Server build based on Kaby Lake for HQPlayer and possibly Roon

[shadowlight]

@Mirekti,

 

Sorry, if I missed this earlier but if your goal is to go down the NAA path, why not think about picking up Raspberry Pi 3 or Cubox and the NAA image that Miska provides. My understanding is NAA image has support for native DSD support for XMOS based USB and support 2x DSD for Amanero cards. I am not sure which DAC you are planning to use but something to think about. The Cubox is a better choice compared to RPi but it is more expensive also.

[EdmontonCanuck]

Wait a few weeks. AMD Ryzen chips will be out soon and could be ideal for HQP. The lineup includes a 8c/16t chip with a 65w TDP. That could be run fanless, and if leaked benchmarks are anywhere close to true, would be plenty powerful to do any HQP upsampling sans GPU (if performance matches leaked tests, the 65 TDP Ryzen 1700 will be considerably more capable than the Intel 7700k when it comes to HQP, and the 7700k is plenty fast enough already).

 

In regards to the GPU, the ones you listed are too hot to passively cool, but even if a passive 1050 is released (I expect there will be), you won't be able to use a passively cooled one. Your case is the heatsink for your CPU, the graphics card will dump heat into the case. You'd need a blower type cooler that exhausts the heat. You might be fine with that though, because HQP doesn't tax the GPU that much, so it wouldn't have to spin up very much.

 

But, as I said, I'd wait and see how Ryzen pans out, GPU may be unnecessary.

 

I'm quite excited about that Ryzen 65w TDP 8- core CPU. Do you know what it might take to swap out a Supermicro mobo/Xeon CAPS V4 Pipeline build with a comparable mobo/Ryzen CPU? I'd like to try and take advantage of the newer HQP filters that tax my current CAPS, and still keep my CAPS Streacom case with HDPlex LPSU and SOTM USB card. Sounds like it may be a nice upgrade to the CAPS V4 Pipeline.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[mirekti]

Sorry, if I missed this earlier but if your goal is to go down the NAA path, why not think about picking up Raspberry Pi 3 or Cubox and the NAA image that Miska provides. My understanding is NAA image has support for native DSD support for XMOS based USB and support 2x DSD for Amanero cards. I am not sure which DAC you are planning to use but something to think about. The Cubox is a better choice compared to RPi but it is more expensive also.

 

No need to apologize, I put all the info few posts above. ;-)

 

I have decided my NAA device will be "off the grid". DAC is the one which currently comes with Vinnie's LIO, but will probably be upgraded once the new one is released. As you can see, my goal is to keep it all off the grid.

Worst case scenario Uptone LPS-1 & sMS-200. I truly hope not to go this road, but Vinnie will be able to implement one of the solutions into a module which will simply be inserted into the integrated amp.

 

PC build, which is why I started this thread is mainly for HQPlayer and its upsampling capabilities.

As I don't know which way will my NAA setup go, I decided to go with the PC build first and "sacrifice" SQ by using USB<->DAC connection while waiting to see what will happen. A module in the integrated AMP is certainly a cleaner solution then two external devices.

[Ringohung]

You may also consider HDPlex 2nd Gen H5 case. It could handle GTX-1050TI or even GTX-1060 with passive heatsink and tubes that you could purchase separately.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[mirekti]

Thank you for all the comments. I also noticed there is NVIDIA P4 released. It would perfectly match the configuration due to its low power requirements and low profile. It is a bit pricey, though.

[mirekti]

I thought it would be ok to share what I went with. My goal was to run Roon and HqPlayer on this machine and at the moment (due to the DAC limitations) I can run following:

XTR-MP-2S -> ASDM7 -> 44kHzDSD128 from 16bit 44kHz with Pipeline SDM enabled.CPU shows between 8-10% in Task Manager.CPU temperature is around 50 Celsius. XTR-MP -> ASDM7 -> 44kHzDSD128 from 16bit 44kHz Pipeline SDM enabled.CAM NZXT I see jumps between 15-35% per core.CPU temperature is around 70 Celsius.

 

My ultimate goal would be to upload to DSD512 and be able to use XTR-MP-2S. I guess I will have to wait for my new DAC (few months) to really try it out.

 

This is BOM:

 

Case: FC5

MBO: ASRock Z270 ITX

RAM: HyperX Savage (2x8GB) 2400MHz DDR4 CL12

CPU: i7-7700

HDD:Samsung 850 Pro

PSU: Dell brick 330W + HDPlex 300W DC-ATX

 

I do have one more idea, and that is to add GPU and a fan.

 

If I added GTX 1070 the power required would be 282W @90% TDP. I think I should be safe with my Dell 330W, more so as I don't intend to use this graphic card for gaming, but only its CUDA cores to help out the CPU.

Ideally, I would mod the graphic card heat sink in a way to somehow add pipes to it and bind it to the left side of the case which is a heat sink. This way I would take some heat out by expanding the size of the heat sing on the GPU with case's heat sink. I am hoping not to get the fan on GPU spinning or in case it starts spinning to do it at low rate. Otherwise, the whole point of silent PC is thrown in the water.

In addition to the GPU and due to the case small dimensions I would add Noctua NF-S12A ULN. This would require drilling a hole in the right bottom corner of the case, putting a dust filter and set it as an intake filter.

 

 

I think this could work as there is no PSU in the case so adding a GPU and a fan shouldn't be too much of the heat overload.

 

What do you think?

How much of power will GPU draw for CUDA offload?

Would 1070 even help the CPU or it would be so minimal that I am just wasting my time?

 

Thanks!!!

[Markhh2]

Have you heard ROON ROCK? May influence your desxisions going forward.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/rock-hardware-primer/21756

[mirekti]

Have you heard ROON ROCK?

 

I have no interest in Roon Rock as I want to use HQPlayer and keep it on the same machine.

Anyhow, it is pretty much built now.

 

I was wondering if anyone had experience with Quadro cards from NVIDIA.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-graphics-with-pascal.html

 

P2000 or P4000 could be a nice thing to add to help my i7-7700 with CUDA offload. I am just not sure how much help it really provides i.e. how much this offload is. I hope I will get this answer from HQPlayer maker.

[Miska]

I just thought I could also share here my Kaby Lake based fanless server...

 

 

Case: Streacom FC10

Power: Streacom ZF240

CPU: Core i5 7600T

Motherboard: ASUS PRIME Z270M-PLUS

RAM: 32 GB kit of Kingston HyperX FURY DDR4-2133 (happened to have spare, if you buy new, get DDR4-2400 instead)

SSD: 256 GB Intel 600p M.2

 

 

This runs Ubuntu Server 16.04 and HQPlayer Embedded 4.x, headless, no display connected.

[R1200CL]

So now we only miss a web interface or a Roon extension [emoji3]

 

(For those like me that struggles with Linux )

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[mirekti]

I just thought I could also share here my Kaby Lake based fanless server...

 

Any comment on the idea of adding NVIDIA Quadro to the system from the post above?

Thanks.

[R1200CL]

I just thought I could also share here my Kaby Lake based fanless server...

 

 

Case: Streacom FC10

Power: Streacom ZF240

CPU: Core i5 7600T

Motherboard: ASUS PRIME Z270M-PLUS

RAM: 32 GB kit of Kingston HyperX FURY DDR4-2133 (happened to have spare, if you buy new, get DDR4-2400 instead)

SSD: 256 GB Intel 600p M.2

 

 

This runs Ubuntu Server 16.04 and HQPlayer Embedded 4.x, headless, no display connected.

 

What is the maximum DSD upsamling capability of this machine ?

 

Is my understanding correct that you need less power with embedded compared to a W10 & HQPlayer ?

 

The embedded needs a Linux installation first. Right ?

Any plans of making an image that install the embedded only direct on an empty machine ?

(Hope my question make sense )

[Johnseye]

On 3/15/2017 at 6:09 AM, mirekti said:

 

Any comment on the idea of adding NVIDIA Quadro to the system from the post above?

Thanks.

 

Do you need the Cuda to assist with a powerful Kaby Lake i7?  What have you found so far, knowing that you can't convert 512 yet.  Are you just trying to prepare for when you get your new DAC?

 

I'm looking to do something similar, although I currently use a mRendu.  Is there anything you would do differently now, or are you happy with everything you've built?  Where I'm stuck right now is with what PS and mobo to run.  If I don't need to run Cuda then that changes my components quite a bit.  My goal is to quiet any power noise upstream as much as possible.

[mirekti]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

Do you need the Cuda to assist with a powerful Kaby Lake i7?  What have you found so far, knowing that you can't convert 512 yet.  Are you just trying to prepare for when you get your new DAC?

 

As of now I am very happy. I am able to run xtr-mp filter, but at DSD128. You are right, trying to prepare for new DAC so no way to check DSD512.

 

In the meant time I drilled 4 1/2 " hole next to the MBO, added 120mm Noctua ULN fan (and dust filter) which helps with the air flow. Also, I found free 3D model which I printed out for $30 that goes on top of the fan and redirects the air towards the MBO.

 

The fan is super quite. I can hear the air coming out of the case if I put my ear to it. When I move 1 foot away, no way to hear it, even at 2AM when the ambience noise is at its lowest.

 

As the case is so small my next option (if needed, but for non -2s xtr-mp and DSD512 probably yes) would be P4000. I guess it is something like 1070 gtx, yet requires much less power. Would like to mod it to make use of the heat sink on the left, but all this is still in plans.

 

If you go with DSD512 and non XTR filters or any -2S filters, the CPU itself might be enough. I will let you know in June when I get the DAC.

 

Ideally, I wanted to go with Vinnie Rossie's VR120 and mod it as a PC case so it would be a match for my LIO. I would change that if I had a chance to start over. That kind of project was too much time and effort consuming so I went with F5 as I wanted to start to listen asap.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

[mirekti]

...there's one other thing. I managed to disable C3,C5 and C7 and keep the CPU @3.6GHz all the time. DSD128 and short-mp would only make CPU run at 6-8%. The temp in that case around 50-60, but never over 75 with room temperature 25-26 C. This video: 

 

 

Unfortunatelly, the only way is to try it out. Also, Windows tweaking helps. If you can wait another two months, I could do couple test cases and report back here.

[Johnseye]

25 minutes ago, mirekti said:

 

As of now I am very happy. I am able to run xtr-mp filter, but at DSD128. You are right, trying to prepare for new DAC so no way to check DSD512.

 

In the meant time I drilled 4 1/2 " hole next to the MBO, added 120mm Noctua ULN fan (and dust filter) which helps with the air flow. Also, I found free 3D model which I printed out for $30 that goes on top of the fan and redirects the air towards the MBO.

 

The fan is super quite. I can hear the air coming out of the case if I put my ear to it. When I move 1 foot away, no way to hear it, even at 2AM when the ambience noise is at its lowest.

 

As the case is so small my next option (if needed, but for non -2s xtr-mp and DSD512 probably yes) would be P4000. I guess it is something like 1070 gtx, yet requires much less power. Would like to mod it to make use of the heat sink on the left, but all this is still in plans.

 

If you go with DSD512 and non XTR filters or any -2S filters, the CPU itself might be enough. I will let you know in June when I get the DAC.

 

Ideally, I wanted to go with Vinnie Rossie's VR120 and mod it as a PC case so it would be a match for my LIO. I would change that if I had a chance to start over. That kind of project was too much time and effort consuming so I went with F5 as I wanted to start to listen asap.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

 

Are you able to run the PC without any fans and if so what's the case and proc temps?

Where did you get your Streacom cases?

[mirekti]

Yes, it works fine without the fan too. If I remember well XTR-MP DSD128 around 70 C, max around 85C. I wasn't concerned about the CPU.

The issue I has was the M.2 port is under the MBO so I added a fan. At first I had Toshiba M.2 which ram really hot (70 and more). I swapped it for Samsung but added the fan at the same time.

This 120mm ULN really shouldn't be of any concern. I listen at near field, 3ft away from it and have no issues. Of couse, some would be bothered. I would say you should be concerned if your ambience white noise is under 15dB or lower.

 

I bought F5 from Quite PC USA.

[botrytis]

Actually, I think AMD Ryzen CPU's would be better than any Intel CPU as most of the Northbridge system is built into the CPU.

[Johnseye]

42 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Actually, I think AMD Ryzen CPU's would be better than any Intel CPU as most of the Northbridge system is built into the CPU.

 

That's what I'm leaning towards now. Need to find a good mobo and PS for it. 

[Johnseye]

14 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

That's what I'm leaning towards now. Need to find a good mobo and PS for it. 

 

15 hours ago, botrytis said:

Actually, I think AMD Ryzen CPU's would be better than any Intel CPU as most of the Northbridge system is built into the CPU.

 

Now I can't find one Ryzen motherboard that has 2 NICs.  I could probably add a PCI NIC but would prefer them to be onboard.  I'll have to dig into that a little.  Ryzen is so new I think there's some risk involved with firmware bugs and lack of architecture support.  That will come in time.  8 cores for that price is hard to beat though.  If that can upsample DSD512 without needing a CUDA offload, that's a big deal.

 

Has anyone built a Broadwell PC and know if HQ Player takes advantage of all 8 cores?

[Miska]

21 hours ago, botrytis said:

Actually, I think AMD Ryzen CPU's would be better than any Intel CPU as most of the Northbridge system is built into the CPU.

 

Hmmh, that has been the case with Intel CPUs for long time too...

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

8 cores for that price is hard to beat though.  If that can upsample DSD512 without needing a CUDA offload, that's a big deal.

 

As usual, devil is in the details, so depends on settings... Both my i5-7600T and Ryzen 7 1700X can, but in both cases it depends on settings...

 

Quote

Has anyone built a Broadwell PC and know if HQ Player takes advantage of all 8 cores?

 

This has always been depending on settings, but 3.16.0 has improved support for higher number of cores and upcoming 3.16.1 will take it another step further.

[Johnseye]

On 3/28/2017 at 5:37 PM, Miska said:

 

As usual, devil is in the details, so depends on settings... Both my i5-7600T and Ryzen 7 1700X can, but in both cases it depends on settings...

 

 

This has always been depending on settings, but 3.16.0 has improved support for higher number of cores and upcoming 3.16.1 will take it another step further.

 

What are your thoughts on the i7-770T (35w) Kaby Lake processor on upsampling DSD512?  If your i5-7600T can I would expect the i7 to, but what are the settings required, or are there any limitations in the settings?

[chauphuong]

On 2/18/2017 at 11:48 PM, lmitche said:

Here is the best ever rated ATX power supply from JohnnyGuru. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151160&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&ignorebbr=1&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

 

At $200, it rated a 10 out of 10 in this review.

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=487

 

I'm running a 1600 watt EVGA titanium $450 and love it, but now that the Seasonic is available, I'd try one of those.

 

Get an LPS1 to power a hard disk, and you are done.

A bit off the topic, so the PSU in the link produces little noise (how little?) then can work well for audio, right?  Any comparison with HDPLex? Thanks

[lmitche]

I have a friend with the Seasonic and he is very happy.