Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[Blake]

7 minutes ago, jtk said:

My indiegogo account has been deleted a few years ago, and there was some update I did when LHL switched to a new system, but I think that was all years ago. I'm going to see what info I can find about my order.

 

Contact IGG, I am sure they can retrieve your contribution info.

 

 

[Blake]

1. Tube Pre and Power Amp: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pulse-analog-audio-components#/
2. Portable Player: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player
3. Music Server: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-source-the-ultimate-hd-music-server#/
4. DAC: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-pulse-dac-high-rez-desktop-dac-system#/
5. DAC (run 2): https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-pulse-high-res-audio-for-your-desktop--2#/
6. Portable Player (run 2): https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-make-your-smartphone-sound-better#/
7. Vi DAC: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vi-dac-ultra-high-end-dac-with-unique-design#/

[Blake]

^^ I cut and pasted from purr1n's post on SBAF.

 

Is that a complete list of Larry's crowdfunding projects?  Did he have any campaigns on Kickstarter?

 

[Blake]

Update:  A member on the SBAF forum drove by the Light Harmonic offices in California and posted a pic.  Apparently the office is now occupied by a different company.   So it looks like Larry is gone.  Of course he might have moved to a different office space or a home office if Larry still lives in California. 

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lh-labs-never-received-your-crowd-funded-product.7452/page-2#post-245399

 

Jarek, is Larry still living in the USA?

 

 

[Blake]

1 hour ago, Blake said:

Update:  A member on the SBAF forum drove by the Light Harmonic offices in California and posted a pic.  Apparently the office is now occupied by a different company.   So it looks like Larry is gone.  Of course he might have moved to a different office space or a home office if Larry still lives in California. 

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lh-labs-never-received-your-crowd-funded-product.7452/page-2#post-245399

 

Jarek, is Larry still living in the USA?

 

 

 

False alarm.  As noted by Jarek, the SBAF member went to the old offices.  

[Blake]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

Has every single person on this thread complaining about interviews or Jarek also taken the time to (1) post his/her information to the spreadsheet, and (2) spread the word in other venues?  I don't know how productive the latter will ultimately be, but surely at least as much as, and perhaps more so than, the years(!) of complaints have proved to be.

 

Yes, please, we need to spread the word on other audio forums.  I started a thread on SBAF, and I also started one on the What's Best Forum:

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lh-labs-never-received-your-crowd-funded-product.27473/

 

I know we have members that participate in other audio sites.  So far, we have this thread, SBAF and What's Best.  Jud checked with HeadFi but they don't want a thread on this topic (although there is discussion on the HeadFi thread about the Wave, so word is out).

 

 Do we have any volunteers for other sites?  

 

If you start a thread on another forum, please post here and let us know.  

 

P.S. Thanks to all who have posted to the spreadsheet, we really have some momentum now!

 

 

 

[Blake]

On 2/15/2019 at 8:00 PM, LHCommSquad said:

Post your questions you'd like to see answered in a Q&A session. Keep in mind: 

 

Any questions you submit may or may not be edited (or included) for brevity, clarity, and for civility.  

 

So Jarek, when is this "Q & A" session going to happen?  You ask people to submit questions, they submit questions and then, nothing......

 

  

[Blake]

I have contacted IGG and asked them for assistance in providing contribution data for the various LH Labs IGG campaigns.  I would strongly encourage others to do so as well.  The more people contacting them, the better chances we have.  We can still proceed without IGG's data, but getting it will further help our cause.

 

When you contact them, I think it is helpful to convey that the multiple LH Labs IGG debacles have severely damaged IGG's reputation and caused potential backers of other audio projects to sit on the sidelines.

 

Providing the data and helping us go after those who use IGG to steal money will help to restore IGG's reputation.  Alternatively, if IGG just sticks their head in the sand, it shows IGG does not care about enforcing their terms of service.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

On 3/8/2019 at 5:02 PM, gkhowell said:

The only reason that Q&A request thing was posted is to satisfy the Indiegogo terms of agreement. A campaign owner has to update their campaign status every month. They were in violation of that for a couple months. I would not expect any replies to the Q&As.

 

I sincerely doubt Larry or Jarek have ever bothered to read the IGG terms of service.  Also, I don't think anyone reading this thread ever really expected anything to come of the Q&A proposal.  It was the equivalent of shuffling papers on your desk at work to give the impression you are making progress.

 

 

[Blake]

47 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Just had another look at the online  State AG complaint submission form at  https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company

 

The instructions require claimants to provide this information in support of a filed complaint:

 

Please include the following information in the text of your message if relevant:

 

A.  If you have a foreign (non-US) address.

 

B.  If you are shareholder, member, or limited partner.

 

C.  Name of the product or service involved.

 

D.  The dollar amount in dispute.

 

E.  The date of the transaction.

 

F.  Was the product or service advertised? If so, indicate where and on what date?

 

G.  Was a contract signed?

 

H.  Identify your attempts to resolve the issue(s) with the company, corporation, or organization.

 

I.  Have you contacted another agency for assistance? If so, what agency?

 

J.  Have you contacted an attorney? If so, what is the attorney's name, address, and phone number?

 

K.  Is court action pending?

 

L.  Have you lost a lawsuit in this matter?

 

M.  Briefly describe the resolution you are seeking

 

Mike,

 

Thanks, this is very helpful information.  I suppose we need to update the spreadsheet to incorporate the additional required info.  Markus, will this be problematic for you to include this additional detail?

 

To assist others/get consensus on the responses to the additional info, looking at each requirement above:

 

A.  Self-explanatory

B.  No.

C.  Self-explanatory

D.  Self-explanatory (visit your IGG account Contributions page for detail)

E.  Self-explanatory (visit your IGG account Contributions page for detail)

F.  Self-explanatory, but I assume the answer will be "No" for everyone

G. Contract created via the Indigogo website, Terms of Service

H. Self-explanatory and may differ from person to person, but I think generally we reference constant attempts via the IGG website "Comments" section, via online audio fora (this site and list any others), Facebook, and also for some of us, via the LH Labs forums (now closed).

I.  No

J. No, cost prohibitive given the amount of the claim (those living outside of California or the USA should also note using California's small claims court is not practical due to travel and costs associated therewith.

K. No

L. No

M. A refund

 

If anyone has other thoughts, please post in this thread.

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

11 hours ago, Cecil said:

 

It's hard to fathom why, when it became obvious to them that they didn't have sufficient funding to complete the projects (and it appears to have become obvious quite early on), they didn't just apologise, explain the problem, then refund what funds were still remaining. And it appears this sort of thing can be facilitated through Indiegogo.

 

 

Yep.  Pretty basic stuff- what your mom and dad taught you when you were young.  You could explain this situation to any 5 year old and they would all get the answer right.  Larry tried, he failed and he should now return what money is left. 

 

Have integrity, be fair, be honest.  I'm sure Larry's parents taught him these things and he followed these principles earlier in his life, but somehow he lost his way and his morals.  

[Blake]

15 hours ago, Cecil said:

 

It's hard to fathom why, when it became obvious to them that they didn't have sufficient funding to complete the projects (and it appears to have become obvious quite early on),

 

 

One point of correction- LH Labs (Larry) received way more funding than he needed to produce the various products.  They blew the doors off of the contribution threshold goals.  It definitely is not a case of them not collecting sufficient funding.  The crime here is Larry just took all the excess money, spent it on who knows what and pocketed the rest. 

 

 Through Larry's mouthpiece LHCommSquad, Larry tries to give the impression that he is still working to fulfill orders, but this is a lie.  Larry's wishful thinking does not constitute actual work and progress.  His wishful thinking is just a way to rationalize his criminal behavior.  

[Blake]

30 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

 

We literally just put out 2 updates on 4/18 and 4/26 showing actual work and progress. 

 

Where did you post these updates?  Progress on what products?

 

Notwithstanding your contractual obligations at IGG, you haven't posted an update for the Vi Dac since SEPTEMBER 5, 2018.

[Blake]

10 minutes ago, LHCommSquad said:

These are 3 updates on the Wave that the community has been discussing over the past week. They were posted over at IGG and people have been commenting on them there and around the various internet forums.

 

 

And what about the Vi DAC?  

 

 

[Blake]

Larry, there is still time for you to stop the filing of our claim by doing what is moral and right and, by the way, required under the IGG terms of service- provide refunds.  It is not your money.  You cannot steal without consequences.

 

 

 

 

[Blake]

Oh, what awesome news!  The new case even has Light Harmonic branding, because, well, LH Labs no longer exists.

 

But wait......

 

Light Harmonic, Inc. no longer exists, as all the shareholders voted to dissolve that entity in January of 2018. 

 

But don't worry Larry, we still have you squarely in our sights.

 

 

 

 

LH Dissolution.pdf

[Blake]

17 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Ahem, this is notice of the dissolution of "Harmonic Light Inc".  No commas.  Unless I'm missing something, this is irrelevant to this thread.

 

You are right.  I was searching the status of Larry's entities this morning in connection with our case and apparently didn't consume enough coffee and/or was reading too quickly. 

 

I can't edit now.

 

 

[Blake]

1 hour ago, Blake said:

Oh, what awesome news!  The new case even has Light Harmonic branding, because, well, LH Labs no longer exists.

 

But wait......

 

Light Harmonic, Inc. no longer exists, as all the shareholders voted to dissolve that entity in January of 2018. 

 

But don't worry Larry, we still have you squarely in our sights.

 

 

 

 

LH Dissolution.pdf 49.72 kB · 11 downloads

 

Ignore this, different company.  

[Blake]

On 11/24/2019 at 11:30 AM, Jud said:

And we, Mike, are greatly in your debt. (Meaning next time you’re out this way, I’m buying. 🙂 )

 

Absolutely, Mike has been incredibly helpful in this endeavor.  Mike, if you are out in Salt Lake City, your ski pass is on me!** 

 

**Blackout dates and other restrictions apply, this offer is non-transferable, you understand and agree that skiing and snowboarding are hazardous activities and involve the risk of physical injury or death.  You understand and agree that these risks may include by way of example, but without limitation, high elevation, falling trees, unmarked obstacles, deep snow conditions, slides and avalanches, rugged mountain terrain, acts of others, and collisions with snow-grooming and snowmaking equipment. 

[Blake]

On 11/24/2019 at 11:58 AM, Mike Rubin said:

Too late for me to edit my post above Jud’s, but the shout-out to “Mattias" should be to Markus, who really is responsible for starting this whole project.  I blame bad iPad autocompletion and senile proofreading.  Thanks again, Markus. 

 

Yes indeed, thanks Markus!

[Blake]

46 minutes ago, jsiegel said:

Don't Forget Gavin !!!!!!

 

Who could forget Gavin?  

 

In case you miss him- HEY FOLKS, IT'S LENDI!!  Please send all your audio gear to him and he will take care of the rest.  What could go wrong?

 

 

[Blake]

As a refresher for those joining our complaint, you can easily find the details concerning your Indiegogo campaign contributions by logging on to your Indiegogo account. 

 

After logging in to your account, in the upper right-hand corner you will see your account name and when you click on it you will see a pull-down menu with "My Campaigns" and "My Contributions" options. You can then see the amounts and dates of your LH Labs product contributions.

 

 Use this information to fill in the details where noted for our Complaint.

 

 

[Blake]

2 hours ago, vmartell22 said:

Hate to see @bernardperu and others going through this, specially since the amounts are significant. Good luck with that. Sorry to ask, but, I remember hearing that  Kickstarter and IndieGogo are not exactly.. hmm not sure how to put it...  your are not buying anything... is kind of like an investment... so I have heard that people  that get stuck in failed campaigns,  are not owed anything and should treat it like investment losses - is that accurate? I hope is not the case, but if its, at least from now on, I won't even consider putting money in those kind of things - I actually considered and almost put money on LH products - glad I did not.

 

v

 

IGG imposes terms of service on the Campaign Owner (in this case LH Labs).  LH Labs breached pretty much every term of service.  LH Labs and Larry Ho used IGG as a vehicle to steal funds from contributors:

 

As a Campaign Owner, when you create a Campaign on the Site and ask for Contributions, you understand that you are entering into separate legal agreements with both Indiegogo and with Contributors, and the following rules apply (in addition to the all other Terms and Additional Policies).

1. • Campaign Owner Obligations

   Please remember that as a Campaign Owner, you are solely responsible for fulfilling the obligations of your Campaign and delivering Perks. If you are unable to perform on this, or any of your other legal obligations, you may be subject to legal action by Contributors.

   1. Make good faith efforts to fulfill the Perks associated with a Campaign in the timeframe that is communicated to Contributors.
   2. Immediately notify Contributors if there are obstacles or delays.
   3. Be responsive. Respond promptly and truthfully to all questions posed by Contributors.
   4. Updates. Provide substantive and quality updates at least once a month to Contributors.
   5. If you have received the Contributions from your Campaign, issue refunds to Contributors if you cannot deliver Perks.
   6. Comply with Laws. Comply with all applicable laws and regulations in the use of Contributions and delivery of Perks.
   7. Respect Privacy. When you use the Services by creating a Campaign, you may receive information about other Users, including personally identifiable information (“PII”), such as names, e-mail addresses, and physical addresses. This information is provided to you purely for the purpose of fulfilling the Perks for the applicable Campaign and other Services, and may not be used for other purposes, including cross-promotional marketing, without separate, verifiable consent from the User. You will maintain, and be required to produce if requested, records of all such verifiable consent.
      1. Comply with EEA Data Controller Obligations. As a Campaign Owner, you (and Indiegogo) will independently fulfill all duties required of data controllers under applicable EEA data protection law (such law shall include, but not be limited to, the EU General Data Protection Regulation (Regulation (EU) 2016/679) (“GDPR”); (iii) the EU e-Privacy Directive (Directive 2002/58/EC), including subsequent variations, such as the Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council concerning the respect for private life and the protection of personal data in electronic communications and repealing Directive 2002/58/EC (“ePrivacy Regulation”), if enacted).
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         1. Determining and qualifying the necessary legal basis or bases for your collection or processing of personal information;
         2. Managing and reporting security incidents;
         3. Transfers;
         4. Entering into contracts only with data processors that provide adequate protections for personal data and including appropriate contractual language;
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         7. Implementing and maintaining all measures required pursuant to Article 32 of the GDPR.
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   8. Service Fees. Campaign Owners are charged a Service Fee as a portion of the Contributions they raise (the "Service Fees"). The Service Fees are effective on the date that the Service Fees are posted, and may be updated from time to time. Service Fees will be charged at the then-current rate.
   9. Taxes. Taxing authorities may classify Contributions as taxable income to the Campaign Owner and any beneficiary who will receive funds directly from the applicable Campaign. Indiegogo may ask for the tax identification number (TIN) of Campaign Owners and any beneficiaries so that We may report taxable income to the relevant taxing authorities. Indiegogo will provide Campaign Owners with a tax document if required by the relevant taxing authorities. Indiegogo is unable to provide any User or third party with tax advice and suggests that such Users or third parties consult with tax advisors of their choice.
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[Blake]

[Blake]

45 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I'm sorry, while like the rest of you I have much distain for LH Labs and how they have fleeced so many and not delivered on promises, I think it is inappropriate to post photographs of people. Just seems like a line we need not cross. I can not think of a reason to go down to that level. Larry Ho can live with his own shame--and we can shame his company--without photos.

Just my $0.02

 

Seriously?  The guy steals millions with no shame and you are upset about posting his pic?!  

 

He shouldn't get to hide behind some corporate veil.  LH Labs is Larry Ho.  Larry took our money.  Steal money and there are consequences.