The true experimental tweak thread

[Cornan]

Well, what do you know. I am back with Brooklyn DAC powered by the internal SMPS.

 

 

After countless of different grounding approaches I still found that the voices sounded a bit dull and some of the ambience was lost, so I decided to go back and use my Intelligent Sound Master Reference Studio 880 (dual starquad) connected to the ATL starquad wired & star-earthed PSD and use a ATL starquad ac mains cable to the Brooklyn DAC. Actually much better! Now the voices are crystal clear again and there is more air/3D/ambience and natural feeling to it all.

Somehow the DC- output grounding is only beneficial on network devices in my setup. As soon as I try it on the SMPS powering the ISO Regen or Brooklyn DAC it is like it is injecting noise, even though the grounding points is isolated from the network devices. Also, still ISO Regen sounds much better with GI off. ? 

 

While at it I assured that the incoming Ghent ET02 ethernet cable (grey cable from RE450 to Aqvox switch) was on a distance from other devices, even though it's a JSSG. Didn't notice any difference though, but it still makes me feel better! ?

 

[Solid-State]

28 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Well, what do you know. I am back with Brooklyn DAC powered by the internal SMPS.

 

 

After countless of different grounding approaches I still found that the voices sounded a bit dull and some of the ambience was lost, so I decided to go back and use my Intelligent Sound Master Reference Studio 880 (dual starquad) connected to the ATL starquad wired & star-earthed PSD and use a ATL starquad ac mains cable to the Brooklyn DAC. Actually much better! Now the voices are crystal clear again and there is more air/3D/ambience and natural feeling to it all.

Somehow the DC- output grounding is only beneficial on network devices in my setup. As soon as I try it on the SMPS powering the ISO Regen or Brooklyn DAC it is like it is injecting noise, even though the grounding points is isolated from the network devices. Also, still ISO Regen sounds much better with GI off. ? 

 

While at it I assured that the incoming Ghent ET02 ethernet cable (grey cable from RE450 to Aqvox switch) was on a distance from other devices, even though it's a JSSG. Didn't notice any difference though, but it still makes me feel better! ?

 

Have you tested to play without the Orange gizmo    (Jordfelsbrytare)

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, TubeMan said:

Have you tested to play without the Orange gizmo    (Jordfelsbrytare)

 

Yes, I have! It does'nt make a noticable difference to SQ, but it is a major difference for personal safety. It is a 2-pole RCD/GFCI (ie. not a normal 1-pole ditto) which is absolutely necessary for safety since it is both a balanced and a floating IT. The black box on top is a ATL inline DC blocker trap filter that is connected to a BlueWalker PowerWalker AVR (ac mains voltage regulator) hiding behind the curtain.

The ATL balanced and floating IT is probably one of my best hifi related purchases in terms of SQ. It makes the music glow in the whole frequency range. ?

[Cornan]

I got the screw terminal DC2.5/5.5mm plugs and sockets today. Right away I changed out the DC2.1/5.5mm plugs and sockets plus DC converters on the LM317 voltage regulator which I have had powered on for a while to burn-in the ELNA Silmic II 1000uF caps. While I was at it I made sure that everything was firmly secured and re-checked the output voltage to 14v.

 

 

I also rearranged so the Aries Mini and Aqvox switch was side-by-side instead of on top of each other.

 

 

Well, talk about difference from my previous attempt. Now suddenly the LM317+ELNA sounds really nice indeed. Especially in the deep bass range where the low end is a bit rounder with improved 3D sense. It also sounds smoother, more natural and fiber rich. Maybe a tad less transparent, but the difference is simply too small to matter. The positive increase really took me by surprise. The additional DC converters (DC2.1/5.5mm>DC2.5/5.5mm) surely decreased the SQ quite a lot. It also seems like the ELNA is fully burn-in now. 

 

Now, it will be very interesting to see how the dual LT3045s will compare to the LM317+ELNA. I still haven't got them. Hopefully latest on Friday. Touch wood! ?

[Monge]

@Cornan Thanks for sharing

I’m very happy with my Oelhbach phazer. It is a very nice tool.

Also I’m very happy with my Powerwalker AVR 1200 and the Axing and Supra DC blockers.

Where do you ground the -DC of the Ghofert going to your Aqvox Switch? To the gnd skrew of your PSD or?

Regards Monge

[Cornan]

19 minutes ago, Monge said:

@Cornan Thanks for sharing

I’m very happy with my Oelhbach phazer. It is a very nice tool.

Also I’m very happy with my Powerwalker AVR 1200 and the Axing and Supra DC blockers.

Where do you ground the -DC of the Ghofert going to your Aqvox Switch? To the gnd skrew of your PSD or?

Regards Monge

 

You're welcome Monge! ?

Great to hear that you are happy with your purchases! ?

 

I ground the following three things to my Entreq Minimus grounding box:

1. Aqvox GND screw

2. DC- output of Gophert powering Aqvox switch

3. DC- output of Gophert powering Auralic Aries Mini

 

I tried grounding DC- output of the Gophert powering my ISO Regen and also my Brooklyn DAC, but it sounded worse with possible ground loop or leakage loops. I also tried to ground the above 3 devices to the star-earth socket of my PSD, but grounded to Entreq Minimus simply sounded Superior. In my experience in my setup with the floating Gopherts it is not always beneficial to ground the DC- outputs of the network devices to the PSD where the Gopherts are connected to. I know this is against what John Swenson recommends, but is a fact in my perticular setup. I do not know yet if this is due to my star-earthed & starquad wired PSD, the floating Gopherts, a combination of the two or something else? I only know for a fact that it is a big difference for the better with an isolated ground receptacle in my case. In other words I would try to ground to different ground receptacles to see where it sounds best. 

 

Micael

 

[Monge]

Thanks for that information.

I have a jordspytt In the garden just outside my listening room only for my Audio. This was etablisted many years ago, so I was wondering If I could use this for my Switch. I actually have 4 one TP link TL Sg-108E and sg-108, Cisco Sg110 and Netgear GS108 v4.

I currently only use the TP link 108E.

So i have someting to try out.

Also I was thinking of making 3 jordspytt together to get the impedance down under 100 ohm.

I have ordered some CATV DC adapters today.

Regards Monge

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, Monge said:

Thanks for that information.

I have a jordspytt In the garden just outside my listening room only for my Audio. This was etablisted many years ago, so I was wondering If I could use this for my Switch. I actually have 4 one TP link TL Sg-108E and sg-108, Cisco Sg110 and Netgear GS108 v4.

I currently only use the TP link 108E.

So i have someting to try out.

Also I was thinking of making 3 jordspytt together to get the impedance down under 100 ohm.

I have ordered some CATV DC adapters today.

Regards Monge

 

If that ground stake (jordspytt/jordspett) is easy accessible I would surely give it a try on the network switch, to ensure that the network leakage gets off the grid. Otherwise you can ground to a water pipe for example. Do however start with what John Swenson recommend. To ground it to the same powerstrip as the SMPS is connected. Most people do and it is not intirely sure that you will experience the same issues as I did. 

 

Which CATV DC adapters did you order? Jensen?

 

 

[BigGuy]

13 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

If that ground stake (jordspytt/jordspett) is easy accessible I would surely give it a try on the network switch, to ensure that the network leakage gets off the grid. Otherwise you can ground to a water pipe for example. Do however start with what John Swenson recommend. To ground it to the same powerstrip as the SMPS is connected. Most people do and it is not intirely sure that you will experience the same issues as I did. 

 

Which CATV DC adapters did you order? Jensen?

 

 

IIRC what I was told/read, it is important that there be only one electrical ground.  Having more than one can result in ground differential which can be a problem in electrical storms, etc.

[Cornan]

26 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

IIRC what I was told/read, it is important that there be only one electrical ground.  Having more than one can result in ground differential which can be a problem in electrical storms, etc.

 

There is always a risk to create ground loops by using a separate earth receptacle. That's why it needs to be tested first hand and compared to using it at the same spot as the SMPS. If it improves or not interested comes down to the specific setup. I am using ac mains  DC Blocker into dual floats with a star-earthed PSD. In my case a grounding box is much better than than connected to the powerstrip. I cannot guarantee that will be the same for anyone else, but it could surely be worth experimenting with different grounding spots IME.

[Monge]

54 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

 

Which CATV DC adapters did you order? Jensen?

 

 

Thanks.

These ones.

https://www.dkvolt.dk/produkt/12v-ledningssamler/

I hope they are good enough.

Regards Monge

[Cornan]

39 minutes ago, Monge said:

Thanks.

These ones.

https://www.dkvolt.dk/produkt/12v-ledningssamler/

I hope they are good enough.

Regards Monge

 

Sorry, I thought you meant CATV DC blockers! ?

 

 

Yeah, those screw terminal DC plugs looks just fine. I have ordered roughly 60 pcs of them from various sources. Just one of them was bad.

[BigGuy]

I have other SMPS powering devices, e.g., work light, other than audio/computer supplies.  Many of them are plugged into the same power strip as those for audio/computer.  Just installed the FS105 Ver3 whose SMPS has been plugged into the same strip and grounded so I should be OK on the ethernet side.

 

Is there a technical reason why these other SMPS should get the grounding umbilical treatment as well? 

[Cornan]

10 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

I have other SMPS powering devices, e.g., work light, other than audio/computer supplies.  Many of them are plugged into the same power strip as those for audio/computer.  Just installed the FS105 Ver3 whose SMPS has been plugged into the same strip and grounded so I should be OK on the ethernet side.

 

Is there a technical reason why these other SMPS should get the grounding umbilical treatment as well? 

 

The reason trying to ground the DC- output of any SMPS is to shunt some of the SMPS noise away from the setup. However, in my two non-network related spots (ISO Regen & DAC) that I have tried it so far has only made it worse with additional ground loops or leakage loops as it seems. I am sure it is possible to get it working and improve things, but will require additional ground spots. I am planning to try it out soon with the help of my Aucharm grounding box. In addition to that I am trying to isolate the noise between the SMPS and the powered devices by voltage regulator or shunt regulators at the DC cable path.

 

However, since I use floating SMPSs connected to a floating balanced IT and DC Blocker plus using a star-earthed PSD (all grounds is connected to a single point) for my whole setup it is a pretty uncommon setup around here. I wouldn't know if my experience will mirror your one. That's why the only way to know is to try it out in your own perticular setup.

 

In the end it is all just an hide-and-seek-game between power, isolation and grounding. The winner is the one that can balance them all! ?

[Abtr]

24 minutes ago, Cornan said:

...

In the end it is all just an hide-and-seek-game between power, isolation and grounding. The winner is the one that can balance them all! ?

 

An AC mains isolation transformer with (floating) balanced output?

[Cornan]

24 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

An AC mains isolation transformer with (floating) balanced output?

 

Yes, that provides a great balance indeed! ? I am extremely happy with that perticular choise. Thanks for opening the door! ?

[Abtr]

13 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Yes, that provides a great balance indeed! ? I am extremely happy with that perticular choise. Thanks for opening the door! ?

Do you use a balanced mains isolation transformer for your (analog) gear? (That is a 230VAC to 230VAC transformer..)

[Cornan]

10 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Do you use a balanced mains isolation transformer for your (analog) gear? (That is a 230V to 230V transformer..)

 

Yes, for the moment I do connect my turntable (my one and only analogue gear in A setup) to the balanced & floating IT. In a couple of months time I will merge my A setup and B setup into one. I will then have active speakers as well as a unbalanced floating IT and balanced floating IT in the same setup (plus two AC mains DC blocker trap filter and two AC mains voltage regulators). I intend to experiment which IT should power what when that happens. Any first hand experiences what to try first?

[Abtr]

15 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Yes, for the moment I do connect my turntable (my one and only analogue gear in A setup) to the balanced & floating IT.

...

 

First try powering *all* analog gear with a single dedicated balanced IT. Note that for a decent power amp alone you'll need at least 500VA.. 

[Cornan]

48 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

First try powering *all* analog gear with a single dedicated balanced IT. Note that for a decent power amp alone you'll need at least 500VA.. 

 

Well, that's the problem. My ATL is just 250VA and my Peaktech 2240 is 500VA. The ATL is sufficient for the active speakers and perhaps the Brooklyn DAC as well. The remaining things needs to be connected to the Peaktech 2240 until I get a bigger balanced & floating IT. Anyway, I will experiment with any possible combo when I merge the two setups into one. Right now I am all focused on where the coming voltage regulators, Luckit BluWave PCB and shunt regulators with starquad Kelvin cables and DC plugs will end up.

[Abtr]

22 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Well, that's the problem. My ATL is just 250VA and my Peaktech 2240 is 500VA. The ATL is sufficient for the active speakers and perhaps the Brooklyn DAC as well. The remaining things needs to be connected to the Peaktech 2240 until I get a bigger balanced & floating IT. Anyway, I will experiment with any possible combo when I merge the two setups into one. Right now I am all focused on where the coming voltage regulators, Luckit BluWave PCB and shunt regulators with starquad Kelvin cables and DC plugs will end up.

 

So you need a high power mains IT to feed balanced AC to your DAC (pre-amp) and power-amps. I currently use an Airlink BPS 1502EU (1500VA)..

[Cornan]

13 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

So you need a high power mains IT to feed balanced AC to your DAC (pre-amp) and power amps. I use an Airlink BPS 1502EU (1500VA)..

 

I might send my Peaktech 2240 in for a balanced re-wiring later on. I am very happy with it as well. It is not  a night and day difference to a balanced & floating IT, but the ALT do have a upper hand in music glow compared to the Peaktech 2240. Did you rewire the Airlink BPS 1502EU into a floating one? If so, could you share how you did that? 

[Abtr]

13 minutes ago, Cornan said:

... Did you rewire the Airlink BPS 1502EU into a floating one? If so, could you share how you did that? 

 

I shared that here:

 

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

I shared that here:

 

 

Thanks! ??

[Cornan]

Almost too much have happened in my two setups since yesturday night to explain it all in one go, but I will give it a try! ?

 

First I started off with a major change in A setup by removing the PowerWalker pre the ALT balanced & floating IT and use it directly connected to the AC mains wall inlet powering my TP-Link RE450 wireless adapter, iPad charger and turntable. Improved SQ a tiny bit.

Mind that this was only a test.

 

 

Next up was a two hour grounding experiment that ended up with ONLY the Aqvox GND and the Gopherts DC- output to the Aqvox switch being grounded. Nothing else. Also changed out the eBay metal bolt to  the original Entreq wooden bolt. It actually improved a bit! So now, with the voltage regulators in the DC cable path the DC- output grounding if the Aries Mini is ruled out.

 

Next up was my B setup that I recently changed back to Chromecast Audio after annoying playback issues. After a horrible week of trouble shooting playback stops with CCA I decided to go back to a clean KISS style PC based setup with JplayStreamer/AO/Fidelizer Pro/Process Lasso Pro. It immediately started with playback issues. *Sigh!* Fortunately I quickly found out the source of my problems. The USB PC Express card. I just changed to one of the ordinary USB inputs and everything just sounded great. Suddenly I could have Minimum Latency/64 samples on the TUSBAudio Asio driver and put in my favorite settings in Jplay Kernal Streaming/Ultrastream/1Hz DAC link/ 10 seconds PC buffer without any issues what so ever. It sounds marvelous! ?

 

As I earned some leakage grounding knowledge from my A setup I decided to remove the DC- output grounding and do the same as @mozes and use my Aucharm grounding box connected to the speakers instead of to the DC- output of my Gophert. Wow, that surely made a nice improvement with more air/3D/ambience as I like it!

 

 

Lucky that I was home all alone today. It have been a very productive day in terms of SQ. My both setups have jumped in SQ. Strangely the DC- output grounding now does'nt improve more than on the Aqvox switch. Maybe due to the additional voltage regulators? Hard to know, but I am very delighted with how it sounds all over my appartment right now. That's what matters to me! ?