CEC TL0-X vs Berkeley Alpha USB

[amir57bs]

Ayre, but Gordon's code is not necessary for good USB performance. There are some good non-XMOS based solutions out there as well.

I agree that there are many DACs which do not incorporate a really good USB receiver design, but this is changing. At first, designers just appeared to add USB as an after thought, now they are starting to get it.

 

As to ROON, I actually prefer linux/MPD, having tested these against each other on the µRendu.

 

 

i dont think so . gordon codes is really good. i did not worked on linux

[amir57bs]

Amir: I insist on you trying the microRendu. Given the simplification and careful choice of components, I think you might be surprised that even your AMR's USB input would sound pretty good. I was quite surprised by the improvement over both many configs of the mac mini USB chain, the Aries USB and the Aries AES. Quite remarkable. I suppose a very clean USB signal makes the USB input codec less relevant.

 

 

Barrows: Do you mean using MPD on the microRendu as opposed to RoonReady? That means no Roon, so no go in my book.

 

Also, care to comment on the microRendu?

 

I use the microRendu as a NAA endpoint, with Roon + HQPlayer upsampling. I really enjoy the sound, very musical and involving.

 

i will not go for more complex way. microRendu could not help

[semente]

i will not go for more complex way.

 

Oversimplifying is just as bad.

If you can afford it, try it.

What can you lose?

[4est]

i will not go for more complex way. microRendu could not help

 

You are already using an extra device- the Berkeley.

[semente]

You are already using an extra device- the Berkeley.

It's not any device, it's a Gordon Rankin device.

[barrows]

While I have great respect for Gordon and what he has done for computer based audio, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Anyone who suggests that Gordon's code, running on XMOS is the "best" or only way to get excellent USB performance has not tried many other devices.

Again, it is very possible that SPDIF is a bottleneck here.

I have used the Sonore DIY interface USB interface a lot, it does not use XMOS, but the same processor (but different code) used by the Amenero and Chord USB implementations, and it works superbly: certainly better than any disc spinner of my experience. Buy of course I am connecting it directly to my DAC circuit(s) via I2S, leaving out the compromised SPDIF embedding-embedding step. When you do DIY, you can get a lot of experience with different approaches.

 

BTW: The µRendu will elevate the performance of many DAC's USB input. I have heard DACs with no isolation on their USB inputs sound very, very good via the µRendu, when via a standard computer the USB input was completely forgettable in performance.

[4est]

+1, but this is likely falling on deaf ears. Pun in jest intended of course! LOL

While I have great respect for Gordon and what he has done for computer based audio, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Anyone who suggests that Gordon's code, running on XMOS is the "best" or only way to get excellent USB performance has not tried many other devices.

Again, it is very possible that SPDIF is a bottleneck here.

I have used the Sonore DIY interface USB interface a lot, it does not use XMOS, but the same processor (but different code) used by the Amenero and Chord USB implementations, and it works superbly: certainly better than any disc spinner of my experience. Buy of course I am connecting it directly to my DAC circuit(s) via I2S, leaving out the compromised SPDIF embedding-embedding step. When you do DIY, you can get a lot of experience with different approaches.

 

BTW: The µRendu will elevate the performance of many DAC's USB input. I have heard DACs with no isolation on their USB inputs sound very, very good via the µRendu, when via a standard computer the USB input was completely forgettable in performance.

[miguelito]

i will not go for more complex way. microRendu could not help

Couple of things...

 

On the microRendu: Right now with the BADA you're going from computer to USB to SPDIF to I2S inside the DAC. With the microRendu, you'd be doing network to USB to I2S, skipping the SPDIF step altogether. Or if you insist on the BADA in the middle then probably one more step. It's not clear to me you will need the BADA in the middle with the microRendu since the USB signal is very clean.

 

On the players: My previous experience comparing Roon vs Audirvana as players out of the mac mini USB was that Audirvana did sound better than Roon (and that is without any upsampling, bit perfect). However, the convenience of Roon outweighed the improved sound quality in my opinion. Once HQPlayer became a robust solution as a player for Roon, the sound quality surpassed Audirvana - even without upsampling. My point is that I did not find the Roon playback engine to be top notch compared to either Audirvana or HQPlayer - even in bit perfect mode.

 

On upsampling: I have found HQPlayer upsampling to add a depth and color to instruments and voice that is very appealing and natural to my ear. I have not had the opportunity to try a pure PCM ladder DAC so maybe I'm missing out there, but for DACs that ultimately are delta-sigma type, I think it helps.

[miguelito]

While I have great respect for Gordon and what he has done for computer based audio, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Anyone who suggests that Gordon's code, running on XMOS is the "best" or only way to get excellent USB performance has not tried many other devices.

Again, it is very possible that SPDIF is a bottleneck here.

I have used the Sonore DIY interface USB interface a lot, it does not use XMOS, but the same processor (but different code) used by the Amenero and Chord USB implementations, and it works superbly: certainly better than any disc spinner of my experience. Buy of course I am connecting it directly to my DAC circuit(s) via I2S, leaving out the compromised SPDIF embedding-embedding step. When you do DIY, you can get a lot of experience with different approaches.

 

BTW: The µRendu will elevate the performance of many DAC's USB input. I have heard DACs with no isolation on their USB inputs sound very, very good via the µRendu, when via a standard computer the USB input was completely forgettable in performance.

Sorry for the OT... But can you point me to more details on what you're talking about please?

[barrows]

Sorry for the OT... But can you point me to more details on what you're talking about please?

 

I think I need a more specific question to answer. Are you asking about the processor used for USB, or something else?

[miguelito]

I think I need a more specific question to answer. Are you asking about the processor used for USB, or something else?

I meant the Sonore USB interface. Thx.

[barrows]

I meant the Sonore USB interface. Thx.

 

Sonore sold a USB interface board for awhile, this was available to DIYers who build their own DACs. We basically made it because we wanted a really good USB interface for our own DAC builds. It features full galvanic isolation, and re-clocking on the output. Crystek CCHD-957 ultra low phase noise clocks, and an FPGA on the output side with a built in (defeatable) 8x oversampling engine with a really good partial minimum phase digital filter.

 

 

Unfortunately, we had to stop production of these as they were too expensive to make.

[amir57bs]

Oversimplifying is just as bad.

If you can afford it, try it.

What can you lose?

 

 

i am sure it is not good

[amir57bs]

You are already using an extra device- the Berkeley.

 

 

ok but there is no way

[amir57bs]

While I have great respect for Gordon and what he has done for computer based audio, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Anyone who suggests that Gordon's code, running on XMOS is the "best" or only way to get excellent USB performance has not tried many other devices.

Again, it is very possible that SPDIF is a bottleneck here.

I have used the Sonore DIY interface USB interface a lot, it does not use XMOS, but the same processor (but different code) used by the Amenero and Chord USB implementations, and it works superbly: certainly better than any disc spinner of my experience. Buy of course I am connecting it directly to my DAC circuit(s) via I2S, leaving out the compromised SPDIF embedding-embedding step. When you do DIY, you can get a lot of experience with different approaches.

 

BTW: The µRendu will elevate the performance of many DAC's USB input. I have heard DACs with no isolation on their USB inputs sound very, very good via the µRendu, when via a standard computer the USB input was completely forgettable in performance.

 

maybe you are right but i can not modify my dAC

[amir57bs]

Couple of things...

 

On the microRendu: Right now with the BADA you're going from computer to USB to SPDIF to I2S inside the DAC. With the microRendu, you'd be doing network to USB to I2S, skipping the SPDIF step altogether. Or if you insist on the BADA in the middle then probably one more step. It's not clear to me you will need the BADA in the middle with the microRendu since the USB signal is very clean.

 

On the players: My previous experience comparing Roon vs Audirvana as players out of the mac mini USB was that Audirvana did sound better than Roon (and that is without any upsampling, bit perfect). However, the convenience of Roon outweighed the improved sound quality in my opinion. Once HQPlayer became a robust solution as a player for Roon, the sound quality surpassed Audirvana - even without upsampling. My point is that I did not find the Roon playback engine to be top notch compared to either Audirvana or HQPlayer - even in bit perfect mode.

 

On upsampling: I have found HQPlayer upsampling to add a depth and color to instruments and voice that is very appealing and natural to my ear. I have not had the opportunity to try a pure PCM ladder DAC so maybe I'm missing out there, but for DACs that ultimately are delta-sigma type, I think it helps.

 

i have compared audirvana vs Roon , the roon was better.

 

CEC , Lavry , MSB make r-2r DACs

[Blake]

The OP seems like he might be open to trying to experiment with LPS power to his Berkeley Alpha USB. I am curious about this as well, as I never considered this a possibility.

 

jjhl1585, miguelito, you mention how this might be possible and if I read your posts correctly, this could be done with simply opening the case of the Berkeley Alpha USB and unplugging the power input (i.e. no soldering or DIY skills needed) and swapping in something else?

 

I have an Uptone LPS-1 powering my microRendu, but I have very limited DIY experience and no soldering equipment or experience.

 

Could someone provide a simple, clear, step by step on how I could use a Y cable with my LPS-1 to also power my Berkeley Alpha (this may also help the OP as well)?

[barrows]

i have compared audirvana vs Roon , the roon was better.

 

CEC , Lavry , MSB make r-2r DACs

 

+ Resolution Audio, Rockna, LampiZator, LessLoss, TotalDAC, etc.

[barrows]

The OP seems like he might be open to trying to experiment with LPS power to his Berkeley Alpha USB. I am curious about this as well, as I never considered this a possibility.

 

jjhl1585, miguelito, you mention how this might be possible and if I read your posts correctly, this could be done with simply opening the case of the Berkeley Alpha USB and unplugging the power input (i.e. no soldering or DIY skills needed) and swapping in something else?

 

I have an Uptone LPS-1 powering my microRendu, but I have very limited DIY experience and no soldering equipment or experience.

 

Could someone provide a simple, clear, step by step on how I could use a Y cable with my LPS-1 to also power my Berkeley Alpha (this may also help the OP as well)?

 

The Berkeley has a linear power supply onboard already. Not that it could not be improved upon, but power supply design is quite far beyond the scope of this thread.

[Blake]

The Berkeley has a linear power supply onboard already. Not that it could not be improved upon, but power supply design is quite far beyond the scope of this thread.

Yes, sorry my post was not very clear. I was simply looking to experiment with my LPS-1 powering the Berkeley to see if it improves upon the Berkeley's own LPS.

[miguelito]

i have compared audirvana vs Roon , the roon was better.

 

CEC , Lavry , MSB make r-2r DACs

Yeap. There are others as well, some with discrete resistor ladders. I might try one at some point.

 

I do remember your statement about Roon vs Audirvana, but my impression (and many other people's as well) was the opposite. So given my impression, in my system, I would not expect Roon to give you the ultimate performance. I would expect that HQPlayer, with no upsampling, sending to microRendu over NAA, could get you closer to what you want. This is my recommendation, take it or leave it.

[miguelito]

The OP seems like he might be open to trying to experiment with LPS power to his Berkeley Alpha USB. I am curious about this as well, as I never considered this a possibility.

 

jjhl1585, miguelito, you mention how this might be possible and if I read your posts correctly, this could be done with simply opening the case of the Berkeley Alpha USB and unplugging the power input (i.e. no soldering or DIY skills needed) and swapping in something else?

 

I have an Uptone LPS-1 powering my microRendu, but I have very limited DIY experience and no soldering equipment or experience.

 

Could someone provide a simple, clear, step by step on how I could use a Y cable with my LPS-1 to also power my Berkeley Alpha (this may also help the OP as well)?

Firstly, I don't know what voltage or polarity the BADA LPS is producing. This is easy to figure out with a volt meter.

 

However, lets back out for a minute... BAD is a very reputable company obviously and they've already put in a LPS there, which incluides a regulator and proper bypassing or so it looks from the picture. Is putting a bank of caps such as the ones in the LPS1 any better? Not necessarily, and keep in mind that the internal LPS has very short wires from the reg/cap and the input. So frankly, I would not be surprised if you find bigger effects by turning your BADA 90 degrees than adding an LPS1. My 2c...

[clipper]

To the OP:

 

I have a Berkeley Alpha USB, but in my opinion it's not king of the hill anymore. Remember: it came out in 2011. Pretty hard for something that old to stay on top, given the rapid advancements in digital audio...

 

I much prefer the Singxer F-1 (which is a bargain at $180 or so).

 

An Uptone Audio LPS-1 powering a microRendu feeding the F-1 sounds better to me than anything I ever had connected to the Berkeley...

 

As for USB conversion and upsampling: I strongly believe both issues are DAC dependent.

 

If your particular DAC's best input is USB, then go for USB. If the best input is something else, conversion can be great.

 

Some DACs sound best with upsampling (to me the Chord Mojo sounds best when fed its highest PCM rate, for example). Some DACs sound best with PCM to DSD conversion (generally DACs with SABRE chips, for example). Other DACs sound best when fed native files, with no external upsampling, filtering, conversion, etc. (Schiit multibit DACs, for example).

 

In any case, I like Roon too, but prefer the sound of Roon outputting to HQPlayer versus Roon alone (even in the case where HQPlayer is sending native files, with no upsampling, filtering, conversion, etc.).

[Blake]

The OP seems like he might be open to trying to experiment with LPS power to his Berkeley Alpha USB. I am curious about this as well, as I never considered this a possibility.

 

jjhl1585, miguelito, you mention how this might be possible and if I read your posts correctly, this could be done with simply opening the case of the Berkeley Alpha USB and unplugging the power input (i.e. no soldering or DIY skills needed) and swapping in something else?

 

I have an Uptone LPS-1 powering my microRendu, but I have very limited DIY experience and no soldering equipment or experience.

 

Could someone provide a simple, clear, step by step on how I could use a Y cable with my LPS-1 to also power my Berkeley Alpha (this may also help the OP as well)?

 

Please disregard my question above.

[amir57bs]

Yeap. There are others as well, some with discrete resistor ladders. I might try one at some point.

 

I do remember your statement about Roon vs Audirvana, but my impression (and many other people's as well) was the opposite. So given my impression, in my system, I would not expect Roon to give you the ultimate performance. I would expect that HQPlayer, with no upsampling, sending to microRendu over NAA, could get you closer to what you want. This is my recommendation, take it or leave it.

 

Thank you i try audirvana again