T+a dac 8 dsd

[Miska]

Jussi's "should be" I guess needs to be taken with caution. Right now I have a pretty powerful computer, albeit with an old processor, i7 3960x with a GTX 680 with 16 gigs of RAM and it is not cutting it at optimum setting for 512 DSD with HQP. At least on the surface my computer looks more powerful than the Airflow but who knows.

 

Pipeline SDM enabled and with -2s filter it doesn't work to DSD512?

[jabbr]

I have been waiting for this company to start shipping. Never got an email from them. I am glad you reminded me.

 

Jussi's "should be" I guess needs to be taken with caution. Right now I have a pretty powerful computer, albeit with an old processor, i7 3960x with a GTX 680 with 16 gigs of RAM and it is not cutting it at optimum setting for 512 DSD with HQP. At least on the surface my computer looks more powerful than the Airflow but who knows.

 

I have a similar system (i7-4930k/GTX 760) and it does DSD512 easily with the -2s filters. (CPU 25%) Even though CPU is 31%, it hiccups with the poly-sinc-mp filters. Could be something else but I tend to think that the 3.4 ghz CPU may be too slow. In my next build which will have the GTX 1080 I am wavering between a 3.6ghz xeon and the i7-6700k (4.0 Ghz).

[Miska]

According to Passmark GTX 680 scores 5712, GTX 980 scores 9755 so maybe this is the issue? However i7 6700T 2.80GHz scores 8951 versus your i7 3960x 3.30GHz has 12734.

 

For CUDA, best figures you get is to use CUDA-Z and check the double precision floating point performance.

 

Maybe Miska could comment - should Priaptor's system be able to do DSD 512? Could the Signalyst web site have a list of users PC configurations versus upsampling capability to help folks judge what to buy? Otherwise could be a lot expensive mistakes

 

There are many variables in each system. The CPU alone doesn't tell the whole picture as you can see from many of the benchmarks published online. My website is pretty limited, best source of information about suitable systems is this forum and for example the thread I referred to earlier.

[ted_b]

As stated over on the HQP build thread, my i7-6700k (passmark 10, 971) and GeForce GTX 960 (passmark 5,938) easily does DSD512 (29% cpu) at poly-sinc-mp-short. My CUDA-Z says 91 Gflops/s which is significantly less than Jussi's card (154) but seemingly providing great offloading.

[Priaptor]

Pipeline SDM enabled and with -2s filter it doesn't work to DSD512?

 

Yeah with -2s it works. I want it all though!!

[Priaptor]

As stated over on the HQP build thread, my i7-6700k (passmark 10, 971) and GeForce GTX 960 (passmark 5,938) easily does DSD512 (29% cpu) at poly-sinc-mp-short. My CUDA-Z says 91 Gflops/s which is significantly less than Jussi's card (154) but seemingly providing great offloading.

 

I am going to follow your lead on this. I have to send back the T&A but am sufficiently convinced the upsampling is amazing with this DAC and am going to go in the direction you recommend (possibly with a few modifications as Jabbr is suggesting) to get full capabilities.

[Priaptor]

I have a similar system (i7-4930k/GTX 760) and it does DSD512 easily with the -2s filters. (CPU 25%) Even though CPU is 31%, it hiccups with the poly-sinc-mp filters. Could be something else but I tend to think that the 3.4 ghz CPU may be too slow. In my next build which will have the GTX 1080 I am wavering between a 3.6ghz xeon and the i7-6700k (4.0 Ghz).

 

I am in your camp. I am getting hiccups as well. I love this new T&A DAC so much I want to get it's full capabilities and like you, looking at the options. I hear you about the GTX1080!! Sounds pretty incredible at less power utilization than the big guys now available from NVIDIA at "only" 599, but may be the card to go with. I definitely see a similar build in my future as well as a T&A.

[firedog]

I am in your camp. I am getting hiccups as well. I love this new T&A DAC so much I want to get it's full capabilities and like you, looking at the options. I hear you about the GTX1080!! Sounds pretty incredible at less power utilization than the big guys now available from NVIDIA at "only" 599, but may be the card to go with. I definitely see a similar build in my future as well as a T&A.

 

Have you compared the DAC to any others, especially more expensive ones? The buzz here is that with the upsampling it is a true giant killer.

[lmitche]

Funny, I am successfully running roon server and upsampling to DSD512 here on a single machine running without CUDA with a I7-6700k and 8 gigs of 2400 MHz RAM on Windows 10 1511.

 

This machine boots via ISCSI over the network where boot images and music files reside on a NAS served via SMBD. This setup should make this config slower then one with a local ssd.

 

I am surprised to hear that others are having dropout issues. My Windows build is highly tuned, so perhaps that's the difference. That and Roon / Hqplayer run from ramdisk.

[Distinctive]

It would be a lot easier if there existed a 'tested and certified' one-box solution (HW + SW) out there, but I guess we then are moving into the Music Gallery territory....(?)

I believe there exist a customer segment that are reluctant to take the plunge due to performance requirements for running HQP, and I am one of them (despite being familiar with computers).

[lmitche]

It would be a lot easier if there existed a 'tested and certified' one-box solution (HW + SW) out there, but I guess we then are moving into the Music Gallery territory....(?)

I believe there exist a customer segment that are reluctant to take the plunge due to performance requirements for running HQP, and I am one of them (despite being familiar with computers).

Yes, this is indeed SGM territory.

[juanitox]

the SGM is the ultimate weapon , a more reasonable costing machine will be waiting for too

[Priaptor]

Have you compared the DAC to any others, especially more expensive ones? The buzz here is that with the upsampling it is a true giant killer.

 

I have an MSB Diamond Plus. I am waiting for my amp that blew up to come back and do an A:B on my main system. If there is too much delay in getting my amp back my plan is to compare the T&A to the MSB prior to having to return the T&A.

[EuroDriver]

I have an MSB Diamond Plus. I am waiting for my amp that blew up to come back and do an A:B on my main system. If there is too much delay in getting my amp back my plan is to compare the T&A to the MSB prior to having to return the T&A.

 

To make it a fair comparison to the MSB Diamond Plus, you need to have the T+A DAC 8 DSD be fed by a SGM 2105 :-)

[guiltyboxswapper]

To make it a fair comparison to the MSB Diamond Plus, you need to have the T+A DAC 8 DSD be fed by a SGM 2105 :-)

 

I would love to hear the SGM without the T+A ;-)

[Priaptor]

To make it a fair comparison to the MSB Diamond Plus, you need to have the T+A DAC 8 DSD be fed by a SGM 2105 :-)

 

AND have the MSB fed by the same!!

[tranz]

I have an MSB Diamond Plus. I am waiting for my amp that blew up to come back and do an A:B on my main system. If there is too much delay in getting my amp back my plan is to compare the T&A to the MSB prior to having to return the T&A.

 

Would be interested in your findings, as to date I have not been able to get upsampling, whether offline or online, to sound better on MSB.

 

Unsure why, but perhaps it works better on chip DACs. Now if a chip DAC with HQP beats the MSB, that would be intriguing.

[hifial]

Would be interested in your findings, as to date I have not been able to get upsampling, whether offline or online, to sound better on MSB.

 

Unsure why, but perhaps it works better on chip DACs. Now if a chip DAC with HQP beats the MSB, that would be intriguing.

 

You do understand that the T+A DAC 8 DSD is NOT a chip based DAC when it does DSD, but is chip only when it does PCM. It has two (2) completely separate paths and designs for PCM and DSD. Basically it is two (2) DACs in one case.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant.

[tranz]

You do understand that the T+A DAC 8 DSD is NOT a chip based DAC when it does DSD, but is chip only when it does PCM. It has two (2) completely separate paths and designs for PCM and DSD. Basically it is two (2) DACs in one case.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant.

 

Very nice. Thanks, I did not know that. There have been a number of discussions about some DACs being better at PCM and others better at DSD. 2 DACs in one...

[EuroDriver]

Very nice. Thanks, I did not know that. There have been a number of discussions about some DACs being better at PCM and others better at DSD. 2 DACs in one...

 

Just to repeat some info posted earlier in the thread

 

The 1-bit converter in the DAC 8 DSD is the second generation of T+A's in-house developed shift register moving average DSD bit stream to analogue converter. Lothar Wiemann, the Chief Designer of T+A has been building DSD converters for about 25 years. He has been very creative, and rigorous to minimize jitter in the conversion process, and has also implemented a pretty clever filter scheme. How do I know this, a competing DAC designer told me !

 

Great care has been taken to precisely synchronize path lengths and component values. I am told that this level of precision is not available from commercial chip suppliers, so discrete implementations have a definite advantage over in chip implementations.

 

The other take away is that the DAC 8 DSD has a very good sounding analog volume control

[jabbr]

Just to repeat some info posted earlier in the thread

 

The 1-bit converter in the DAC 8 DSD is the second generation of T+A's in-house developed shift register moving average DSD bit stream to analogue converter. Lothar Wiemann, the Chief Designer of T+A has been building DSD converters for about 25 years. He has been very creative, and rigorous to minimize jitter in the conversion process, and has also implemented a pretty clever filter scheme. How do I know this, a competing DAC designer told me !

 

Great care has been taken to precisely synchronize path lengths and component values. I am told that this level of precision is not available from commercial chip suppliers, so discrete implementations have a definite advantage over in chip implementations.

 

The other take away is that the DAC 8 DSD has a very good sounding analog volume control

 

Nice ... sounds like a well designed DAC Of course I'm biased because synchronizing path lengths and working with precise clocks is a design feature that I favor. The only thing holding me back from getting one of these is the fact that I've been so terribly remiss in not building my own variant of Jussi's DSC1 (all the parts and boards have been sitting on my workbench for months) and buying a T+A would feel like a reward for myself that I don't deserve...

[tranz]

Just to repeat some info posted earlier in the thread

 

The 1-bit converter in the DAC 8 DSD is the second generation of T+A's in-house developed shift register moving average DSD bit stream to analogue converter. Lothar Wiemann, the Chief Designer of T+A has been building DSD converters for about 25 years. He has been very creative, and rigorous to minimize jitter in the conversion process, and has also implemented a pretty clever filter scheme. How do I know this, a competing DAC designer told me !

 

Great care has been taken to precisely synchronize path lengths and component values. I am told that this level of precision is not available from commercial chip suppliers, so discrete implementations have a definite advantage over in chip implementations.

 

The other take away is that the DAC 8 DSD has a very good sounding analog volume control

 

Thank you. That last point is also key; would not want it otherwise.

[EuroDriver]

Another highlight about the DAC 8 DSD, is that at DSD512, the clocks are delivering their native signal frequency without down converting, ie in their lowest jitter mode

[sydlow]

As stated over on the HQP build thread, my i7-6700k (passmark 10, 971) and GeForce GTX 960 (passmark 5,938) easily does DSD512 (29% cpu) at poly-sinc-mp-short. My CUDA-Z says 91 Gflops/s which is significantly less than Jussi's card (154) but seemingly providing great offloading.

 

If you don't do CUDA offload, can the CPU handle DSD512 OK?

[sydlow]

Another highlight about the DAC 8 DSD, is that at DSD512, the clocks are delivering their native signal frequency without down converting, ie in their lowest jitter mode

 

Seriously considering this DAC - have you any experience/comparison with an Auralic VEGA doing DSD128 and the T+A?