Best USB cable to use between computer and dac?

[Tog]

"people who cannot hear the difference in cables either have a hearing problem or are pathological liars by their own making."

 

Charming ... so let me get this straight Tarqy, because after all, as you have already pointed out, this bear is an idiotafter all so it make take me some time to grasp......no... oddly enough it didn't

 

the basis of your elegant treatise is that those who dare to disagree with your views are either deaf or delusional liars...

 

cool..really cool man...

 

"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff."

 

Cicero

 

yours,truly stunned by your eloquence, tog

 

[4est]

The reason why this thread has gone of the deep end is that implied in the OP's question "Best USB cable to use between computer and dac?" is that you discern a difference. Those of you whom do not really have no place in this discussion. It is sort of like going to a church meeting and complaining about the lack of empirical evidence that God exists. If the OP had posed the question "Do USB cables make a difference?" it would be much different. As it is, I have to wonder why it is that posters such as Scot and Tog feel such a strong need to present their opinions on this type of thing. Really, you have made your opinions clear in many threads throughout this forum. Hiding behind rhetoric or a teddy bear does not change this. Really, are you two that bored? Let these guys teach each other something and go play in your own sandbox.

 

FWIW, I do not care this, I use Firewire...

 

[tarquineous]

I appreciate that point of view from lots of experience. We need to remain sane with the exorbitant prices and claims out there.

 

Thanks,

 

Tarq

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

"As it is, I have to wonder why it is that posters such as Scot and Tog feel such a strong need to present their opinions on this type of thing. Really, you have made your opinions clear in many threads throughout this forum. Hiding behind rhetoric or a teddy bear does not change this. Really, are you two that bored? Let these guys teach each other something and go play in your own sandbox."

 

Gee, Forrest. Thanks! I'm truly touched by your concern. Your clarity here has truly helped move the conversation in a helpful, positive fashion and revealed something heretofore hidden for me. I am deeply grateful.

 

Perhaps someday, you might actually consider the novel & dangerous idea of actually reading a thread before killing it.

 

Have fun kicking sand.

 

[4est]

And how is your insistence that it doesn't matter other than removing power progress this conversation? You have made those points clear many a time. My point is that posting in the manner you've done (and I have read the majority of this) makes it difficult for occasional posters to feel comfortable asking questions or posting their observations for fear of ridicule or cross examination.

 

Me kill the thread? I am just trying to get it back on the topic of actual products someone may have tried, which I understand to be the OP's question.

 

 

[Tog]

"those who will only talk to like minded people end up talking to themselves"

 

The rest of us, (bears included) quite like the cut and thrust of opinionated discourse with the added bonus, in this forum, of talking to interesting, funny people who love listening to music and fiddling with their latest gizmos.

 

It is fun to mix with people who know a little bit of science, or electronics or have the wherewithal to build fantastic stuff like Gordon.

 

The best thing about this site, the one that distinguishes it from all others, is the kindness and courtesy shown by its members. No tirades, no abuse and no prejudice.

 

They even let bears in....

 

So if Tarq or Forrest want to throw their toys out of the pram and be discourteous to others when they could be constructive ... that is up to them.

 

bored? No chance .... now try explaining your argument again.....

 

yours, enjoying the view, tog

 

 

 

 

 

[audiozorro]

Plot summary from Wikipedia

 

Sarah Cloody is upset that she has to spend the Halloween weekend at Cuddle Bear Land, a teddy bear themed amusement park, instead of going to Monster Mansion (called "Midnight Mansion" later in the story), because her five year-old sister Katie (called "Princess") hates anything scary. What's worse, her parents won't let her get a souvenir stuffed Cuddle Bear.

 

Once they arrive, Sarah is immediately put off by how cute and babyish the entire park is. All the attendants dress up in realistic Cuddle Bear outfits, and nearly all the rides are for babies. Except for the Roarin' Roller Coaster, which her parents let her go on by herself if she meets them back at the Hibernation Rest Center by 1:30.

 

After going on the ride five times, Sarah decides to head back to the Rest Center, but she gets lost and winds up going in a circle back to the Roarin' Roller Coaster. Sarah then finds herself at the Cave, the employee lounge. Inside, one of the Cuddle Bear attendants, named Kira, gives Sarah a personalized hat and offers her some Honey Crackers, honey graham crackers that "everyone in Cuddle Bear Land eats". When Sarah eats a few of them, she notices something startling. Her hands have brown fur growing on them, and she has a bear nose. That's when she realizes that the attendants don't just dress up as Cuddle Bears, they are Cuddle Bears.

 

When Sarah flees from the cave, she manages to find the Rest Center, and is relieved to find that she is back to normal. When her family leaves Cuddle Bear Land, Sarah finds that Kira snuck a bag of Honey Crackers into her backpack and decides to have a doctor analyze them when they get back. The next night, Sarah finds Princess inside her room. She brags that she found the bag of crackers and ate the entire thing. Sarah realizes that she did get a souvenir Cuddle Bear after all. And she's so sweet Sarah's going to name her Princess.

 

[Audio_ELF]

I think this is one of these threads that has a life of it's own, simmers for a bit, then the heat cools and it dies down, but it's still simmering and 12 months later it awakens from it's long sleep (bit like a bear I guess).

 

Just look at the posting history...

OP: 10th July 2008; lots of posts until beginning August 2008.
A little rest ensues and then a new post at end of November - this time asking about TOSLink, a few more posts over a couple of days.
On comes middle of Feb 2009 (must have been a warm spell) and we introduce the Alethias Ridge Street USB into a $100k system!! A few days posting again.
Now the thread sleeps for another 12 months, a new post on 6th Feb 2010. This period lasted through to end of March.
Now the topic has become reanimated... with the usual accusations of deafness, stupididy, dogma and accusations.

 

At the end of the day, cables are a topic people will never agree over. Some hear a night and day difference, others minor changes, some feel cables are complete snake oil. The only real answer is to get a dealer (or online company) who will take sale or return or offer demo cables AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

 

Eloise

 

[Tog]

Hey Audiozorro - way to go with the cut and paste....

 

yours, hurt...no really, tog

 

[JDFlood]

There have been a lot of positive and useful comments in this string. Yours was not one of them. So, I guess you must be in the Toglodyte camp. JD

 

[4est]

"The best thing about this site, the one that distinguishes it from all others, is the kindness and courtesy shown by its members. No tirades, no abuse and no prejudice."

 

Really now, your thinly veiled insults have done nothing for this thread other than offer occasional amusement. At least your postings are short...

 

[Tog]

I'm lost in a forrest all alone

......its always the same

...I'm running towards nothing

 

Again and again and again ..

 

Robert Smith & pals

 

 

yours, still short, tog

 

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

@JD, thanks. I feel so much better now. I mean, it's not like I threw the first grenade or anything.

 

You're a troll.

 

Oh, wait, you wrote "TOGlodyte". Wait, that's almost witty! Ha ha?

 

Look we know, spell check's a little tough to use, so perhaps we'll forgive you that one. But next time, please, help us all out so we can be sure if we should laugh with you or just at you.

 

BTW, you're still a troll.

 

@4est, you vibrate wildly between seemingly earnest and an utter ass, so if you're truly the former, perhaps you excuse the difficulty I'm having being charitable with you. But in that spirit, let me take a bare moment and trace the blazingly obvious.

 

Lizard: (paraphrasing) "The SRT cable appears over priced! Is it worth it?"

 

Me: (paraphrasing) "Yes, it is."

 

Others: (paraphrasing) "All things expensive are better."

 

Me: (paraphrasing) "That's silly and off point; in the case of the products at hand, I've actually used them and found one to be superior. However, I've had the same superior result from a considerably less expensive hand-made product whose primary design feature is a lack of a power leg."

 

Now that I've clearly laid out the threads in a manner that even a troll like JD can follow, perhaps you can see why my comments were not only on fuck!ng point but that your comments were not and outright offensive to boot.

 

And in what possible universe is it my fault that the OP didn't use the search function, look all this up "in all those other threads" (paraphrasing), and proceed accordingly in order to spare you and your delicate troll sensibilities?

 

Your apology is accepted.

 

And in the future, if you want to say something, perhaps find the wisdom to put it forth in a way that is worthy of your simple namesake.

 

[jkeny]

One thing I'm confused about & maybe you can answer this - the Legato cable has the 5V wire removed, yes? BUT the Legato doesn't use the USB power anyway, does it, so it shouldn't be drawing any current through this cable so how can it be interfering with the signal carrying wires?

 

You know if more people tried this simple modification on a cheap USB cable & compared it to their Wunderbar cable it might be apparent if cables differed because of the power carrying part of the cable or the signal part of the cable or the interference between the two.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I have NO idea.

 

At the risk of mindlessly repeating myself, I mentioned "in all those other threads" that it was my theory that no power leg = no potential for interference. I am not a designer, however and I have freely admitted to no knowledge of the chipsets involved nor their operation.

 

Pat or Gordon could probably chime in here, assuming they haven't been driven off.

 

Only thing I can offer is "implementations of USB vary", and I do know that there are more than one set of chips on offer -- and at least one implementation requires power on those wires. For those implementations, your battery-powered solution is probably the cleanest approach.

 

That's all I got.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

OK guys, when the site starts to wind people up and produce headaches something has gone very wrong. Let's all take a deep breath and remember that our wonderful hobby is supposed to bring us enjoyment. Nobody is saving babies or killing puppies here.

 

[tarquineous]

It doesn't look like 4est got this thread back on track. Nor did he offer anything about which USB cable to use.

 

Instead, AudioZoro shows up with a Disneyland story, suitable for the Isolation Ward, or maybe the Rubber Room at Audio Asylum.

 

Tog sounds like a perfectly normal guy now.

 

I wonder what Liz thinks about all this !

 

We did cover ( from the ones who contributed ) a few cables who's owners liked better than generic cables. Like I said earlier, I have only tried the Cardas Clear USB cable, at $149.00, and like it better than generic. Nothing earth shattering or "jaw dropping", but good enough to not want to use the generic cable.

 

The Art Legato system cable was described, being innovative and advanced, which turned out to be as good as a few quite expensive USB cables.

 

Is that all ? I'm sure hundreds of specialty cables have been sold and used. They must not be aware of this thread.

 

At this point, I think Eloise's advice is productive to Liz and others... contact a dealer or two who will lend or take back the cables, if not satisfied.

 

And let us know if we're still here !

 

[I. G.]

I'm clubbing baby seals.

 

[4est]

You are right, I was an ass. My apologies then for being off base and jumping on you.

 

As for this thread's purpose. A simple Kimber offered a step up from all of the freebies I had. Later a Cryo parts help flesh out the base in my Soundlabs. It has been awhile and I am sketchy on it. Personally I cannot see spending more than a few hundred on a USB cable. I picked up a Wireworld, but have not tried it yet...

 

[audiozorro]

My advice not to feed the bears was in jest to lighten things up. On a more serious note, I doubt that I would ever spend more than $100 for a USB cable and a Belkin or Kimber cable for around $50 is more my style.

 

I am more likely to follow the advice from the DAC manufacturer if he has any recommendations for the best USB cable for his DAC. I put more value in the DAC than the USB cable and I am more than willing to use the same USB cable that the designer used in developing the DAC.

 

Personally I don’t believe in spending more for cables (power cord, interconnects, USB cable) than say half the price of the DAC. And of these IMO the power cord and interconnects are much more influential than the USB cable. So for a $2000 DAC my max budget on cables is likely $500 for the power cord, $400 for the interconnects, and $100 for the USB cable and I prefer to spend a lot less. Fortunately like many other components in audio, price is often an independent variable and a $100 cable can be sonically superior to another cable costing 5 to 10 times more.

 

When it comes to choosing cables, I believe time is more important than money. From my experience I believe that:

1. Many cables require significant break-in or burn-in time of 200 to 800 hours

2. 70% of the cables sound virtually identical to the nondescript cables often supplied with the audio equipment

3. That there is a synergy between the audio equipment and cable and thus the best cable for a particular gear does not automatically translate into the best cable for any gear.

 

Thus I find that time is a problem and most audiophiles are not willing to spend the time to find the best cable for their system or them. I know The Cable Company specializes in assisting audiophiles in such a search but it is painful and can take months to evaluate dozens of cables for each component. Fortunately with The Cable Company many of the cables are broken-in and don’t require long burn-in times. But still many of us rather be listening to music than spending too much time evaluating cables. And at some price point folks may be better off buying a better DAC than more expensive cables.

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

audiozorro ... I almost agree with you ... however I would slightly modify #2...

 

You wrote... "2. 70% of the cables sound virtually identical to the nondescript cables often supplied with the audio equipment.

 

I would say that 70% (maybe even 90%) of cables over £100 sound identical to the average (QED or basic Chord Company for example) £30 cable. Spending £30 or so is (IME) a big improvement over the "in-the-box" cables at least the ones I've been provided. After that, as you say, it can be more about system synergy than the "best" (most expensive) cables.

 

Eloise

 

[JDFlood]

sounds like a good strategy. I am always looking to optimize the overall system. That seems to be what you are doing. However, when you get to your ideal system... No major components to upgrade and you want to see if you can squeeze a little more performance out of what you have. That is where you might revisit some of the cables, and easily could find one that breaks the rules. This is how I ended up with a couple cables in the seemingly stupid 50% category. But worth every penny, since my system was already so good and sensitive to small changes JD

 

[barrows]

has been awhile, I will re-recommend the Wireworld Starlight, reasonable price, and includes separate (isolated) runs for data and power/ground (as shown in the illustration that appears in the ad at the bottom of this screen).

Have not tried it, but the Cardas Clear USB sounds like something worth checking out as well, another reasonably priced cable.

I have used more expensive models than the Starlight, and have not found significant improvement with them (different yes, but better? I am not sure). But the Starlight is clearly better than generic (belkin etc) and the Kimber.

 

[edorts]

I assume the standard issue USB cable should also be upgraded between a PC and an outboard drive like a Freeagent Go?

 

[tarquineous]

Thanks for clearing things up a bit 4est. I see you have a MAC Mini and a Weiss DAC. I am considering the purchase of Weiss' DAC 1 MKII. This can use a firewire cable to the MAC Mini. Looks like a relatively uncomplicated set up.

 

The DAC 1 MKII was also favored over the Zanden DAC in a recent review at 6moons.com. And the price is considerably less.

 

I currently have the Mini going to an Empirical Offramp I2S, and then to a Northstar DAC with I2S input. The I2S cable that I use is an Axis made by Locus Design. That one (only 8" in length) and the Cardas USB cable both made a small but worthwhile improvement. If I buy the Weiss, I would keep this existing set up, because it sounds so good, and reselling is such a loss and a hassle to me. But by keeping it I will be able to compare the two set-ups and try out the Wireworld Starlight and one of the Locus Design USB cables.

 

Looks like so far, according to the thread comments, that the Wireworld Starlight is a best buy for those wanting an upgrade without spending hundreds, or in some cases a couple of thousands of dollars on a USB link. It also has the power wire separated to some degree.

 

I'm also curious about what is a "Headless" MAC Mini. I've heard of tearing them open and stuffing a battery inside, but why not use an outside battery in place of the stock power supply ?

 

That was a little off USB cables, but modifications can help the USB output portion of a computer, so I think I'm somewhat covered here.

 

Tarq