Best USB cable to use between computer and dac?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi lolo77 - Thanks for the update. By the way CA has a lot of readers in the Paris area :~)

 

[Andrew S.]

Or the even more affordable Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable...

 

I also like the Kimber...cheap and works great.

 

[rom661]

Again a disclaimer that I'm a dealer for the product I'm going to mention. I don't know the best USB cable there is. Until recently I was still playing around with whether or not there was a difference....

 

Because of both my having an ax to grind, so to speak, and the simple fact that I haven't heard that many "higher performance" USB cables, I will keep it simple. I tried the early Kimber, didn't like it, cut off the ferrite, as Gordon suggested and it was OK. I haven't heard their newer efforts but have heard they are improved.

 

Audioquest is just getting ready to ship their line of USB cables. I got a couple of pre/early production samples. One is about 50 bucks, the other 160 or thereabouts. Absolutely a difference. The less expensive is smoother, a little on the rich side. The more expensive, Carbon clearly has less edgniness, is more expansive, more natural.

 

I don't know how these guys compare with competitors and won't pretend to. In the context of a good system and DAC (Wavelength Cosecant, Ayre QB-9, Audio Research DAC8) they make a worthwhile and cost effective difference. Yes, $160 isn't cheap but if it makes a truly worthwhile improvement in a 2500 to 5000 product, it represents good value (Higher performance/price points are on the way). Another way to look at it is that, for less than the sales tax of a high performance DAC, you can elicit a very worthwhile improvement, with these or other good cables.

 

As always, try before you buy.

 

Rick

 

[Erwin S]

Looking forward to the arrival of my Weiss DAC2. Already ordered the recommended Oyaide Neo-W d+1394 6-pin to 9-pin in 1 meter lenght straight from Japan to connect it to the Mac mini. It's 50€ but by the time it's on my doorstep, this will be more like 100€. Still better than the German store who asks for 199€!

 

Now the HD. Eloise kindly informed me that USB will be a good trouble free choice. It's the Onnto 4-Bay (which also has FW). I'm already sorry for not ordering the cool looking (green!) Oyaide USB cable (25€) with the FireWire, which would have saved some shipping costs. To late for that. Now, I have read a good part of this thread and still can't find the answer whether the HD to Mac USB interconnect can be the provided by Onnto item or should I get something better? IMO, for a such a cable, 25€ is a no-brainer, 50€ better be good and 100€ is the maximum. But that's just me. It's also very difficult to AB these things, since most are packed in blister and the seller would obviously be resistant in letting you try before you buy...

 

[steveaustin]

Audiophile USB cables from AQVOX - the inventor of audio USB-cables

This audiophile highend USB cable is for sure one of the best, if not THE best USB cable on the market. Cable Suppliers

 

[ajay556]

I was using a USB cable direct to my DAC. Each USB cable made a difference in sound quality. But now that I am using a USB to SPDIF converter to my DAC. Using the $1000 USB cable or the cheapest USB cable makes no difference in sound now. Anyone have the same experience?

 

[Torero]

That is a fabulous question. I have an usb converter too, the M2tech Evo and i would like to know if there is some difference between hight end usb cables and the usb standard cable that i'm using now.

 

[barrows]

I am using the Wavelink with a Wireworld Starlight USB cable. The Wavelink shipped with a Wireworld Ultaviolet USB cable, and I have a Nordost USB cable coming. The Wavelink brought my system up a level, and I will be doing some USB cable comparisons when I receive the Nordost cable. I'll compare:

 

1. Generic USB cable to Starlight first,

2. Ultaviolet to Starlight

3 Nordost to Starlight

 

Using Starlight as my reference. I only like comparing two things at a time, and prefer to do long term comparisons with any which are close. So this process will take awhile. I will post my results in this thread.

with Asynchronous USB interfaces I expect the differences between cables may be small... but we shall see.

 

[Jim Smith]

I look forward to hearing about the Nordost USB cable.

 

We're more or less scheduled to use it with the dCS Paganini at CES, and there's a chance that I may not get to hear it first. Scary.

 

I'm using a 2M Transparent which I really like, and I've wondered if I should smuggle it to CES...

 

[barrows]

At RMAF, Roy Gregory and Lars Kristensen were doing demos comparing the Nordost USB vs. Transparent and Synergistic, the Nordost clearly bettered these two cables to my ears.

But Jim, you know enough enough about setting up show systems that I am sure you will bring along the Transparent, just in case!

 

[Charles Hansen]

USB Class One Audio runs at Full Speed mode which is 12 MHz and supports up to 96/24 audio files. To go beyond this (176.4 and 192 kHz) requires Class Two Audio. This requires what is called High Speed mode and runs at 480 MHz!

 

This is 40x faster than "normal" USB audio. Since we have started shipping DACs capable of 192 kHz we have seen a rash of failures due solely to the USB cables. These have universally been cables from "audiophile" companies.

 

There is a huge world of difference between getting something to work at 12 MHz and getting it to work at 480 MHz. Many of the "audiophile" cable companies don't have the equipment to design and/or test for these high speeds. Bottom line:

 

a) Try before you buy! We've had plenty of people with USB cables that cost them nearly $1000 that wouldn't work, while the cheap "throwaway" we include with our DACs works fine.

 

b) Shorter is better for High Speed (192 kHz) audio. One meter is fine. Two is usually OK if the cable is properly designed. Three is sketchy. Four is usually out of the question.

 

[GeorgeW1238]

I'm also using the Kimber silver USB cable.

It is very flexible and in my system it sounds good.

Keep the length as short as possible.

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Rat out the rats. Please? Pretty please?

 

[barrows]

Thanks for weighing in. I have not had any problems with USB 2, 24/176.4 and 24/192 (Wavelink) playback with the Wireworld Starlight, and I do not expect to have any problems with Nordost's new cable either, as my understanding is that it (Nordost) meets USB 2 spec pretty easily, and is specifically designed to be "high speed". Of course, neither of these cable models are "hand crafted" types of cables, despite being from audiophile providers.

I do wonder what USB cables are not up to USB 2 standards though... I would guess these might be the very expensive, limited production type of cables, perhaps from companies that do not have their cables tested to meet the standards.

 

[Charles Hansen]

I don't think there is any point in naming names. Some of the problems were with cables that work perfectly at 2 meters but the customer was trying to use a 4 meter cable.

 

With an asynchronous DAC, there is a "feedback pipline" whereby the DAC tells the computer to speed up or slow down the rate of transmission according to how full the data buffer is. Electrical signals travel at the speed of light in a vacuum but slower than that when there is a dielectric (insulator) nearby. A typical velocity in a cable is about 80% of the speed of light. (Don't be fooled by ads that try to convince you that a higher propagation velocity means the cable is better. It has no known correlation with any particular sound quality parameter.) So there is a length limit, simply due to the round-trip transit time of the signals in the cable.

 

Other cables may fail to work with High Speed now but will no doubt be redesigned shortly to work properly. So the problem will correct itself soon.

 

And regardless of the reputation of the manufacturer, it always pays to try before you buy. Only you can determine if a particular cable creates a sound quality improvement in your system. And if you are using High Speed USB, even guys that should know better can still make mistakes. 480 MHz is pretty darned fast! Everything has to be perfect. The weapon of choice is called a "time domain reflectometer". It sends a pulse down the cable and then looks for reflections due to impedance mismatches. These can occur due to variations in the insulation thickness and/or spacing of conductors in the cable itself. But the hardest part to get right is the connectors. Even the amount of solder used in a joint can affect things. Try before you buy.

 

[ar-t]

Which is why we have a TDR. It is not likely many other companies do. It shows up things the average listener would not imagine. For the speeds involved, for the higher speed transfer, things are much more critical. Not surprised a lot of cables do not work. You can not treat these cables, in the same manner as one would for audio. (That approach doesn't work for SPDIF, yet the same misconceptions still are numerous.)

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

That you might help someone avoid making a costly mistake -- it's not always possible to try before you buy -- are there vendors that you really like or at least have found no issue with, Charlie? (No ratting out that way ....)

 

[barrows]

on my part: but the fact that Gordon Rankin includes a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable with the Wavelink would indicate that he thinks the Ultraviolet is fully capable of performing properly for USB 2.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

New USB Cable from Acoustic Revive. At least it looks like it does something that justifies a different price -- but wow, what a price. $750 for 1m! Does make me curious if, one, it would even work, and two, if it works as advertised. Info below:

 

 

Found At The Cable Co!

 

Acoustic Revive's USB-SP

 

Manufacturer's Description:

 

The USB-SP employs an entirely new ground breaking structure - it uses two A-Plugs to separate the Signal and power lines from the output terminals. As a PC is normally equipped with several USB outputs, you can connect the Signal and Power lines separately, resulting in a dramatic improvement in sound quality.

 

It is widely known that the radiated noise from power cables affects signal cables and damages sound quality when a signal cable and a power cable are installed in parallel or come into contact with each other. However, most USB cables available on the market have the signal line and power line in one cable together - we can easily imagine how sound quality is deteriorated by this structure.

 

Some high-end USB cables have independently shielded signal and power lines. However, these two lines are in close proximity in the same cable and are constantly causing noise reflections inside the outer shielding tube which will significantly damage sound quality.

 

The power supply lines in USB cables transmit a large amount of 'noise' that is generated by the PC (computer). This 'noise' seriously degrades the quality of the signal being transmitted and therefore, audio sound quality is greatly reduced.

 

USB-SP and USB-PL are equipped with two independent cables consisting of a two-core shielded structure with a 100% shielding effect obtained by using a copper foil. This is the only USB cable which is successful in stopping noise interaction between the power and signal lines.

 

 

USB-SP and USB-PL USB cables are 100% Made in Japan and are equipped with our maximum technology to realize the highest-end sound quality, i.e.

 

- Conductor: Thick 0.8? Solid single-core PCOCC-A (the highest diameter USB cable currently available on the market)

 

- Outer shielding with Carbon SF tube to prevent radiation noise

 

- Original USB plug made from 2017S air craft grade aluminum alloy

 

[tarquineous]

Are we supposed to know what TDR is ? Please explain or say what it stands for.

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

A quick Google search of TDR and Wikipedia returns this:

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer

 

 

Charles mentioned TDR by name, rather than acronym, in the post immediately above Pat's.

 

 

clay

 

 

[tarquineous]

Thanks Clay.

 

I would like to see these kind of tests on cables and connectors. In fact, the whole circuit should be tested, including inside the component.

 

It still wouldn't tell you how it sounds in comparison to other designs, but it would ensure quality control.

 

[CG]

"I would like to see these kind of tests on cables and connectors. In fact, the whole circuit should be tested, including inside the component."

 

Gee, and everybody wonders why audio equipment costs so much.

 

Take for example a cable maker who sells a USB cable through dealers for $200. Not exactly a cheap cable.

 

Based on some quick research, if the builder (let's assume a small manufacturer) bought a suitable used TDR from eBay, and s/he took no profit from the sales of the cable, and performed the measurement labor for free, guess how many cables h/she might have to sell just to pay for the TDR?

 

Try about 100. That's for a bargain TDR that will do what you ask, too.

 

Now, add in making system measurements...

 

How many $200 cables do you think a small manufacturer sells in a month?

 

I'm only trying to put all of this into perspective. (No - I'm not in the cable business. Or the audio business. But I do know a lot about TDR's and network analyzers, so if enough people are willing to pay for the TDR and my time, I would consider making custom measurements for any of you!)

 

[barrows]

Having a small degree of experience working for a company that designed, manufactured, and distributed an audio cable line I can point out this:

It is not entirely uncommon (although probably not common as well) for a cable manufacturer to send prototype, and first beta production samples out for testing, including in some cases, TDR tests. Now I cannot say which manufacturers might do this, and certainly all cables are not tested this way, but it is very possible that this type of testing is done by some of the better cable companies-CG is certainly right about the economies of scale in this case-only larger cable companies, with good marketing and wide distribution, are going to sell enough (expensive) cables to support testing like this.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

all have tax implications, especially as you amortize all of the depreciation over the life of the investment. It's not everything, and certainly doesn't zero out the cost, but it's not nothing. Just something to keep in mind.

 

Said another way, there's a cost to doing business. And doing business right costs a bit more. It's the job of marketing to make that "extra effort" very explicit to the market.

 

Interestingly, TDR results rarely (if ever?) get mentioned in marketing material for cable specs. So, either the results aren't worth mentioning, the results are problematic in some way, the tests aren't done at all, or marketing doesn't feel the results have value to the consumer. Like I said: interesting.