessed with impatience.

 

Tim

 

[4est]

"Built-in seems to only deliver output if in Hog Mode.

I had been testing in the default setup, which seems to require Audio Midi set to my LIO-8."

 

I realize that you may be "over it" with PM, and I wouldn't blame you. Especially if I had other options as you seem to. If you are still interested in getting PM to work, you might want to play with this. I have had occasions when something got funky, and needed to restart the computer in order to reset it. As I had briefly mentioned before about the drivers for MH (I am not saying it is MH fault), but mine can get weird when I start making changes- ie: I will not "take" the changes I have made in that menu such as applying Hog mode, or remembering that my Weiss is the output and not built in etc... When this is "wrong" it is very quirky, akin to what you have described. I wish I was more educated on the whys and wherefores.

 

I anxiously await news of other players, and hope that Rob can sort out some of these quirks.