CEC TL0-X vs Berkeley Alpha USB

[amir57bs]

We should all let Amir do as he wishes. (He will anyway. )

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

 

:-)))))

[amir57bs]

In my opinion the microRendu offers a separation of duties that makes ultimate sense: keep processor and data intensive tasks away from your audio system and render them in the cleanest way possible to your DAC.

 

 

So for example you can have an ass-ugly (not that all assess are ugly but that's definitely OT), noisy, cheap, and powerful PC with a CUDA card doing HQPlayer up-sampling someplace in your home, and yet render that beautifully through the microRendu. Wanna upgrade your drives/CUDA/memory/CPU? No problem, no need to limit yourself to low power processors that can be used in a fanless enclosure - and there are no fanless CUDA cards to my knowledge. Wanna move from Linux to Windows to Mac? No problem either.

 

 

Something like the SGM will sound great, but you are limited by what you can do with it in terms of processing power/upgrades/platform/etc. YMMV.

 

i think your solution is good but it increase complexity . i never found good result from complexity.

over 99% of uptone regen users like regen but i do not like it.

sending PCM data to network then converting it to USB then converting to SPDIF is more complex.

[miguelito]

i think your solution is good but it increase complexity . i never found good result from complexity.

over 99% of uptone regen users like regen but i do not like it.

sending PCM data to network then converting it to USB then converting to SPDIF is more complex.

Generally speaking complexity can introduce more corruption. Based on this principle, connecting your mac directly your AMR's USB should sound best. But it doesn't. A more complex solution does.

 

I have given you my recommendation. Take it or leave it. Thx.

[semente]

i think your solution is good but it increase complexity . i never found good result from complexity.

over 99% of uptone regen users like regen but i do not like it.

sending PCM data to network then converting it to USB then converting to SPDIF is more complex.

 

You have identified shortcomings in your file "transport" but you don't know what is causing them.

 

Many people are suggesting that you can add an extra element to the chain and address one of the probable causes.

 

If this happens you'll have a system that is as simple as it can be (your current state of "simplicity" has a problem, as you say, making it effectively TOO simple).

 

R

[amir57bs]

Generally speaking complexity can introduce more corruption. Based on this principle, connecting your mac directly your AMR's USB should sound best. But it doesn't. A more complex solution does.

 

I have given you my recommendation. Take it or leave it. Thx.

 

You are right, minimum setup is using good usb dac but my dac has no good usb input and for optimum result i should buy wavelenght usb dac

[miguelito]

You are right, minimum setup is using good usb dac but my dac has no good usb input and for optimum result i should buy wavelenght usb dac

A few things here...

 

The Wavelength DAC might have a great USB implementation but there are better DACs out there if you have the money.

 

The point I and others tried to make is that we have found the microRendu to make the implementation of the USB receiver matter less - again, you should try it yourself.

 

Additionally Roon is coming out with v1.3 with what looks to be a completely redesigned playback engine. This might sound a lot better than the current engine and possibly make HQPlayer unnecessary.

[miguelito]

The Wavelength DAC might have a great USB implementation but there are better DACs out there if you have the money.

Actually just read about Crimson+Quotient. I should audition this.

[amir57bs]

A few things here...

 

The Wavelength DAC might have a great USB implementation but there are better DACs out there if you have the money.

 

The point I and others tried to make is that we have found the microRendu to make the implementation of the USB receiver matter less - again, you should try it yourself.

 

Additionally Roon is coming out with v1.3 with what looks to be a completely redesigned playback engine. This might sound a lot better than the current engine and possibly make HQPlayer unnecessary.

 

Thank you, i check roon for update.

check below :

PC Engines apu2 system boards

Voyage Linux | { x86 Embedded Linux = Green computing }

GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - High Quality Music Server / CD player

 

i contacted with some company in computer audio and i asked some questions . i also contacted this forum founder.

it seems the best music server should be as simple as possible. i mean less I/O and less codes to run.

my summury:

- lighter OS like Lubuntu or Voyage Linux

- no VGA , no extra I/O device like keyboard , mouse and parallel ports ...

- less power consumption in CPU and mother board

- Good linear Power supply for both motherboard and USB output

 

i also trust this site:

http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/audioaanzee-reference-flow-music-server-part1/

[amir57bs]

A few things here...

 

The Wavelength DAC might have a great USB implementation but there are better DACs out there if you have the money.

 

 

this is exactly why i did not replaced my DAC with wavelength. to me the best option is berkeley alpha.

[amir57bs]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ethernet-vs-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-29739/index7.html#post618467

 

 

 

Reference-grade Roon with the Antipodes DX Gen 2 | DAR__KO

 

"According (to) our man in New Zealand the argument against Ethernet (and for USB) runs like this: compared to Ethernet, USB has the potential to carry more noise from the server to the DAC but generates less of its own noise inside the DAC (think: receiver chips). Ethernet remains a good strategy with a noisy server. However, it can be bested by USB when a low noise server with a decent clock is present."

[miguelito]

it seems the best music server should be as simple as possible. i mean less I/O and less codes to run.

my summury:

- lighter OS like Lubuntu or Voyage Linux

- no VGA , no extra I/O device like keyboard , mouse and parallel ports ...

- less power consumption in CPU and mother board

- Good linear Power supply for both motherboard and USB output

Funny enough, the microRendu ticks all of the above boxes!

[miguelito]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ethernet-vs-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-29739/index7.html#post618467

 

 

 

Reference-grade Roon with the Antipodes DX Gen 2 | DAR__KO

 

"According (to) our man in New Zealand the argument against Ethernet (and for USB) runs like this: compared to Ethernet, USB has the potential to carry more noise from the server to the DAC but generates less of its own noise inside the DAC (think: receiver chips). Ethernet remains a good strategy with a noisy server. However, it can be bested by USB when a low noise server with a decent clock is present."

Again, all of these points are FOR the microRendu, as the Ethernet interface is isolated from the USB interface as opposed to inside the DAC, which is what the argument above is about.

 

I will say it one more time: try the microRendu or the sotm sms-100 (similar device, but I have not tried it).

[barrows]

Thank you, i check roon for update.

check below :

PC Engines apu2 system boards

Voyage Linux | { x86 Embedded Linux = Green computing }

GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - High Quality Music Server / CD player

 

i contacted with some company in computer audio and i asked some questions . i also contacted this forum founder.

it seems the best music server should be as simple as possible. i mean less I/O and less codes to run.

my summury:

- lighter OS like Lubuntu or Voyage Linux

- no VGA , no extra I/O device like keyboard , mouse and parallel ports ...

- less power consumption in CPU and mother board

- Good linear Power supply for both motherboard and USB output

 

i also trust this site:

AudioAanZee Reference Flow Music Server (part 1) | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews

 

Yes, this is exactly the approach used to develop the µRendu. Just the minimum needed to render the audio, and nothing else.

[amir57bs]

Yes, this is exactly the approach used to develop the µRendu. Just the minimum needed to render the audio, and nothing else.

Funny enough, the microRendu ticks all of the above boxes!

 

I will buy it but i bet it does not beat CEC TL0-x :-)))))

[amir57bs]

Computer Audio Asylum

 

Against the tweaked Mac Mini running Roon, the microRendu sounds a little 'lighter' and more 'agile' but not quite as full bodied or dynamic. The difference is minute.

 

The System on a Module by SolidRun (green computer PCB) with Freescale Semiconductor ARM Cortex-A9 dual-core processor 1GHz, Samsung DDR3L memory chips x4. The microRendu carrier board in blue includes a Linear Technology switch mode voltage regulator micro-module at its input plus a couple other voltage regulators, crystal oscillator, USB hub chip, microSD card for the OS, Ethernet jack with magnetics by Pulse Electronics, and a few other goodies.

 

 

[miguelito]

I will buy it but i bet it does not beat CEC TL0-x :-)))))

Once you try it you will know for sure either way!

[miguelito]

Computer Audio Asylum

 

Against the tweaked Mac Mini running Roon, the microRendu sounds a little 'lighter' and more 'agile' but not quite as full bodied or dynamic. The difference is minute.

 

The System on a Module by SolidRun (green computer PCB) with Freescale Semiconductor ARM Cortex-A9 dual-core processor 1GHz, Samsung DDR3L memory chips x4. The microRendu carrier board in blue includes a Linear Technology switch mode voltage regulator micro-module at its input plus a couple other voltage regulators, crystal oscillator, USB hub chip, microSD card for the OS, Ethernet jack with magnetics by Pulse Electronics, and a few other goodies.

 

 

My mini is tweaked even further, with a board replacing the internal PS that additionally powers the cooling fan separately. This removes the fan electrical noise in the main board. Plus the input voltage is regulated through a secondary sense wire. And I have of course killed all unnecessary processes. The microRendu is still better, with a deep soundstage, beautifully fleshed voices, and piano notes with very musical color.

[clipper]

Computer Audio Asylum

 

Against the tweaked Mac Mini running Roon, the microRendu sounds a little 'lighter' and more 'agile' but not quite as full bodied or dynamic. The difference is minute.

 

The System on a Module by SolidRun (green computer PCB) with Freescale Semiconductor ARM Cortex-A9 dual-core processor 1GHz, Samsung DDR3L memory chips x4. The microRendu carrier board in blue includes a Linear Technology switch mode voltage regulator micro-module at its input plus a couple other voltage regulators, crystal oscillator, USB hub chip, microSD card for the OS, Ethernet jack with magnetics by Pulse Electronics, and a few other goodies.

 

 

 

A very entry level power supply (no offense to iFi) was used.

 

Try it with a better power supply and you'll get a significantly better result.

[miguelito]

A very entry level power supply (no offense to iFi) was used.

 

Try it with a better power supply and you'll get a significantly better result.

Interestingly, I have compared the mini powered from an Uptone JS-2 LPS (with more thorough hardware optimization than the article's) with the microRendu using the secondary power bank in the JS-2. So essentially with the same power supply.

 

microRendu wins hands down.

[clipper]

Interestingly, I have compared the mini powered from an Uptone JS-2 LPS (with more thorough hardware optimization than the article's) with the microRendu using the secondary power bank in the JS-2. So essentially with the same power supply.

 

microRendu wins hands down.

 

Absolutely!

 

I'm a big fan of the microRendu.

 

I was commenting on the iFi power supply used with the microRendu in the Computer Audio Asylum review that amir57bs linked to (implying that if the reviewer had used a better power supply he might have had an even better opinion of the microRendu).

 

Try to listen to the microRendu powered by an Uptone LPS-1 if you get a chance.

[miguelito]

Absolutely!

 

I'm a big fan of the microRendu.

 

I was commenting on the iFi power supply used with the microRendu in the Computer Audio Asylum review that amir57bs linked to (implying that if the reviewer had used a better power supply he might have had an even better opinion of the microRendu).

 

Try to listen to the microRendu powered by an Uptone LPS-1 if you get a chance.

Yes I understand your point.

 

I actually ordered an LPS-1 already.

[barrows]

Yes I understand your point.

 

I actually ordered an LPS-1 already.

 

miguelito: Are you saying you use the Mini to run HQPlayer using oversampling in HQPlayer? I thought Jussi recommends quad core processors to oversample in HQPlayer?

[miguelito]

miguelito: Are you saying you use the Mini to run HQPlayer using oversampling in HQPlayer? I thought Jussi recommends quad core processors to oversample in HQPlayer?

I am using a mini to upsample, an i7 quad core 2012 mini, see my system specs.

 

But the max sample rate in my DAC is 192 or DSD64 so upsampling mostly means 44 to 176, 48 to 196, 88 to 176, and 96 to 192. DSD64 is untouched. The CPU load is very small with these, maybe 3-5% max.

 

It starts getting hard when you upsample to DSD256 and higher, in which case you should probably be using the Cuda GPU feature which means use a PC (yes you can put a Cuda card in a mac). The great thing is you can get a relatively cheap PC with Windows 10 and a Cuda card for about $600-$800. Not a silent or pretty one, but one where you can rip, run Roon core, upsample, have massive storage if you wish, etc. Plus do keep in mind that any solution with a full computer as a renderer still requires you have another computer to either rip or manage rips. You could do this through an ipad vnc, but that's a major pain.

 

 

By using the microRendu, sms-200, or similar you can get what in my opinion is an optimal setup.

 

Ultimately the key objective is sound quality, of course.

[barrows]

Thanks, I guess I-7 quad core is no longer an option for a mini.

[miguelito]

Thanks, I guess I-7 quad core is no longer an option for a mini.

Not for a new one, but it doesn't matter. If you want to upsample to DSD128 I think you'd be fine with the current mini's (I have not tried so not sure). If you want to go to higher rates then it's prob Cuda time, get a cheap PC and learn to manage your stuff there (not hard really).

 

Having said all this, I presume you're considering HQPlayer as a Roon addon. There's a lot coming up in Roon's v1.3 including upsampling, so I would wait and see. Maybe HQPlayer becomes unnecessary - even for no upsampling, my understanding is the playback engine is fully redone and might sound gorgeous. Roon v1.3 is said to be released this month.

 

 

Coming over the hill: the monstrous Roon 1.3 | DAR__KO