CEC TL0-X vs Berkeley Alpha USB

[amir57bs]

Firstly, I don't know what voltage or polarity the BADA LPS is producing. This is easy to figure out with a volt meter.

 

However, lets back out for a minute... BAD is a very reputable company obviously and they've already put in a LPS there, which incluides a regulator and proper bypassing or so it looks from the picture. Is putting a bank of caps such as the ones in the LPS1 any better? Not necessarily, and keep in mind that the internal LPS has very short wires from the reg/cap and the input. So frankly, I would not be surprised if you find bigger effects by turning your BADA 90 degrees than adding an LPS1. My 2c...

 

 

berkeley use good transformer

 

[miguelito]

Thank you i try audirvana again

And please try HQPlayer in standalone mode - that is, just drop files in it's window. You can make HQPlayer not upsample at all.

[miguelito]

berkeley use good transformer

Plus BAD will know about power supply design, and they have chosen a regulator and cap that is appropriate for the design. It is not true that more caps is better, rather the best sound comes from clean power that has very low impedance coming in. Putting a bank of large caps with longer cables is very likely higher in impedance at audio frequencies than their design. I would venture that a good AC power filter might have more impact than attaching a LPS to replace the internal design.

[4est]

That power supply looks pedestrian at best from the photo- including the $8 split bobbin transformer. There is nothing wrong with the transformer per se, it just isn't anything very note worthy.

 

Plus BAD will know about power supply design, and they have chosen a regulator and cap that is appropriate for the design. It is not true that more caps is better, rather the best sound comes from clean power that has very low impedance coming in. Putting a bank of large caps with longer cables is very likely higher in impedance at audio frequencies than their design. I would venture that a good AC power filter might have more impact than attaching a LPS to replace the internal design.

[miguelito]

That power supply looks pedestrian at best from the photo- including the $8 split bobbin transformer. There is nothing wrong with the transformer per se, it just isn't anything very note worthy.

Frankly that's baseless criticism. In all likelyhood it is very fine tuned to the board requirements.

[barrows]

Frankly that's baseless criticism. In all likelyhood it is very fine tuned to the board requirements.

 

Agree that the supply is likely well engineered for the job at hand, as the Berkeley guys are good engineers, but I also agree with 4est that the implementation is rather quite ordinary, and could be of a higher performance. Even high end commercial products are built to price points. This supply could be improved upon.

[amir57bs]

And please try HQPlayer in standalone mode - that is, just drop files in it's window. You can make HQPlayer not upsample at all.

 

 

OK i will

[amir57bs]

Plus BAD will know about power supply design, and they have chosen a regulator and cap that is appropriate for the design. It is not true that more caps is better, rather the best sound comes from clean power that has very low impedance coming in. Putting a bank of large caps with longer cables is very likely higher in impedance at audio frequencies than their design. I would venture that a good AC power filter might have more impact than attaching a LPS to replace the internal design.

 

 

i agree more capacitance do not mean better sound

[4est]

If by finely tuned you mean bog standard three terminal IC implementations, then yes, sure. There shouldn't be anything wrong with it, but it doesn't seem like there is much to it. In all fairness, there is likely further regulation downstream. Improvements here may yield less than the inputs quickly if you perceive them at all.

Frankly that's baseless criticism. In all likelyhood it is very fine tuned to the board requirements.

[miguelito]

If by finely tuned you mean bog standard three terminal IC implementations, then yes, sure. There shouldn't be anything wrong with it, but it doesn't seem like there is much to it. In all fairness, there is likely further regulation downstream. Improvements here may yield less than the inputs quickly if you perceive them at all.

Actually, what I mean is very likely the regulator and bypassing is done such that it's optimal for the frequency required in the board, and possibly designed to work in tandem with other regulators in the board. More complicated or expensive is not necessarily better.

 

 

If you want to tell me that one might be able to get something slightl better by designing a lps tailored to this board, then sure. Same is true for the entirety of the design.

 

If you want to tell me that putting an LPS-1 to replace the supply in there, without any regard to the actual design, I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about.

[barrows]

Actually, what I mean is very likely the regulator and bypassing is done such that it's optimal for the frequency required in the board, and possibly designed to work in tandem with other regulators in the board. More complicated or expensive is not necessarily better.

 

 

If you want to tell me that one might be able to get something slightl better by designing a lps tailored to this board, then sure. Same is true for the entirety of the design.

 

If you want to tell me that putting an LPS-1 to replace the supply in there, without any regard to the actual design, I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

MG: I am sure 4est is not suggesting the latter. He is just pointing out that the supply is rather pedestrian in design; this is true of many, many high end audio products, standard 3 pin IC regulators for example, and moderate quality caps. Often cheapest possible bridge rectifiers rather than discrete ultra soft recovery diodes. This supply could be improved, as can most anything, by the application of some better parts. Noise is cumulative, so any noise reduction in this first stage power supply will still matter, even though I am sure there are plenty of local regulators and decoupling/filtering elements further down the line.

[miguelito]

MG: I am sure 4est is not suggesting the latter. He is just pointing out that the supply is rather pedestrian in design; this is true of many, many high end audio products, standard 3 pin IC regulators for example, and moderate quality caps. Often cheapest possible bridge rectifiers rather than discrete ultra soft recovery diodes. This supply could be improved, as can most anything, by the application of some better parts. Noise is cumulative, so any noise reduction in this first stage power supply will still matter, even though I am sure there are plenty of local regulators and decoupling/filtering elements further down the line.

Ok fine. Yes if you took that supply and improved some of the component quality with similarly speced but lower noise, etc components then it's possibly better, but isn't that true of all components on that board?

 

 

My Kondo Ongaku has a very simple power supply. Not a cheap one.

[amir57bs]

I will install Lubuntu Linux / MPD Player on my macbook pro , dual boot both mac and linux. Lubunto is a light weight ubuntu.

i will report about the result.

it seems linux could pass signal bit perfect with ALSA Driver.

in linux my friend Jadi could optimize kernel to low latency.

inserting uptone regen in my chain proved me the signal from macbook should be better and modifying BADA PSU is the last session.

if linux sounds as mac i will go for C.A.P.S .

[4est]

AFAI can tell, your macbook is the biggest limiting factor in your CA chain. Linux isn't going to fix that! It really seems to me that you are painting yourself into a corner and chasing the only thing you have, your tail!

I will install Lubuntu Linux / MPD Player on my macbook pro , dual boot both mac and linux. Lubunto is a light weight ubuntu.

i will report about the result.

it seems linux could pass signal bit perfect with ALSA Driver.

in linux my friend Jadi could optimize kernel to low latency.

 

if linux sounds as mac i will go for C.A.P.S .

[4est]

Your Kondo has a simple supply in part becasue that is all that is required by class A. The supply in that Berkeley is about as basic as they come. A full wave center tapped rectifier into a bucket supply capped three terminal regulator with an output cap. There aren't even snubbers or anything. I am not suggesting you replace it or modify it. I am merely stating that it is about the most basic regulated supply one could make. About the only thing I can imagine being simpler would be to replace the 3 pin regulator with a zener diode. Obviously they thought it was adequate for the task, and I would not know without testing it. I would love to think they labored over the PS, but it is likely straight off of a manufacturer's spec sheet.

Ok fine. Yes if you took that supply and improved some of the component quality with similarly speced but lower noise, etc components then it's possibly better, but isn't that true of all components on that board?

 

 

My Kondo Ongaku has a very simple power supply. Not a cheap one.

[miguelito]

Your Kondo has a simple supply in part becasue that is all that is required by class A. The supply in that Berkeley is about as basic as they come. A full wave center tapped rectifier into a bucket supply capped three terminal regulator with an output cap. There aren't even snubbers or anything. I am not suggesting you replace it or modify it. I am merely stating that it is about the most basic regulated supply one could make. About the only thing I can imagine being simpler would be to replace the 3 pin regulator with a zener diode. Obviously they thought it was adequate for the task, and I would not know without testing it. I would love to think they labored over the PS, but it is likely straight off of a manufacturer's spec sheet.

Agree with everything you said. I overextended my interpretation of what you said, sorry.

 

 

What I meant to state is that replacing what is there by an LPS-1 or similar, with long wires, is not necessarily better than what is there. I do agree with you, however, that you could improve on what's there with not a great deal of effort.

 

 

In the case of a good LPS replacing a SMPS powering a device, then I would say that would always be an improvement assuming current/voltage specs are up to par.

[4est]

No worries, and please do not think I was intending to disparage the Berkeley. The OP had mentioned his thought that PSs were important and that this device had a "nice transformer". I merely wanted to pass on that there really wasn't anything particularly special about its main PS as a whole. The other PSs on the main circuit board are the most important, and this one simply feeds them a pre regulated voltage. I also agree that the long lead would ameliorate many advantages of better supplies.

Agree with everything you said. I overextended my interpretation of what you said, sorry.

 

 

What I meant to state is that replacing what is there by an LPS-1 or similar, with long wires, is not necessarily better than what is there. I do agree with you, however, that you could improve on what's there with not a great deal of effort.

 

 

In the case of a good LPS replacing a SMPS powering a device, then I would say that would always be an improvement assuming current/voltage specs are up to par.

[semente]

I will install Lubuntu Linux / MPD Player on my macbook pro , dual boot both mac and linux. Lubunto is a light weight ubuntu.

i will report about the result.

it seems linux could pass signal bit perfect with ALSA Driver.

in linux my friend Jadi could optimize kernel to low latency.

inserting uptone regen in my chain proved me the signal from macbook should be better and modifying BADA PSU is the last session.

if linux sounds as mac i will go for C.A.P.S .

Amir,

 

I don't think you are looking in the right place (OS).

You really should try the microrendu, or at least an LPSU powered Cubox running HQPlayer's NAA.

 

R

[amir57bs]

AFAI can tell, your macbook is the biggest limiting factor in your CA chain. Linux isn't going to fix that! It really seems to me that you are painting yourself into a corner and chasing the only thing you have, your tail!

 

 

i currently have a good PC connected to my berkeley and it does not sound good.

[amir57bs]

Amir,

 

I don't think you are looking in the right place (OS).

You really should try the microrendu, or at least an LPSU powered Cubox running HQPlayer's NAA.

 

R

 

.

I will go for CAPS v4 before going to microrendu

[barrows]

.

I will go for CAPS v4 before going to microrendu

 

You might want to check the µRendu threads for examples of all the people who have gone from highly optimized custom servers like CAPS to the µRendu and reported a significant increase in sound quality.

[Jud]

We should all let Amir do as he wishes. (He will anyway. )

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[cmarin]

We should all let Amir do as he wishes. (He will anyway. )

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

 

Excellent point Jud. That was my conclusion after the first few posts.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[miguelito]

You might want to check the µRendu threads for examples of all the people who have gone from highly optimized custom servers like CAPS to the µRendu and reported a significant increase in sound quality.

In my opinion the microRendu offers a separation of duties that makes ultimate sense: keep processor and data intensive tasks away from your audio system and render them in the cleanest way possible to your DAC.

 

 

So for example you can have an ass-ugly (not that all assess are ugly but that's definitely OT), noisy, cheap, and powerful PC with a CUDA card doing HQPlayer up-sampling someplace in your home, and yet render that beautifully through the microRendu. Wanna upgrade your drives/CUDA/memory/CPU? No problem, no need to limit yourself to low power processors that can be used in a fanless enclosure - and there are no fanless CUDA cards to my knowledge. Wanna move from Linux to Windows to Mac? No problem either.

 

 

Something like the SGM will sound great, but you are limited by what you can do with it in terms of processing power/upgrades/platform/etc. YMMV.

[amir57bs]

You might want to check the µRendu threads for examples of all the people who have gone from highly optimized custom servers like CAPS to the µRendu and reported a significant increase in sound quality.

 

 

I check it Thank you