W4S and other USB fixers (non curated)

[sandyk]

Some DACs already have multiple rails to separate out various analog and digital pulls.

That's not always enough. Some of the better DACs use either 2 separate transformers, or perhaps SMPS for the digital area and a toroidal transformer based Linear supply for the analogue area.

Check out the internals of a Bricasti M1 DAC for example.

http://www.bricasti.com/images/m1_inside.jpg

[Blake]

Thanks for the updates Westy!

[tranz]

That's not always enough. Some of the better DACs use either 2 separate transformers, or perhaps SMPS for the digital area and a toroidal transformer based Linear supply for the analogue area.

Check out the internals of a Bricasti M1 DAC for example.

http://www.bricasti.com/images/m1_inside.jpg

 

That would indeed not satisfy if going all in. I prefer a separate box altogether. Something like this, with 5 separate supplies. Even the clock is fed separately.

 

The other side of that coin is that it now becomes crazy pricy!

[sandyk]

That would indeed not satisfy if going all in. I prefer a separate box altogether. Something like this, with 5 separate supplies. Even the clock is fed separately. [ATTACH]24294[/ATTACH]

 

The other side of that coin is that it now becomes crazy pricy!

 

That's where experienced DIY people can make significant SQ improvements with many commercial designs as well. My own Class A Preamp and Class A Power Amplifier . for example, uses a separate 2U rack case with 2 separate 30VA toroidal transformers for the Preamp supplying 2 separate 18-0-18VAC supplies to the Preamp, and a large screened 300VA toroidal transformer with 2 separate lots of secondary windings supplying 2 separate regulated PSU PCBs for the Class A Amplifier.

I also make extensive use of JLH Shunt Regulators in both, as well as in my DIY DAC, which also uses a 3.3V Paul Hynes regulator for the Input PCB (DIR9001 and 3 inputs) .

 

Unfortunately, many commercial products are hobbled by the "Bean Counters" due to the need to remain price competitive.

The same applies to unique designs like the Uptone USB Regen, where to supply a good Linear PSU initially instead of the supplied Meanwell 7.5V SMPS wallwart would have made the Regen's price way too high. Now that the Regen has become recognised as a very worthwhile addition, it's users will soon have the optional "Mystery " PSU to further enhance it's operation in many cases.

[YashN]

My post on "curated thread" disappeared.

 

There must be many of those disappering posts.

[YashN]

Yes, breathe the open air - not straight-jacketed & stultified, not cribbed, cabined & confined ...!

 

And not be force-fed huge posts and paragraphs to say one simple thing which could take a single sentence. Together with a mind-numbingly huge sig.

[YashN]

Not sure if I should post. Everytime I have posted my frank comments it's been deleted.

 

Won't happen in this thread

[Wyred_4_Coffee]

Hello,

 

I have been reading the forum the past few weeks and finally bought the Wyred USB Reclocker.

I used it with the supplied DC adapter, let it burn in for 60 hours and there was a definite improvement

in the sound quality. Tighter Bass, more detail, etc. Well, I ordered the IFI IPower and it arrived today

and used it with the RUR, and there was another level of improvement, this time more detail, fuller midrange.

 

I swapped out the original USB cable (no RUR or IPOWER) to A/B test and was amazed at the difference.

I am using the W4S supplied cable from PC to the RUR, and the supplied 6" cable from Wyred from RUR to DAC.

 

Any suggestions on cabling recommendations would be appreciated. I have a WYRED DAC2-DSD SE, Wyred ST-250 Amp,

Paradigm Studio 20 speakers.

 

By the way, I had to take a break a few times, had headaches from reading very long and wordy posts from "RE".

[YashN]

By the way, I had to take a break a few times, had headaches from reading very long and wordy posts from "RE".

 

Added him to my Ignore List. Easy once I had advised him to express himself more succintly (instead of wasting time and space).

[One and a half]

Not sure if I should post. Everytime I have posted my frank comments it's been deleted.

 

So, I have now sold all the others and enjoying just the Intona. The Intona cost a little more but needs no additional power supply and was delivered from Germany in 2 days!

 

Highly recommended!

 

Better read this fast before it gets deleted.

 

Yes, not much of a chance for posts to be deleted on this thread

 

The Mutec MC-3+USB can stand alone, the effects are similar to the Intona, open soundstage, clarity among others. The Mutec benefits from the Intona, since the Intona isolates USB and the signal is "cleaner" than what it was direct from the computer or streamer. As a rough guide to numbers and the effect of both:

 

100% = True USB transmission from computer to DAC (dream on, this is the real world)

 

40-50% = Just a USB cable

 

89% = Addition of MC-3+USB, same cable as ^

 

93% = Addition of Intona + mc-3+Usb

 

7% to go = In the realms of the unknown!

[sandyk]

100% = True USB transmission from computer to DAC (dream on, this is the real world)

 

40-50% = Just a USB cable

 

89% = Addition of MC-3+USB, same cable as ^

 

93% = Addition of Intona + mc-3+Usb

 

7% to go = In the realms of the unknown!

 

Perhaps 105% with a special request Curious cable ?

 

 

 

Only joking!

[pipis2010]

That would indeed not satisfy if going all in. I prefer a separate box altogether. Something like this, with 5 separate supplies. Even the clock is fed separately. [ATTACH]24294[/ATTACH]

 

The other side of that coin is that it now becomes crazy pricy!

 

In all honesty can someone please tell me if a DAC that costs more than $20k and in the case of MSB can go up to $80k I think, actually sounds so good and what are the SQ differences compared to a 5k or even $10k DAC?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[pipis2010]

Yes, not much of a chance for posts to be deleted on this thread

 

The Mutec MC-3+USB can stand alone, the effects are similar to the Intona, open soundstage, clarity among others. The Mutec benefits from the Intona, since the Intona isolates USB and the signal is "cleaner" than what it was direct from the computer or streamer. As a rough guide to numbers and the effect of both:

 

100% = True USB transmission from computer to DAC (dream on, this is the real world)

 

40-50% = Just a USB cable

 

89% = Addition of MC-3+USB, same cable as ^

 

93% = Addition of Intona + mc-3+Usb

 

7% to go = In the realms of the unknown!

 

What if you added another clock with greater stability and less noise in this chain? Again, how about a rubidium clock, even though the cost would dramatically increase...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[tranz]

In all honesty can someone please tell me if a DAC that costs more than $20k and in the case of MSB can go up to $80k I think, actually sounds so good and what are the SQ differences compared to a 5k or even $10k DAC?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

That only your ears can answer. Really. In your own room, with your own equipment with your hearing and preferences. Nothing else matters.

 

There is an MSB Analog 2nd hand with all the bells and various input modules discounted on this site for (granted, still a lot of money) ~8k. The biggest difference to my ears with MSB was the discrete ladder vs. sabre chips and that does jump the price.

[r_w]

Thanks v much Westy, great post with insightful info... just what this place is for, why would anyone delete such valuable input?

 

I'll get the industrial Intona, then like you I will have tried most of the current options (sans iFi).

 

Depending on the system (we know it will differ for individual setups), some I think prefer the Intona with one of the regen/recovery type devices, interesting that you prefer it solo.

 

 

;-)

 

 

Not sure if I should post. Everytime I have posted my frank comments it's been deleted.

 

So, one more time.

 

Here is my list of usb devices I have tried.

 

Ifi iusb 3.0

Regens one then two of them

Intona

Wyred Recovery

 

I am using Curious usb cables and with the Regen and Recovery I am using a Linear power supply. My source is a Bryston BDP-2 and my Dac is the PS Audio Direct Stream.

 

I started with one Regen, boy was I impressed! Then, I added a linear power supply and then another Regen. Each change added incremental improvements.

 

I then tried the iFi iusb 3.0. Placing this device before the Regen added additional clarity.

 

Then came the Intona... Oh my! The soundstage depth, width and such a purity of sound. What A Fantastic Product!

I tried it with the Regens, with the iFi iusb 3.0 and with the Wyred Recovery. But, the Intona was so far ahead of the others in sound quality it was best used solo. All the other devices degraded the sound quality. That is, they decreased soundstage, or added grain.

 

So, I have now sold all the others and enjoying just the Intona. The Intona cost a little more but needs no additional power supply and was delivered from Germany in 2 days!

 

Highly recommended!

 

Better read this fast before it gets deleted.

[SwissBear]

What if you added another clock with greater stability and less noise in this chain? Again, how about a rubidium clock, even though the cost would dramatically increase...

Interesting suggestion ; results are mitigated.

 

Some tests have been made by a German blogger, who has compared a cascade of two Mutec MC-3+ USB and an MC-3+ USB with his own DYI clock (see here (paragraph 5, 10-MHz clock) a Google Translate of his report https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktives-hoeren.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D5902%26start%3D120%23p109172&edit-text=&act=url). He has found that the external clock was not bringing additional value.

 

Another blogger has found additional value with his own DIY clock, feeding a clock signal into the MC-3+ USB (link here : https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktives-hoeren.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D5902%26p%3D114302%26hilit%3DHallo%2BPierre%252C%2Bhallo%2BFujak%252C%23p114302&edit-text=&act=url).

 

Mutec will probably announce a new 10 MHz external clock in the near future, with a price tag around 3'000 EUR. We will see whether this brings additional SQ.

[Nikhil]

We had a thread on here by someone from Germany who had positive results upgrading the clock on the USB Regen. The fact that it involved a clock chip that cost more than the Regen and that it involved DIY soldering made it a no go for most of us. But yes, improving the clock is always going to improve things.

[SwissBear]

But yes, improving the clock is always going to improve things.

Sure, the pb is to find a better clock than the one included in the Mutec MC-3+ USB...

[pipis2010]

Sure, the pb is to find a better clock than the one included in the Mutec MC-3+ USB...

 

It's rubidium and cesium clocks or something else? Sorry but I am a newbie with clocks...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[SwissBear]

It's rubidium and cesium clocks or something else? Sorry but I am a newbie with clocks...

Here you will find a complete discussion about the pros and cons of various technologies : https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktives-hoeren.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D4976%26hilit%3D10%2BMHz&edit-text=&act=url

[pipis2010]

Here you will find a complete discussion about the pros and cons of various technologies : https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktives-hoeren.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D4976%26hilit%3D10%2BMHz&edit-text=&act=url

 

 

Many thanks for this link SwissBear. Some very interesting thoughts and feedback!!

 

The reason I asked is because, a manufacturer I was speaking to a few days ago, was sooooo insisting on using a combination of OCXO (oven-controlled) together with Rubidium clock in a DAC, and it seems that his persistence actually is true in terms of SQ, Jitter, Noise, etc...

[SwissBear]

The reason I asked is because, a manufacturer I was speaking to a few days ago, was sooooo insisting on using a combination of OCXO (oven-controlled) together with Rubidium clock in a DAC, and it seems that his persistence actually is true in terms of SQ, Jitter, Noise, etc...

Seems the guy you talked to was knowing what he was talking about :-).

[pipis2010]

Seems the guy you talked to was knowing what he was talking about :-).

 

 

He's the guy that manufactures all these products:

 

products

 

I am interested in his USB-11 player with OCXO installed (only 1 OCXO for Audio only), which is around €1400-€1600 total price.

At a latter stage I would also consider his Rubidium clock, the RCG-10, even though he did mention he could try to install a similar Rubidium clock INSIDE the USB-11 Player, together with the OCXO, but the cost would increase significantly.

Just check the stability of the Rubidium clock, it's insane!

[SwissBear]

Just check the stability of the Rubidium clock, it's insane!

Well, the normalized phase-noise lower than -225dbc/Hz is impressive to say the least.

Any idea of the price of this clock ?

[pipis2010]

Well, the normalized phase-noise lower than -225dbc/Hz is impressive to say the least.

Any idea of the price of this clock ?

 

At the very end of the Product page, there is a pricelist for all products. The clock is priced at €3650

, but contact him first, because he may be able to drop the price a lot...I mean you will be able to save a lot of money...