HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded

[k6davis]

Miska, 

 

Would it be possible to add Restart & Shutdown commands to the web interface for HQP OS?

[acatala]

4 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

Thank you @acatala, HQPE runs just fine but does not appear as an output to Audirvana. Both machines are wired to the same switch and the machines to communicate fine since I can launch HQPE on a machine from the other : I don't dig what's not working. I'm gonna check Firewall and stuff like that...

 

Did you install Rygel with HQPlayer Embedded?

[robi20064]

1 hour ago, k6davis said:

Miska, 

 

Would it be possible to add Restart & Shutdown commands to the web interface for HQP OS?

+1

[Miska]

3 hours ago, k6davis said:

Would it be possible to add Restart & Shutdown commands to the web interface for HQP OS?

 

Can you describe why? Power button initiates shutdown, and restart can be be done by shutting down first using power button (takes about two seconds) and then starting again (takes less than 10 seconds).

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, acatala said:

Did you install Rygel with HQPlayer Embedded?

 

HQPlayer package pulls it in as a dependency and HQPlayer Embedded cannot be started if it doesn't exist, so it is not a likely problem.

 

Constraints for UPnP are similar to NAA. So multicast needs to be functional in the network, so very likely things like multi-homed setup would cause problems in this respect (multicast routing).

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

HQPlayer package pulls it in as a dependency and HQPlayer Embedded cannot be started if it doesn't exist, so it is not a likely problem.

 

Constraints for UPnP are similar to NAA. So multicast needs to be functional in the network, so very likely things like multi-homed setup would cause problems in this respect (multicast routing).

 

very enlightening ! so much esoteric complexity could only be solved by utmost simplicity and immediately after reading your post I connected the E running machine to my Airport TC rather than to my ISP's bbox.

et voilà ! automagically Embedded was offered as output 

 

HOWEVER I'm facing @Superdad's issue : works just fine with PCM files (output SDM as well as PCM) but DSD files remain mute ; Audirvana's progression bar is busy just as if it was going to play but it does not go through...

[Miska]

37 minutes ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

HOWEVER I'm facing @Superdad's issue : works just fine with PCM files (output SDM as well as PCM) but DSD files remain mute ; Audirvana's progression bar is busy just as if it was going to play but it does not go through...

 

I'll try to check this out next week if I can see what is going wrong with DSD files. So far I think I've only tested DSD files from MinimServer with BubbleUPnP Android-app as control point.

 

PCM files certainly work fine from A.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

I'll try to check this out next week if I can see what is going wrong with DSD files. So far I think I've only tested DSD files from MinimServer with BubbleUPnP Android-app as control point.

 

PCM files certainly work fine from A.

yes they do ; thank you

[robi20064]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Can you describe why? Power button initiates shutdown, and restart can be be done by shutting down first using power button (takes about two seconds) and then starting again (takes less than 10 seconds).

 

Let me try to address that. Sometimes the PC running HQPe is far away (in the basement etc) and pushing the physical button would take addition steps while clicking on a shutdown button on the web interface could be done from anywhere. 

[k6davis]

1 hour ago, robi20064 said:

Let me try to address that. Sometimes the PC running HQPe is far away (in the basement etc) and pushing the physical button would take addition steps while clicking on a shutdown button on the web interface could be done from anywhere. 

 

In my case, I built my server from parts and never got around to getting a case for it. Hence it has no power button. Admittedly, that's an extremely rare circumstance. Robi20064's reason is much better.

 

But beyond that, most of us aren't sitting next to our HQP server. It would usually be in a rack or in another room. If adding restart/shutdown commands to the OS would be easy, it would be appreciated.

[Miska]

18 hours ago, robi20064 said:

Let me try to address that. Sometimes the PC running HQPe is far away (in the basement etc) and pushing the physical button would take addition steps while clicking on a shutdown button on the web interface could be done from anywhere. 

 

How do you get it back on? It feels strange to have a one-way option...

 

17 hours ago, k6davis said:

In my case, I built my server from parts and never got around to getting a case for it. Hence it has no power button.

 

You only need two wires and a button, you don't even need a case to have it. It is very simple.

 

 

Alternatively one could have a remote controlled relay connected to the motherboard power button pins.

 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

On 6/20/2019 at 11:11 PM, Miska said:

 

I'll try to check this out next week if I can see what is going wrong with DSD files. So far I think I've only tested DSD files from MinimServer with BubbleUPnP Android-app as control point.

 

PCM files certainly work fine from A.

This might be trickier : Audirvana seems to launch OK my PCM MCH rips but they do play with, audibly, missing parts : guess only FL & FR go through ; so it sounds anyway.

 

Will have the MB Air only on short loan and circumstances have not been to comparisons, not even to listening to music loud long enough,  but it felt like comforting the impression I had when I run your NAA image on my MBP15 : fabulous!

[robi20064]

15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

How do you get it back on? It feels strange to have a one-way option...

 

 

You only need two wires and a button, you don't even need a case to have it. It is very simple.

 

 

Alternatively one could have a remote controlled relay connected to the motherboard power button pins.

 

 

As for myself, I use to start/turn on all my equipment when my day starts. Pretty much only servers are kept on 24/7. The ability to turn HQPe off from the web interface would provide some additional convenience. Is this functionality requiring a lot of code/testing or you just don't see the need for it?

 

Talking about improvements, a bit less "spartanian" looking web UI would be very welcome as well. Not thinking of anything too fancy, but something similar to Sonicorbiter OS. 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, robi20064 said:

As for myself, I use to start/turn on all my equipment when my day starts. Pretty much only servers are kept on 24/7. The ability to turn HQPe off from the web interface would provide some additional convenience. Is this functionality requiring a lot of code/testing or you just don't see the need for it?

 

I prefer to keep OS management separate from the player application. And I also prefer functionality to be logical, and one way functionality like shutdown without power up is sort of half of the thing. Since power button does both, I find it more logical to use that instead.

 

Bootable HQPlayer OS image relies on power button to operate like any other hifi equipment like amplifier or such.

 

If you run on any full blown distro like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora, then the OS already provides such functionality and HQPlayer would just overlap. And in these cases HQPlayer anyway doesn't have privileges to initiate shutdown.

 

9 hours ago, robi20064 said:

Talking about improvements, a bit less "spartanian" looking web UI would be very welcome as well. Not thinking of anything too fancy, but something similar to Sonicorbiter OS. 

 

I have to admit I fail to see how sonicOrbiter is less "spartanian". But the layout for HQPlayer web interface is designed such that it scales properly from mobile phone browser to full desktop browser. You can always adjust the look and feel by modifying the CSS if you like to.

 

[k6davis]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

Bootable HQPlayer OS image relies on power button to operate like any other hifi equipment like amplifier or such.

 

Bootable HQPlayer OS image is not like other hifi equipment like an amplifier. It's an OS. I've never seen an OS that didn't have shutdown and restart commands. Plus my audio gear has remote control, with a power button. It's across the room and I never need to touch it.

 

9 hours ago, Miska said:

I also prefer functionality to be logical, and one way functionality like shutdown without power up is sort of half of the thing. Since power button does both, I find it more logical to use that instead.

 

Not having these commands is also sort of half of the thing. HQPlayer OS has a completely remote controlled interface, except that if something's not working, I have to put the keyboard down and walk across the room and open the audio rack to press a button, wait for it to shut down, then press the button again to restart it. 

 

9 hours ago, Miska said:

If you run on any full blown distro like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora, then the OS already provides such functionality and HQPlayer would just overlap. And in these cases HQPlayer anyway doesn't have privileges to initiate shutdown.

 

I'm not suggesting that the HQPlayer application have shutdown and restart commands, because it's not an OS.

 

I get what you're saying about shutdown without power up. The restart command is what I would use more often as I just leave the HQPlayer server running all the time. It's hardly the end of the world not having shutdown and restart commands, but if it's easy to add them, I would be grateful to have them.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, k6davis said:

Bootable HQPlayer OS image is not like other hifi equipment like an amplifier. It's an OS. I've never seen an OS that didn't have shutdown and restart commands.

 

It is intended to be firmware for streamer-like devices. It is not intended to be operated like an OS, but instead like firmware. Like if you buy for example Bluesound Node 2, which also runs Linux, or Oppo SACD player.

 

One way I have it is computer in Streacom FC10 Alpha case. When I want to start listening I push power button and HQPlayer OS comes up. When I'm done, I press power button again and the HQPlayer OS shuts down. That's all, I don't need to deal with any commands or anything. It is just a box that comes up and goes down with push of a button. It works just like power amp or any other piece of hifi equipment.

 

4 hours ago, k6davis said:

Plus my audio gear has remote control, with a power button. It's across the room and I never need to touch it.

 

You can naturally build HQPlayer computer to work exactly like that, with a remote control.

 

4 hours ago, k6davis said:

I'm not suggesting that the HQPlayer application have shutdown and restart commands, because it's not an OS.

 

There's really nothing much else running there. I'm trying to keep the OS as slim as possible. There's no ssh server, no web server or anything. Couple of system processes plus hqplayerd and networkaudiod. So it's much smaller than OS for things like Rendus or SMS.

 

[asdf1000]

Hi @Miska , i know the USB bootable of HQPe now has NAA built-in but if I want to install only NAA on Debian Stretch Server amd64 , then is NAA also built into Embedded install on Linux:

 

hqplayerd_4.10.2-29_amd64.deb

 

?

 

Or better to install:

 

networkaudiod_3.5.6-41_amd64.deb

 

?

[Miska]

53 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Hi @Miska , i know the USB bootable of HQPe now has NAA built-in but if I want to install only NAA on Debian Stretch Server amd64 , then is NAA also built into Embedded install on Linux:

 

hqplayerd_4.10.2-29_amd64.deb

 

?

 

Or better to install:

 

networkaudiod_3.5.6-41_amd64.deb

 

?

 

No, it is that separate package. HQPlayer OS just has both installed.

 

[asdf1000]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

No, it is that separate package. HQPlayer OS just has both installed.

 

 

Noted, thanks.

[asdf1000]

Hi @Miska

 

I know HQPe functions as a UPnP renderer already (I’ve been using it for a while).

 

But is it possible for you to make it a UPnP server too, to play to UPnP renderers?

 

For example, playing direct to Devialet Phantom’s UPnP input, doing digital room EQ convolution at 192kHz to the Phantom UPnP input.

 

Otherwise would need to use the TOSlink input (with an NAA TOSlink source) which is limited to 96kHz on the Phantom Gold.

 

I know NAA is the ideal protocol but HQPe playing to UPnP might add some flexibility.

[Miska]

3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

But is it possible for you to make it a UPnP server too, to play to UPnP renderers?

 

You can use Rygel as UPnP server if you like, you don't need HQPlayer for that.

 

3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

For example, playing direct to Devialet Phantom’s UPnP input, doing digital room EQ convolution at 192kHz to the Phantom UPnP input.

 

Otherwise would need to use the TOSlink input (with an NAA TOSlink source) which is limited to 96kHz on the Phantom Gold.

 

I know NAA is the ideal protocol but HQPe playing to UPnP might add some flexibility.

 

UPnP does not fulfill the requirements HQPlayer has for output. Devialet should add support for NAA instead.

 

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

You can use Rygel as UPnP server if you like, you don't need HQPlayer for that.

 

But as mentioned, can’t use HQP as single DSP engine (upsampling and DRC convolution at 192kHz) to UPnP endpoint (for Phantom speakers for example).

 

How would Rygel allow this ?

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

But as mentioned, can’t use HQP as single DSP engine (upsampling and DRC convolution at 192kHz) to UPnP endpoint (for Phantom speakers for example).

 

How would Rygel allow this ?

 

It doesn't, but as I mentioned, UPnP is not functionally fit for HQPlayer output... NAA protocol was created for a purpose. Likely Roon had similar reasons for creating RAAT/RoonBridge instead of using UPnP.

 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

but as I mentioned, UPnP is not functionally fit for HQPlayer output... NAA protocol was created for a purpose.

 

Yes this part is understood. I mentioned in my first post that NAA is obviously ideal.

 

I thought maybe there was an 'experimental' workaround that could be tried.

 

I can put in a feature request to Devialet but I fear the odds will be small. But I will still ask. You have to be in it to win it.

 

[Miska]

27 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

I thought maybe there was an 'experimental' workaround that could be tried.

 

I can put in a feature request to Devialet but I fear the odds will be small. But I will still ask. You have to be in it to win it.

 

Making such would just kill all the chances of getting proper NAA support anywhere and undermine most of the work.

 

I would just instead recommend to choose hardware that supports NAA out of the box, such as T+A, totaldac, etc.