A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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Curious about which server option you would choose & why @ $1500 price point?

 

1. Modified Mac Mini (modded) + JS2 power supply

2. SONICTRANSPORTER I7 FOR ROON DSP

 

Both support bridged connection but which would produce the best results?

 

BTW, I have no interest in building a server so that's not an option

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22 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

The sonicTransporters are designed primarily for streaming so you would not need at JS-2 level power supply with it. comparing for local playback in not really proper. They can play music locally and you can discuss options for that with Andrew at SGC. 

2

I guess it comes down to benefits of faster i7 processing (for Roon DSP upsampling) vs better power supply with Mac Mini. I will be using this with my Chord DAVE and eventually BlueDAVE, so not sure the processing side matters because any upsampling will be handled with my Chord equipment. As such, I am thinking that the mac mini combo is a better choice because better power supplies can make a real difference. Or am I missing something? 

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24 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

There is a lot of talk on CA about upsampling, but from customer feedback that I personally receive and obtain through support most people don’t bother with it. The only way to know for sure with your devices is to try it. I would only update the power supply for local playback and not for streaming. 

For local playback I use a Synology NAS, so isn't the server involved in both streaming and local playback? As you can tell, my technical knowledge is limited. Just trying to figure out best option. I will use all of this with an endpoint like the Rendu or sotm...  thx

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I almost have my new trifecta system all together. For those have experimented with different Ethernet cables in different places along the chain, just curious as to how you would rank the following placements in terms of importance (to producing the best end result)? 

 

(A) From Mac Mini to modded SMS

(B) From Switch to Mac Mini

(C) From NAS to Switch

(D) From Cable Modem to Switch

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Hi Guys, I am having trouble connecting Synology NAS to Roon using a bridged mini-mac config and full trifecta solution. I can see the NAS in the mini-mac finder and can get to NAS via the web. However, when I try to add it as a folder via "add network share" feature, it says path invalid. Any help would be really appreciated... thx

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Man I wish I knew that you have to have a master in computer science to know how to connect a NAS drive to a bridged macmini. Guess I will explore external hard drives or sell the macmini and get a server with enough built in storage...

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Scott, is this the same question you PM'ed me?

 

I've never run Roon Core on a Mac, but I find it weird that if you can "see" and navigate to your music folder on the NAS in Finder, there is no reason why you should not be able to do so in you Storage settings in Roon.

 

The only other gotcha for Roon with the sMS is to make sure you've enabled the Roon Ready app in the sMS. You should be able to connect to the sMS by typing http://eunhasu.local (on a Mac) in your browser. Make sure your Roon Ready app is "Active." You should also go through the settings - both the general settings, and the Roon settings.

Yes Rajiv, yes, same question. Very frustrated. The sms200 is active as per the link you reference. I even did that ssh option referenced earlier in the thread but still does not work. Really makes me wish that I did not purchase a modded mini mac, I would have been better served with an audio server with storage 

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2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Not sure if you’ve resolved this yet as I’m slowly getting caught up on this thread.

 

Roon makes the connection via SMB, whereas the Finder has a few additional tricks up its sleeve to discover shared folders.

 

i used an SMB path to access my share from Roon:

 

smb://10.0.0.83/Media

 

Note one downside to this is that your NAS needs to retain the IP address, or Roon will think it’s an entirely different folder and rescan.  Be sure to reserve the IP address for you NAS.

 

Also enable SMB3 on your Synology.  This is in Control Panel...File Sevices....Advanced Settings (for SMB)... Maximum SMB protocol.

.

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for the tip. I will give it a try later today

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Need some help getting trifecta and mini mac running. Anyone from Toronto and very tech savvy? Willing to pay for your time... thx

[spotforscott]

Full trifecta is up and operational (GS105 modded switch, sms200 with clock mod and txUSB ULTRA - all powered with LPS 1.2, on a dedicated line). USB Ultra serves as the master clock. I have been using a modded mac mini as a bridged server - powered by JS-2, as is the synology NAS, on a dedicated line 

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Heard jaw-dropping improvement today that I wanted share...

 

First a little context: It's no secret (from posts I have made) that I have had my difficulties setting all of this up and getting it running. Well, all is good except for Roon not being able to find NAS. I have ordered a ST i7 with 2TB of storage - it will be replacing the modded Mini Mac anbd taking the NAS out of the system!

 

Anyways, because I will soon be switching out the mac mini and running my files from the ST i7 server rather, I took the JS-2 power away from the NAS and plugged it into the cable modem. I also used a better totaldac ethernet cable to connect it to the Mini Mac.

 

...OMFG, this change produced a massive improvement! I thought the system was a little hard/ edgy sounding because more burn in was needed. It turns out that the real problem was source noise. Seriously, a massive improvement! However, keep in mind that it was not just the JS-2 that made the difference, I am sure the dedicated line helped too. Line it was on previously has TV, apple TV and cable box on it too.

 

Moral of the story is, don't assume you can ignore the quality of power going to the cable modem because you have a bridged connection, modded switch and expensive SoTM ethernet cables (dCBL-CAT7) feeding your sms200. I was truly shocked by the difference.

 

That inspired me to do John's shunt trick on the modded switch and yet again, a really nice improvement - none of this subtle! I am sitting here just blown away by how this stupid noise gets in the way of the music - thanks to everyone for helping me understand how to get my system to a level I have never hear before

[spotforscott]

Yes, have the shunted LPS 1.2 on the modded switch. The cable modem is connected to mac mini via an ethernet cable using thunderbolt adapter. I use ethernet cable from mac mini to modded switch. From switch, I use SoTM ethernet cable to sms200

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Yes sir!

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Has anybody with LPS 1.2's shunted them to sms200 or txUSBultra? I assume it's not needed - just needed for switch. Just want to see if anyone has tried it despite the fact that shunting is supposed to be built into LPS 1.2 

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No I have not tried inserting a wireless bridge between the modem and the mac mini. I would have thought a wired connection would be better than wireless? Is that not the case? For you it sounds better, eh?

[spotforscott]

Hmmm... interesting. What wireless bridge are you using? Thanks for the LAN isolator Idea, I will do some more reading on that 

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27 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I have a similar experience. I just recently started to learn something about electronics (I'm a software Guy) and I did a measurement of my AC with an oscilloscope, looking for common mode noise. I was shocked by the effect of SMPS's. I've always used LPS's in my audio chain. Yet, I still have some SMPS's on the same line that are not part of my audio chain. So I replaced the SMPS's for the cable modem, another switch just behind this cable modem, wifi router, Synology NAS and Zotac IQ01 PC. The last one is used as RoonServer. I still have to remove some other SMPS's, one used for security cameras and another used for a Logitech infrared extender. I've even put a decent power cord on my Netgear 24 port switch. This one still uses an internal SMPS. Perhaps in the future, I will also try to replace this SMPS. Given the number of SMPS's in your system, this can become somewhat expensive though! And yes, I almost forgot: I'm replacing my ethernet cables with high quality (but not expensive) cables. In the audio chain, this was already the case.

Yeah, once you hear what harm those dastardly SMPS do to your audio system, you want them gone!!! I am lucky that I have 3 dedicated lines into my system to isolate the noise generators to one line. Even my DAVE dac is a noise generator so it is on a line by itself. The remaining dedicated line only has LPS 1.2's and JS-2 on it. I'm still in shock over the difference i heard by upgrading power source or modem / router

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1 minute ago, mozes said:

Smart decision, less external interaction.

For sure. Really looking forward to putting that into the system next week and listen to some hi-res music stored on the server. I wonder how it will compare to Tidal now that my network is much cleaner...

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For those of you who don't want to see "the little boxes", create a nook behind the TV and put all of the boxes there. High WAF  

 

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8 hours ago, mozes said:

Is the wife ok with the speaker power cords?  

Nope <lol>!  Looking at some alternatives

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10 hours ago, austinpop said:

PSU Update

Of late, I've had an embarrassment of riches when it comes to PSUs, so it has been educational to compare and contrast them in my system. The 2 latest ones I've had in-house have been the SOtM sPS-500 with a Ghent DC31 starquad cable, kindly loaned to me by @atxkyle, as well as an Uptone JS-2, with the supplied 1.5m Belden cable, which is also a loaner from @Superdad.

 

As shouldn't be particularly surprising, PSU impact varies by component. In my system, I tested 2 locations - the SOtM-modded switch, and the tX-USBultra. More recently, I have a new location to test - the DAC - as I now have in-house a loaner Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. I'll talk about the PSUs in the context of each of these locations.

 

tX-USBultra

This has been the main location I've evaluated PSUs, so I'll start here. Here is my ranking of the PSUs powering the tX-USBultra at 7V.

1. SR-4 with DC3FSXLR silver cable
2. JS-2 with stock Belden (starquad?) cable
3. Tie between LPS-1.2 and sPS-500
   • LPS 1.2 with silver cable - more holographic image, but brighter
   • sPS-500 with Ghent DC31 - slightly smaller image, but smoother tone
4. LPS-1

Also note - the differences between 1, 2, and 3 were quite small. It took careful listening to tease out these preferences.

 

SOtM-modded switch

At this location, the difference between PSUs was much smaller. Again, with all PSUs set at 7V:

1. Tie between SR-4, LPS-1.2, and sPS-500
2. LPS-1

I didn't try the JS-2 at this location.

 

Mytek Brooklyn DAC+

I'll be writing more about my experience with this DAC in the coming weeks. For the moment, I want to focus on it only in the context of PSUs. While the LPS-1.2 lacked the minimum current needed to drive this DAC, I was able to use the other PSUs. Here is my ranking, with all PSUs set to 12V.

1. JS-2
2. SR-4
3. sPS-500

While the SR-4 had really shone on the tX-USBultra, on the Brooklyn DAC+, it was the JS-2 that pulled ahead, and by quite a margin. Compared to the JS-2, the SR-4 (and the sPS-500) seemed to lack dynamism, and sounded strained, and unexciting. What is important to note is that these PSUs did work with the DAC+.

 

This result isn't particularly surprising, since the DAC+ (or any DAC really) has an analog output stage, which really benefits from a PSU with vast reserves of current. The JS-2, with its beefier current capacity, was clearly better at delivering current peaks that the other, smaller, supplies couldn't.

 

Final Thoughts

1. The JS-2 PSU doesn't get a lot of attention these days, but I was really impressed by its performance.
2. While the much-vaunted SR-7 may rise above all of these PSUs, there is a caveat to consider. Not all SR-7s are created equal. SR-7 modules are selectable from 3 sizes - S (25W), HD (80W), and EHD (125W). When it comes to powering a DAC like the DAC+, while an S module may technically work, it may take an HD or EHD module to really make it shine. Those of you with SR-7s may want to keep that in mind.

Finally, my experience reminds us that while low output impedance and low ripple noise are valuable qualities in a DC PSU, an equally important attribute is current capacity, which means that  large and heavy transformer cores have their place. While this is perhaps no surprise with analog stages in a DAC/preamp, it was interesting in the context of digital components like the Zenith SE.

 

(PSU) Size matters!

Thanks for this, results are very interesting. Good learning... 

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13 minutes ago, afrancois said:

The SMPS does perhaps not affect the output quality of the LPS-1.2, but it surely does for the components that are not isolated. In my case my DAC and power amp.

 

Isn't the LPS 1.2 internally shunted to avoid SMPS noise pollution? Or am I missing your point?

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10 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Roy brought up the Oppo mod the other day and May replied here that they can do something similar.  I am very tempted to do this to improve my home theater experience so I asked May about it.  The cost is a bit more than from Oppomod which Roy recommended, but it is the sCLK.  They'll also swap out caps.

 

She also gave me some info on their new switch I thought I would share below.

 

Replacing sCLK-EX(4 points) with 10MHz Master clock input : USD1050

1.     Main clock

2.     2 Channel output

3.     7.1 Channel output

4.     Bluray driver chipset

 

 

Replacing capacitors :

For a digital board and analog boards(32points) : USD200

For bulk CAPS on the analog board input : USD100

For OPAmp(OPA1642) on Analog 7.1 channel : USD150

 

Replacing power input board : USD550

The above is the original power board on the digital part and below is the new power board designed by us.

 

The new SOtM switch

 

Wonder how PS upgrade and clock parts/ implementation compare to oppmod's? SoTM's is about double the price...

[spotforscott]

Very interesting findings. I am going to have some learning of my own next month. I have ordered a couple of things from Linear Solutions Design:

 

* OCXO Switch with custom LPS

 

Modded Oppo 203 with the following Linear Solutions upgrades:

* LPS: Nichicon KA Caps/ M-Cap upgrade

* OCXO Clock 

* New custom wiring throughout with 7N OCC Copper 15Pin 
* Furutech FI-06 NCF IEC upgrade  
* EMI treatment

* Aluminum Stabilizer

 

I will be testing it against my Trifecta set up. Attraction to modded oppo player is optical output to Chord DAVE. Hope is that my Sonic Transporter i7 (bridged) connected to the Linear Solutions OCXO switch, feeding the modded Oppo player via ethernet cable with optical out to the DAVE will hold its own against the Trifecta - using USB connection to DAVE. 

 

Will be testing using a direct connection from DAVE to hi-efficiency speakers (very transparent set-up) and with recently broken in Abyss Phi headphones.

 

I will be sure to report back on findings...

 

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In discussions with Adrian from Linear Solutions, he said that they do not believe external master clocks are the best approach from a sound quality perspective because the distance between clock and the chipset is critical. That's why they put OCXO clocks inside their units. I have heard a lot of chatter on hear about cable lengths to clocks and it appears he is taking that focus to an extreme. 

 

His rationale seems to make sense but I would like to hear it with my own two ears. Roy spoke very highly of what he heard with their approach (more of "you are there") and so I took the plunge and purchased their switch and modded oppo player to hear for myself.

 

It is truly an exciting time in audio. My system has never sounded better than it does right now...
 

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27 minutes ago, Ben2300 said:

Thx @spotforscott I just checked, they didn’t mention anything about modded Oppo on their site, I had a 105 was always thinking about improving the clock and LPS, but just couldn’t find one in the USA that can do it with clock other than oppomod version. Email sent let see what happen.

Yeah, I know. I approached them about the Oppo. They said that they have done many Oppo mods and immediately gave me pricing on all of the upgrade options.

 

I think they are just trying to keep their site focussed on their main business.

 

Something to keep in mind is what you want to use the Oppo for. For me, I want it for DVD/ Bluray concerts and as a Roon endpoint. The 105 can't operate as a Roon endpoint, only the 203 or 205 can.