CEC TL0-X vs Berkeley Alpha USB

[Elberoth]

I have the 2016 MacBook Pro 13" (the outgoing model with Retina, SSD, i5, 8GB) and my PC server (heavily reworked CAPS v4 Pipeline) is much better. There is just no comparison between the two.

 

I have yet to hear a good sounding MacBook based server. IMO this is just not possible with the hardware limitations you have.

[semente]

i heard upsample but did not have extensive test on upsampling.

 

yes, i am member of goodsoundclub forum.

i respect romy , he is very smart in audio. i found DPOLS concept just in romy site, he use CEC and purist cable , we tested many cables and many transports but non of them were as good as CEC and purist. i am not romy follower but his idea are really useful.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=6&postID=22899#22899

my english is not good , what means "playing a romy"?

 

many users in this forum prefer uptone regen but i do not like it. many use audio quest diamond but i prefer purist , many use upsampling but i prefer bit perfect. i like emotional sound not hi resolution sound. sound should be dynamic in both micro and macro with beautiful tone.

90% of market give you low noise high resolution sound but not emotional sound.

this is my website about audio :

www.hifi.ir

I Amir,

 

By "playing a Romy" I mean being so cryptic and dogmatic about your preferences, to the point of undermining any attempt to make some kind of dialogue.

But I have to concede that audio is a subject that desperately needs some kind of specific clear language because what we have now is insufficient to let the message be understood (English is not my first language by the way).

 

You mentioned that you don't like "high resolution" sound.

 

In my opinion, anyone who enjoys good sound must surely like high resolution so what you are describing is probably a "high resolution" effect cause by artifacts, usually "grain" and other problems with the upper mid and high frequencies.

High resolution should sound "softer" yet "rawer", "gentler" and "dynamic", "warmer" but "clearer", more natural in fact.

 

It might be worth looking what is causing those "high resolution" effect in you computer as source...

Most people have given you a lead for you to follow: electrical noise.

 

You obviously do not have very tight budget constraints so I would start with the microrendu and if you are satisfied then definitely do give upsampling with HQPlayer a try.

 

R

[r_w]

Funny... emotional is how everyone else seems to describe the sound of Aurenders, myself included.

 

aurender sounds hifi , it is not good to me . it hate high resolution sound , i love emotional sound like Audio Note.

 

 

it is not good

 

I had a Pathos Endorphin CD Player for many years, my Aurender digital chain thrashes it for emotional, musical engagement.

 

I'm somewhat confused but each to their own.

 

... even the X100 has been compared to C.E.C

 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/09/19/review-aurender-x100l-music-server/

 

"The X100L has all the technical chops to be considered a top class transport. Period. I don’t mean “best in this category” or “best in this price class”. I mean top-level, take-no-prisoners, anything goes territory. I wouldn’t hesitate to put this thing up against the best I’ve ever experienced, up to and including past favorites like the Esoteric P70, Marantz SA-1, or the C.E.C. TL1N that I currently have on hand (roughly $10K depending on the exchange rate)."

[amir57bs]

I have the 2016 MacBook Pro 13" (the outgoing model with Retina, SSD, i5, 8GB) and my PC server (heavily reworked CAPS v4 Pipeline) is much better. There is just no comparison between the two.

 

I have yet to hear a good sounding MacBook based server. IMO this is just not possible with the hardware limitations you have.

 

 

when i use uptone regen i hear more clear sound, i hear better silence , i hear better bass , i hear more precise sound , i hear more macro dynamic , more punch , more energy in all frequency . regen will improve sound in many area but it do not improve micro dynamic, texture and emotional content of sound. i rejected regen from my setup.

 

please let me know what "my PC server CAPS v4 Pipeline is much better" means?

[amir57bs]

I Amir,

 

By "playing a Romy" I mean being so cryptic and dogmatic about your preferences, to the point of undermining any attempt to make some kind of dialogue.

But I have to concede that audio is a subject that desperately needs some kind of specific clear language because what we have now is insufficient to let the message be understood (English is not my first language by the way).

 

You mentioned that you don't like "high resolution" sound.

 

In my opinion, anyone who enjoys good sound must surely like high resolution so what you are describing is probably a "high resolution" effect cause by artifacts, usually "grain" and other problems with the upper mid and high frequencies.

High resolution should sound "softer" yet "rawer", "gentler" and "dynamic", "warmer" but "clearer", more natural in fact.

 

It might be worth looking what is causing those "high resolution" effect in you computer as source...

Most people have given you a lead for you to follow: electrical noise.

 

You obviously do not have very tight budget constraints so I would start with the microrendu and if you are satisfied then definitely do give upsampling with HQPlayer a try.

 

R

 

semente

i know what i should hear and it mean i know good sound . dogmatic peoples are blind and they just follow. i am not romy follower and i judge by my ears not by romy website.

maybe it is hard to find common language in subjective views but i could share my idea with some examples:

we had a good test some days ago. we used EAR DAC 4 to drive power amp directly without any preamplifier at first then we inserted a preamplifier between EAR DAC4 and Power amp.

adding pre amp to the chain had similar effect on sound when we switched from berkeley to CEC . adding preamp increase microdynamics and sound became fuller , using CEC increase microdynamics and sound became fuller.

when i say "high resolution" sound i mean those artificial high resolution sound like high power solidstate designs like solution, boulder and ...

 

my macbook/berkeley does not sound artificial and high resolution, it is good with purist Anniversary cable. i refered to Aurender sound when i used high resolution sound.

 

budget is no object , the result is more important.

[miguelito]

i like your kondo

Thanks. Yes I like it too.

 

So to recast your question... I think you're first asking if you can improve on the Alpha. I would try the LPS, and I would frankly do it just opening it up and connecting an external LPS to the power input without drilling any holes as a trial. I would think that some cap bypassing would help close to that point.

 

I would say that all components tend to have their sound. Maybe the sound of the combo Alpha+AMR is just not to your liking. Have you tried going directly into the AMR USB input?

 

As for suggestions of other devices, like I said you can try the microRendu. Or you could try an Auralic Aries working as a Roon speaker using the AES output into the AMR. I would loan you either for a try if you were in NYC...

[amir57bs]

Funny... emotional is how everyone else seems to describe the sound of Aurenders, myself included.

I had a Pathos Endorphin CD Player for many years, my Aurender digital chain thrashes it for emotional, musical engagement.

I'm somewhat confused but each to their own.

.. even the X100 has been compared to C.E.C

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/09/19/review-aurender-x100l-music-server/

"The X100L has all the technical chops to be considered a top class transport. Period. I don’t mean “best in this category” or “best in this price class”. I mean top-level, take-no-prisoners, anything goes territory. I wouldn’t hesitate to put this thing up against the best I’ve ever experienced, up to and including past favorites like the Esoteric P70, Marantz SA-1, or the C.E.C. TL1N that I currently have on hand (roughly $10K depending on the exchange rate)."

i listened to Pathos , they are not good.

CEC TL0-X is far better than other CEC models like TL1N.

 

reviewers are not trusted , they just write ....

[r_w]

Nothing appears to be good then eh.

 

i listened to Pathos , they are not good.

CEC TL0-X is far better than other CEC models like TL1N.

 

reviewers are not trusted , they just write ....

[amir57bs]

Thanks. Yes I like it too.

 

So to recast your question... I think you're first asking if you can improve on the Alpha. I would try the LPS, and I would frankly do it just opening it up and connecting an external LPS to the power input without drilling any holes as a trial. I would think that some cap bypassing would help close to that point.

 

I would say that all components tend to have their sound. Maybe the sound of the combo Alpha+AMR is just not to your liking. Have you tried going directly into the AMR USB input?

 

As for suggestions of other devices, like I said you can try the microRendu. Or you could try an Auralic Aries working as a Roon speaker using the AES output into the AMR. I would loan you either for a try if you were in NYC...

 

miguelito

i think linear power supply is very very important because i guess linear current delivery in all frequency is the key of micro dynamics.

i extensively tested macbook pro dirctly to AMR usb input and it sounded crap with very bad music flow.

[amir57bs]

Nothing appears to be good then eh.

 

 

 

reviewers kill good components with their wrong write up.

after many years between these wrong reviews i found arthur salvatore (HIGH-END AUDIO and Arthur Salvatore) then i found mike weblog (audiofederation) then i found romy (goodsoundclub) . very few people could help us and most reviews are not useful.

[miguelito]

miguelito

i think linear power supply is very very important because i guess linear current delivery in all frequency is the key of micro dynamics.

i extensively tested macbook pro dirctly to AMR usb input and it sounded crap with very bad music flow.

Yes, agree, so try that. I would actually consider using a LPS-1 unit with a very short cable.

 

As for the AMR USB input, I just looked at a few pics online and it looks like a very standard XMOS input board - that is you don't get the galvanic isolation that the Alpha implemented - so yes, the Alpha as a USB bridge to AES should be markedly better. It will still have a sound of it's own and it might be on the lean side and then you're back in square one.

[amir57bs]

Yes, agree, so try that. I would actually consider using a LPS-1 unit with a very short cable.

 

As for the AMR USB input, I just looked at a few pics online and it looks like a very standard XMOS input board - that is you don't get the galvanic isolation that the Alpha implemented - so yes, the Alpha as a USB bridge to AES should be markedly better. It will still have a sound of it's own and it might be on the lean side and then you're back in square one.

 

i never never heard good sound from any configuratin without berkeley.

it seems the first step of getting good sound from computer is using gordon rankin async codes.

berkeley use gordon rankin codes version 1.7 but AMR xmos do not use gordon codes.

[barrows]

CEC is the best 16/44 transport in the world. no other transport even over 50k$ dcs/esoteric could be close to it.

i tested macbook/berkeley alpha vs cec.

 

cec had better microdynamics in all frequency , it sounded fuller like LP , cec TL0-x was absolute in one word.

berkeley was good maybe even better than many high price transports but it was not fuller than CEC.

 

i send an email to Michael Ritter to ask him about that. it seems CEC use a very good powersupply.

 

i tested many usb cables like curious, some reclockers like regen , some battery to power up usb and ...

I put over 1000 hours effort on my setup but it seems computer audio could not outperform CEC transport. very bad news to me :-((((

 

 

 

Macbook Pro mid 2014 Retina 13″ (USB output on right side of Macbook), 8Gig RAM, Core i5 + External HDD for music files (Thunderbolt port)

MAC OS X Mavericks + CAD optimization Script + iTunes EQ off

Roon Labs Player Software (true Bit-Perfect mode with exclusive access) + AIFF File Format

Purist Audio Anniversary USB Cable 1.0m

Berkeley Alpha USB (Special Thanks to Mr.Gordon Rankin for Streamlength asynchronous code) + Purist Aquila AC Cable 1.5m

Purist Audio Neptune 75 ohm coax BNC Digital Cable 1.5m

 

i used sudo renice command to increase coreaudiod priority.

 

I would suggest that using SPDIF is quite possibly a bottleneck. One of the advantages of computer audio and USB is that one avoids the compromised SPDIF interface. Very few SPDIF interfaces in DACs are capable of the best possible performance, and here is where jitter will creep in significantly.

Seeing the jitter spectrum of these different set ups might be illuminating...

[miguelito]

i never never heard good sound from any configuratin without berkeley.

it seems the first step of getting good sound from computer is using gordon rankin async codes.

berkeley use gordon rankin codes version 1.7 but AMR xmos do not use gordon codes.

If you were to try the Aries, you'd avoid the USB interface completely, going to your AMR directly from AES. Another option is to consider a DAC like the dCS Rossini which will purportedly support Roon rendering internally.

 

On the Aurender servers: I've considered them for a while, but Roon has changed everything. If they had the option of running Roon core instead of their own server then I would reconsider.

[miguelito]

I would suggest that using SPDIF is quite possibly a bottleneck. One of the advantages of computer audio and USB is that one avoids the compromised SPDIF interface. Very few SPDIF interfaces in DACs are capable of the best possible performance, and here is where jitter will creep in significantly.

Seeing the jitter spectrum of these different set ups might be illuminating...

There are a lot of people who would say exactly the opposite.

[barrows]

There are a lot of people who would say exactly the opposite.

 

Yes, those who do not understand the inherent compromises of SPDIF. Problem is, a lot of DACs use poor USB receiver design, only now are some DAC builders putting well implemented, isolated USB recovers in their DACs, so many audiophiles have had experience with poor USB receivers.

Even SPDIF receivers can be done well, but it is much harder and more expensive to do SPDIF well than it is to do USB well at this point. The Problem with SPDIF is that it relies on recovery of the source clock which is embedded in the signal and there is no way to send the DAC clock back to the source. With async USB, the DAC clock can easily be the master for both the source and the DAC, and can be located where it belongs, right at the input to the DAC (whether it be a chip dAC, or something more sophisticated).

[amir57bs]

I would suggest that using SPDIF is quite possibly a bottleneck. One of the advantages of computer audio and USB is that one avoids the compromised SPDIF interface. Very few SPDIF interfaces in DACs are capable of the best possible performance, and here is where jitter will creep in significantly.

Seeing the jitter spectrum of these different set ups might be illuminating...

 

jitter is higher in spdif and more complexity is not good. but i should buy gordon usb dac. i prefer get a good sound before going to gordon wavelenght dac.

most dacs usb input is very bad in comparison by their spdif input.

[amir57bs]

If you were to try the Aries, you'd avoid the USB interface completely, going to your AMR directly from AES. Another option is to consider a DAC like the dCS Rossini which will purportedly support Roon rendering internally.

 

On the Aurender servers: I've considered them for a while, but Roon has changed everything. If they had the option of running Roon core instead of their own server then I would reconsider.

 

Roon in my setup was far better than Audirvana

[amir57bs]

Yes, those who do not understand the inherent compromises of SPDIF. Problem is, a lot of DACs use poor USB receiver design, only now are some DAC builders putting well implemented, isolated USB recovers in their DACs, so many audiophiles have had experience with poor USB receivers.

Even SPDIF receivers can be done well, but it is much harder and more expensive to do SPDIF well than it is to do USB well at this point. The Problem with SPDIF is that it relies on recovery of the source clock which is embedded in the signal and there is no way to send the DAC clock back to the source. With async USB, the DAC clock can easily be the master for both the source and the DAC, and can be located where it belongs, right at the input to the DAC (whether it be a chip dAC, or something more sophisticated).

 

 

ok theorically usb is better but few dacs truly implemented good usb input

[miguelito]

Roon in my setup was far better than Audirvana

I said Auralic Aries, not Audirvana!

 

At this point Roon is inextricable from my setup, anything that does not incorporate it is worthless to me.

[miguelito]

jitter is higher in spdif and more complexity is not good. but i should buy gordon usb dac. i prefer get a good sound before going to gordon wavelenght dac.

most dacs usb input is very bad in comparison by their spdif input.

What DACs use the Gordon Rankin codec? I have one, the Dragonfly Red, which sounds amazing. Wondering if there's a list somewhere of which use this codec.

[barrows]

What DACs use the Gordon Rankin codec? I have one, the Dragonfly Red, which sounds amazing. Wondering if there's a list somewhere of which use this codec.

 

Ayre, but Gordon's code is not necessary for good USB performance. There are some good non-XMOS based solutions out there as well.

I agree that there are many DACs which do not incorporate a really good USB receiver design, but this is changing. At first, designers just appeared to add USB as an after thought, now they are starting to get it.

 

As to ROON, I actually prefer linux/MPD, having tested these against each other on the µRendu.

[miguelito]

Ayre, but Gordon's code is not necessary for good USB performance. There are some good non-XMOS based solutions out there as well.

I agree that there are many DACs which do not incorporate a really good USB receiver design, but this is changing. At first, designers just appeared to add USB as an after thought, now they are starting to get it.

 

As to ROON, I actually prefer linux/MPD, having tested these against each other on the µRendu.

Amir: I insist on you trying the microRendu. Given the simplification and careful choice of components, I think you might be surprised that even your AMR's USB input would sound pretty good. I was quite surprised by the improvement over both many configs of the mac mini USB chain, the Aries USB and the Aries AES. Quite remarkable. I suppose a very clean USB signal makes the USB input codec less relevant.

 

 

Barrows: Do you mean using MPD on the microRendu as opposed to RoonReady? That means no Roon, so no go in my book.

 

Also, care to comment on the microRendu?

 

I use the microRendu as a NAA endpoint, with Roon + HQPlayer upsampling. I really enjoy the sound, very musical and involving.

[barrows]

Amir: I insist on you trying the microRendu. Given the simplification and careful choice of components, I think you might be surprised that even your AMR's USB input would sound pretty good. I was quite surprised by the improvement over both many configs of the mac mini USB chain, the Aries USB and the Aries AES. Quite remarkable. I suppose a very clean USB signal makes the USB input codec less relevant.

 

 

Barrows: Do you mean using MPD on the microRendu as opposed to RoonReady? That means no Roon, so no go in my book.

 

Also, care to comment on the microRendu?

 

I use the microRendu as a NAA endpoint, with Roon + HQPlayer upsampling. I really enjoy the sound, very musical and involving.

 

Yes, I prefer using DLNA mode (which is linux/MPD as the player) vs. ROON. But I see you are using HQP as your player and just using ROON for library management, that is an entirely different thing.

[amir57bs]

What DACs use the Gordon Rankin codec? I have one, the Dragonfly Red, which sounds amazing. Wondering if there's a list somewhere of which use this codec.

 

i know ayre use gordon codes. wavelength usb dacs also use .