Kii Three - my impressions and pro reviews

[MarkS]

Got it, thanks. I wonder how the sound of a streamer direct AES to the speakers versus the same streamer USB to the control then from control to the speakers differs.  In other words does the insertion of the control in the signal path impair or even change the sound.  

[Emlin]

3 minutes ago, MarkS said:

Got it, thanks. I wonder how the sound of a streamer direct AES to the speakers versus the same streamer USB to the control then from control to the speakers differs.  In other words does the insertion of the control in the signal path impair or even change the sound.  

The insertion of the Control will have no affect whatsoever on the sound.

[MarkS]

4 hours ago, Emlin said:

The insertion of the Control will have no affect whatsoever on the sound.

What is your basis for that conclusion?

[Emlin]

38 minutes ago, MarkS said:

What is your basis for that conclusion?

That fact that there is no basis for any other conclusion.

 

The Control takes the bits and sends them to the speakers perfectly. 

 

What is your basis for questioning that?

[Emlin]

34 minutes ago, Emlin said:

That fact that there is no basis for any other conclusion.

 

The Control takes the bits and sends them to the speakers perfectly. 

 

What is your basis for questioning that?

 

Perhaps you are confused by the fact that the Control can be used to change the volume, EQ, etc.

 

In fact the Control doesn't do any of these things within itself, all it does is send signals to the speakers so that they can do it themselves using their internal DSP.

 

[firedog]

5 hours ago, MarkS said:

What is your basis for that conclusion?

 

4 hours ago, Emlin said:

 

Perhaps you are confused by the fact that the Control can be used to change the volume, EQ, etc.

 

In fact the Control doesn't do any of these things within itself, all it does is send signals to the speakers so that they can do it themselves using their internal DSP.

 

Emlin is correct. The control is a digital input and control console. It takes digital inputs and can send the inputs plus commands (like EQ, boundary definitions) to the speakers. It doesn't change the stream itself. That's all inside the Kii's.

[MarkS]

Got it, thanks.

[Beren]

Hey Fellow Kii-philes!

 

I just discovered this thread and read it completely. Lots of interesting stuff and tips, really awesome!

 

My own Kii Threes arrived two years ago. For the price they offered a sound far beyond any other combo I auditioned at the time. After experimenting a lot with toe-in, boundary and the new filters that appeared with the new firmware last year my love for the Kiis only grew over time.

 

Experimenting was necessary because my listening situation is really difficult. The room is L-shaped, the left speaker is quite close to the front wall, the right speaker is further from another front wall but quite close to the side wall. And my listening position is just 30 cm from the back wall.

 

Funnily I ended up with very strong toe-in: 45° in fact. Has anyone else ever tried that?

 

My setup is quite minimalistic: Connected to my Kii Control via USB is just an Innuos Zenith Mk 3 streamer/server setup as Roon Core. It matches perfect with the Kiis, regardless if I listen to my stored music files or streaming from Tidal and Qobuz.

A BluRay-Transport (Sony UBP-X800) is connected via Coax to listen to my collection of concerts on BluRay or DVD-Audio.

All interconnect cables are AudioQuest Cinnamon, power cables are some 50€ Oehlbach cables.

[ntpaledo]

UPDATE: I just called Kii directly. They confirmed that there is a backlog and that the speakers are currently in production. They should be finished in a week, then go to production testing which lasts another week, then will ship them. They have to work under unprecedented circumstances and production time has gone back. They were estimating they would be out of it by now, but unfortunately, there is still backlog. I had a great conversation with them and I can empathise. Now I have to deal with the incompetent merchant who doesn't know how to follow up. Hopefully I will have the speakers in 2-3 weeks. Will post again then

 

Hi everyone, following up on this topic, mainly to vent. I've had an abysmal experience with the shop I bought the speakers from. On the 15th December 2020 I ordered the Kii 3 in glossy white along with a Digital RCA SPDIF cable. The store advised me that delivery time will be six weeks. That meant that by the end of January I would receive the speakers. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On January 15th I called again and the team informed me I would receive the Kiis mid February. Time passed by and I received no further communication from the store. On February 17th I called again and the team informed me they got official confirmation from Kii that the speakers will be part of shipment to my country last week of February or first week of March. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On March 2nd I called yet again and the team informed me the speakers will be here by the end of March. When I disputed the date and explained what had happened before, the employee informed me that they would reach out to Kii and they would contact me the next day (today, March 3rd). No one called me today, so I called back at 5pm, before the store closed. The employee told me that someone will call me back because they were currently with a customer. No one called me back. It has been 3 months of false promises, no follow up and terrible customer service. At this point, I am thinking of cancelling my order, because, mainly,  I have no trust that the store can withhold any customer agreement, technical support, after sales service or honour any warranty. The most insane part is that we are talking about a 10k Euros purchase. I have never received such abysmal experience as a consumer and this is the most expensive thing I've ever bought. It's definitely the store's fault for not understanding basic customer service, or even decency, principle, but I'm wondering how much of it is Kii's fault as well. Should I stay away from this manufacturer? Has anyone had any issues with their speakers, did they have to service them / replace them and did they receive bad service? Thank you all in advance for your replies.

[firedog]

13 minutes ago, ntpaledo said:

Hi everyone, following up on this topic, mainly to vent. I've had an abysmal experience with the shop I bought the speakers from. On the 15th December 2020 I ordered the Kii 3 in glossy white along with a Digital RCA SPDIF cable. The store advised me that delivery time will be six weeks. That meant that by the end of January I would receive the speakers. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On January 15th I called again and the team informed me I would receive the Kiis mid February. Time passed by and I received no further communication from the store. On February 17th I called again and the team informed me they got official confirmation from Kii that the speakers will be part of shipment to my country last week of February or first week of March. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On March 2nd I called yet again and the team informed me the speakers will be here by the end of March. When I disputed the date and explained what had happened before, the employee informed me that they would reach out to Kii and they would contact me the next day (today, March 3rd). No one called me today, so I called back at 5pm, before the store closed. The employee told me that someone will call me back because they were currently with a customer. No one called me back. It has been 3 months of false promises, no follow up and terrible customer service. At this point, I am thinking of cancelling my order, because, mainly,  I have no trust that the store can withhold any customer agreement, technical support, after sales service or honour any warranty. The most insane part is that we are talking about a 10k Euros purchase. I have never received such abysmal experience as a consumer and this is the most expensive thing I've ever bought. It's definitely the store's fault for not understanding basic customer service, or even decency, principle, but I'm wondering how much of it is Kii's fault as well. Should I stay away from this manufacturer? Has anyone had any issues with their speakers, did they have to service them / replace them and did they receive bad service? Thank you all in advance for your replies.

Your should send this directly to Kii and see what they say. You need to know if you are being lied to, and Kii needs to know how this dealer is operating.

I'd cancel if I was you. You can find another dealer who will give you better service.

[Rubysea]

Well, if you have been in direct contact with Kii you might contact them again and ask what the procedure (for your country/ region) is like in case your speakers need to be serviced. Will that be handeled by the dealer or with Kii directly (might be country/region dependent).

When I had an issue with mine (Europe/Germany) I was dealing with Kii directly which was very comfortable and fast and not at all with my dealer.

If you cancel your order now you might have to wait a long time again before you can get a new pair depending on how Kii is still dealing with Covid, current order backlog, company re-loaction to Germany in a few months, etc.

You might also check on this with Kii what that would mean for you and a your (new) order if you change your current dealer

[Blade1001]

1 hour ago, ntpaledo said:

UPDATE: I just called Kii directly. They confirmed that there is a backlog and that the speakers are currently in production. They should be finished in a week, then go to production testing which lasts another week, then will ship them. They have to work under unprecedented circumstances and production time has gone back. They were estimating they would be out of it by now, but unfortunately, there is still backlog. I had a great conversation with them and I can empathise. Now I have to deal with the incompetent merchant who doesn't know how to follow up. Hopefully I will have the speakers in 2-3 weeks. Will post again then

 

Hi everyone, following up on this topic, mainly to vent. I've had an abysmal experience with the shop I bought the speakers from. On the 15th December 2020 I ordered the Kii 3 in glossy white along with a Digital RCA SPDIF cable. The store advised me that delivery time will be six weeks. That meant that by the end of January I would receive the speakers. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On January 15th I called again and the team informed me I would receive the Kiis mid February. Time passed by and I received no further communication from the store. On February 17th I called again and the team informed me they got official confirmation from Kii that the speakers will be part of shipment to my country last week of February or first week of March. Time passed by and I received no communication from the store. On March 2nd I called yet again and the team informed me the speakers will be here by the end of March. When I disputed the date and explained what had happened before, the employee informed me that they would reach out to Kii and they would contact me the next day (today, March 3rd). No one called me today, so I called back at 5pm, before the store closed. The employee told me that someone will call me back because they were currently with a customer. No one called me back. It has been 3 months of false promises, no follow up and terrible customer service. At this point, I am thinking of cancelling my order, because, mainly,  I have no trust that the store can withhold any customer agreement, technical support, after sales service or honour any warranty. The most insane part is that we are talking about a 10k Euros purchase. I have never received such abysmal experience as a consumer and this is the most expensive thing I've ever bought. It's definitely the store's fault for not understanding basic customer service, or even decency, principle, but I'm wondering how much of it is Kii's fault as well. Should I stay away from this manufacturer? Has anyone had any issues with their speakers, did they have to service them / replace them and did they receive bad service? Thank you all in advance for your replies.

 

You can't really blame Kii Audio for bad dealer customer service, but if you are based in Singapore, why did you not order the speakers in Singapore - they have a local distributor?

[ntpaledo]

Unfortunately, I ordered them from their official distributor in Singapore... There is no one else to go to

[Blade1001]

26 minutes ago, ntpaledo said:

Unfortunately, I ordered them from their official distributor in Singapore... There is no one else to go to

 

Oh, that's even worse then, A distributor should be actively promoting Kii's products - sorry when you said they were 10k Euros, I assumed you were buying them from Europe.

 

 

[ntpaledo]

Spoke to the distributor. They apologised for the lack of follow up. Manager committed to provide me personal updates. Let's see. Looking forward to receiving the speakers

[Rubysea]

New Kii Control Firmare 2.5 just seems to have been released. As per here:

https://kiiaudio.helpdocsonline.com/kiicontrolv2

These are the new features:

• New simple menu structure
• Added BXT Menu
• Advanced Filters in Pro Menu
• Improved Bluetooth audio connectivity
• Clipping indicator for Analog Input

All other firmeware components do not seem to have been changed

[H665]

23 hours ago, Rubysea said:

New Kii Control Firmare 2.5 just seems to have been released.

I haven’t really noticed any HMI improvements. And the analogue clipping warning was there already i think. At least it kicked in when I was fiddling with the phono gain of my new amp.

 

Now wouldn’t it be great if you could change Kii settings using a software app where the settings are visualized and that you can upload into the control. Kind of like what Linn *cough,cough* uses for their Space optimisation. Makes for a much more user friendly experience imo.

[Beren]

The update description seems to be the same as the description for 2.4, new firmware runs fine but I could not detect any changes yet.

 

Yeah, a software app would be great. Just something to upload your EQ-changes from REW for example instead of fiddling around with the pro filters in the Control.

[Blade1001]

59 minutes ago, H665 said:

I haven’t really noticed any HMI improvements. And the analogue clipping warning was there already i think. At least it kicked in when I was fiddling with the phono gain of my new amp.

 

Now wouldn’t it be great if you could change Kii settings using a software app where the settings are visualized and that you can upload into the control. Kind of like what Linn *cough,cough* uses for their Space optimisation. Makes for a much more user friendly experience imo.

Yep agreed - buying the Control shouldn’t be a requirement to access the internal features.

[Rubysea]

An app for storing and changing the Control settings could probably be an enhanced version of the update tool. But you still would need the Kii Control for this, because the Kii / Kii Control does not offer any wireless connection and besides the Kii control you cannot directly connect to a Kii speaker with a computer (LAN).
I assume the upcoming streamer will feature Kii settings management, too. But it remains to be seen whether the settings can also be changed via a remote UI conection then or if this only will hold true for the streamer audio UI (which most likely will not be a proprietary Kii implementation)

[baconbrain]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:58 AM, Beren said:

 

Funnily I ended up with very strong toe-in: 45° in fact. Has anyone else ever tried that?

 

 

Nice looking setup! In regards to toe-in, each listening area is different, so imo, there is no golden rule. Enjoying what YOU are hearing, is the most important reference point.

[Beren]

2 hours ago, baconbrain said:

 

Nice looking setup! In regards to toe-in, each listening area is different, so imo, there is no golden rule. Enjoying what YOU are hearing, is the most important reference point.

Thanks!

 

Of course there is not one rule for everybody. Since that side wall on the right causes early reflections in my setup strong toe in helps to a degree - in my case.

 

In fact I followed a tip of Bruno Putzeys himself on a German forum where he recommended to try strong toe-in and wondered why only few ever try that. That's why I asked if someone else has experimented with that.

[firedog]

On 3/20/2021 at 1:56 PM, Rubysea said:

I assume the upcoming streamer will feature Kii settings management, too. But it remains to be seen whether the settings can also be changed via a remote UI conection then or if this only will hold true for the streamer audio UI (which most likely will not be a proprietary Kii implementation)

I'm starting to think the Kii network device is mythological/vaporware.

[GregWormald]

18 hours ago, Beren said:

In fact I followed a tip of Bruno Putzeys himself on a German forum where he recommended to try strong toe-in and wondered why only few ever try that. That's why I asked if someone else has experimented with that.

Ken Ishiwata, the legendary Marantz designer, etc. often recommended that the speaker axes should cross in front of the listener. He set up Marantz listening rooms like this at audio shows.

It certainly worked well for my last set of speakers—the upgrade set hasn't arrived yet.

[PCmusic]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:58 PM, Beren said:

After experimenting a lot with toe-in, boundary and the new filters that appeared with the new firmware last year my love for the Kiis only grew over time.

 

Experimenting was necessary because my listening situation is really difficult. The room is L-shaped, the left speaker is quite close to the front wall, the right speaker is further from another front wall but quite close to the side wall. And my listening position is just 30 cm from the back wall.

 

Funnily I ended up with very strong toe-in: 45° in fact. Has anyone else ever tried that?

 

 

 

 

Good decision. This is exactly what I did for my 8c as well. I wrote the rationale in my subjective review in the speaker forum here. I totally understand why you did that. It isn't good for speakers with non-uniform directivity and many feel bad looking (read from forums). I agree I need time to accept, but now it's very ok to me.