Sonore microRendu

[vortecjr]

Would the microRendu really know if it is hard into the wireless bridge opposed to your router? This should be transparent to the microRendu. The only difference I can see is the capability of buffering packets inside the wireless Ethernet bridge. I reckon the microRendu get its IP address from the DHCP server (i.e. router) nevertheless whether it is connected directly or not. Having said this, the principal discussion around wifi vs. hard is another ball game....

 

I have been doing this long enough to know that things don't always work as they should. Anyway, my main concern is issues with ultra hi-resolution files.

[earnmyturns]

Would the microRendu really know if it is hard into the wireless bridge opposed to your router? This should be transparent to the microRendu. The only difference I can see is the capability of buffering packets inside the wireless Ethernet bridge. I reckon the microRendu get its IP address from the DHCP server (i.e. router) nevertheless whether it is connected directly or not. Having said this, the principal discussion around wifi vs. hard is another ball game....

When I first got a SOtM sMS-100, I did lots of experiments with wireless (Airport Express bridge) and powerline connections (Netgear, etc). No luck for FLAC 96/24. Too many dropouts, distortion, totally unusable in the evening when the neighborhood hummed with interference sources. Gave up, all wired with CAT-6 and 1Gb router and switches now, zero problems since then. I don't know the exact differences between the sMS-100 and the microRendu, but they run versions of the same software and I doubt they'd be hugely different in their ability to deal with bad networks (Jesus can correct me).

[firedog]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-rendu-27387/#post505412

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

Sort of answered. Except that he said he hadn't actually tried it. Now that John is actually in using one, I'd be interested to hear what he says about it.

[MikeJazz]

I believe the Microrendu will only not have the CE mark, so you can try to import it there, but at your own risks (customs can destroy electronic devices, if they're not conform to local regulation).

 

The good thing is that it will be a device with a separate SMPS, and the SMPS get the CE mark, so I don't think it could be a problem (but we never know with customs...)

 

What do you mean?

The MicroRendu will not be sold in Europe? I want to buy it!

 

I asked jesus about the strategy for europe, and let's hear from him and hopefully there's a solution.

 

My understanding is if the unit is sold as a part or "kit" and without any smts it could avoid ce certification altogether.

Then would be easy to do some diy and put into a case and find a power sypply with the appropriate ce mark. I guess this would be a similar approach to miska's dsc1 dac, except that in this case Miska is not selling dsc1, if I am not mistaken.

 

Disclaimer ... this is as I understand the regulations so don't take this as fact.

 

Firstly, as an individual you can import non-CE marked appliances into Europe with no problem. What would be a problem is if a retailer wanted to import a batch of them for resale ... absolutely they could not do this.

 

The requirements for a CE mark for the microRendu (rather than any PSU) would fall under Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) directive and Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS). The latter would be primarily concerned with how the product is manufactured (in the case of the micron it would be mostly things like if lead based solder is used) the former may not even be applicable as no wireless is involved. I'm not sure how the EMC regulations compare with US regulations that I presume have to be fulfilled but I suspect there would be no issue with passing EMC directive if Sonore so chose.

 

Separately any power supply would need to comply with low voltage directive but that applies to equipment in the 50v to 500v range (again iirc).

 

So basically if you want Sonore to sell you a microRendu for use in Europe there should be no issue.

 

Eloise

 

PS. Mike... I don't think an "uncased" version or kit would be exempt from requiring CE Mark - I know the Raspberry Pi had to be tested for compliance.

 

PPS. As I said above, none of this is definitive and based on my understanding ... don't rely on it for advice.

 

 

hi jesus,

I was hoping you could chime in and comment on our questions about the possibility of your distribution to europe...thanks.

[JohnSwenson]

Hi John-

 

It's been indicated that the microRendu has some circuitry similar to the USB Regen inside:

 

1) is this correct?

2)If so, does it mean that if using the microRendu we don't really need a Regen between it and the DAC?

The microRendu does contain a circuit which is essentially an improved REGEN. There is no need to add an external REGEN between it and a DAC.

 

John S.

[Freann]

Awesome! Sign me up!

Im counting on it outperforming my tweaked mac mini. This little box will simplify my setup in a big way.

[elnino]

The microRendu does contain a circuit which is essentially an improved REGEN. There is no need to add an external REGEN between it and a DAC.

 

John S.

 

John, is the circuit (essentially) an improved AMBER Regen?

[Superdad]

John, is the circuit (essentially) an improved AMBER Regen?

 

Does not really apply.

 

What made the original "green" REGEN (these were a change to the LED color to differentiate without having to change/mark the case)--of which there were only ever 98 units--all upgraded long ago, and we recently passed the 3000 mark, into an "amber" REGEN were the addition of resistors on the USB input ground and shield lines. They made USB ground line noise take other paths, and for some reason made a remarkable difference in bass detail.

 

But the input to the microRendu is already galvanically isolated Ethernet, so there is no place or point to add the resistors that made the REGEN an "amber."

 

As for what makes the "REGEN circuit" in a microRendu improved over what comes in my USB REGEN product, it is just an even lower noise voltage regulator dedicated to the hub chip.

 

Trust me, from all the inside details I know about the microRendu hardware (Jesus is likely asleep on the east coast when John is up late at night and wants to chat--so he calls me )--including a really big technology surprise yet to be announced--the major musical magic of the microRendu owes relatively little to the "REGEN" hub-chip output circuit.

 

So far I have only heard John rave about what he has been hearing (and he is not one to exaggerate), but in about 29 hours he will be at my place with both the microRendu, and his Bottlehead DAC (along with some test boards for one of our projects together). I can't wait!

I only wish he was going to be able to stay and play longer (he sings in his church choir and has a solo performance Sunday morning--he lives 3+ hours from me).

 

Guess I may be the first with a report about the sound from a pre-production microRendu (powered by a JS-2 of course). I'll have to check with Jesus to find out if he is cool with my telling about what I heard--especially given that there are a couple of small things that might change and advance it even further. But I'm making preparations and pulling out the adult undergarments!

 

--Alex C.

[jumper]

Tough to follow an awesome post like Alex's but I have a quick question. My current homemade server currently runs JRiver and plays from local SSD. Can I use this server as a control PC and just switch JRiver to DLNA mode? More importantly, Can I still load songs to RAM and play from memory in this mode? Or is there a setup that would yield better sound quality (HQ Player not withstanding)?

[firedog]

Alex-

 

You, John, and Jesus have basically convinced me to be an early adopter. Can't wait to hear what you think.

 

Can I suggest you guys try it also with a modest PS so you can give us an idea what kind of differnce a high end one makes?

[firedog]

Jesus-

 

Will the circuitry of the micro also make my SOtM LAN filter superfluous? (Wouldn't bother me if it did ).

 

thanks

[hifi_swlon]

I see from a post above a reference to ethernet being galvanically isolated, but I'd also read elsewhere (including this very forum) that copper ethernet may not be 100% isolated, and can possibly be improved by further optical isolation. Is this anticipated as a requirement to maximise the micro-rendu's potential, or is it deemed fully galvanically isolated?

 

Also, excuse my ignorance, but are Sonore and Uptone 'related' somehow, or is this product a joint venture or something like that?

[Superdad]

 

Also, excuse my ignorance, but are Sonore and Uptone 'related' somehow, or is this product a joint venture or something like that?

 

No, it is just that John Swenson designs circuits for both of us. Sonore and UpTone have been fortunate enough to share John's genius for some time. We--separately--mix John's inspirations with our ideas, market knowledge, company goals, and production capabilities to bring forth world-class components.

Certain techniques John discovers along the way remain his IP (intellectual property) and may get incorporated in more than one product. The REGEN circuit being an example. Other more intensive development projects/technologies may stay somewhat exclusive with our respective firms. It is somewhat fluid and John, Jesus, and I work things our among ourselves informally.

 

Hope that clears things up a bit. I'm really just a fan and champion of the microRendu, Sonore, and John Swenson just like everyone else. I've just been privileged to watch is develop behind the scenes over the past year and I hear details as the preamble to my calls with John before we get to the engineering discussions his projects with me (such as the forthcoming FPGA-based LPS and other goodies).

 

--Alex C.

[hifial]

Alex-

 

You, John, and Jesus have basically convinced me to be an early adopter. Can't wait to hear what you think.

 

Can I suggest you guys try it also with a modest PS so you can give us an idea what kind of differnce a high end one makes?

 

+1 Also on the modest PS vs a high end difference heard if possible.

[Distinctive]

When I first got a SOtM sMS-100, I did lots of experiments with wireless (Airport Express bridge) and powerline connections (Netgear, etc). No luck for FLAC 96/24. Too many dropouts, distortion, totally unusable in the evening when the neighborhood hummed with interference sources. Gave up, all wired with CAT-6 and 1Gb router and switches now, zero problems since then. I don't know the exact differences between the sMS-100 and the microRendu, but they run versions of the same software and I doubt they'd be hugely different in their ability to deal with bad networks (Jesus can correct me).

I have no problems with my Aries on wifi and no problems when using my Ethernet bridge for any resolution. I am on 5GHz and use 802.11ac.

If we are discussing wifi vs. hardwired I can appreciate hesitations out there based on experience, but there is nothing specifically saying that a solution based on an Ethernet bridge should be particulary weary, IMO.

[Albrecht]

Does not really apply.

 

What made the original "green" REGEN (these were a change to the LED color to differentiate without having to change/mark the case)--of which there were only ever 98 units--all upgraded long ago, and we recently passed the 3000 mark, into an "amber" REGEN were the addition of resistors on the USB input ground and shield lines. They made USB ground line noise take other paths, and for some reason made a remarkable difference in bass detail.

 

But the input to the microRendu is already galvanically isolated Ethernet, so there is no place or point to add the resistors that made the REGEN an "amber."

 

As for what makes the "REGEN circuit" in a microRendu improved over what comes in my USB REGEN product, it is just an even lower noise voltage regulator dedicated to the hub chip.

 

Trust me, from all the inside details I know about the microRendu hardware (Jesus is likely asleep on the east coast when John is up late at night and wants to chat--so he calls me )--including a really big technology surprise yet to be announced--the major musical magic of the microRendu owes relatively little to the "REGEN" hub-chip output circuit.

 

So far I have only heard John rave about what he has been hearing (and he is not one to exaggerate), but in about 29 hours he will be at my place with both the microRendu, and his Bottlehead DAC (along with some test boards for one of our projects together). I can't wait!

I only wish he was going to be able to stay and play longer (he sings in his church choir and has a solo performance Sunday morning--he lives 3+ hours from me).

 

Guess I may be the first with a report about the sound from a pre-production microRendu (powered by a JS-2 of course). I'll have to check with Jesus to find out if he is cool with my telling about what I heard--especially given that there are a couple of small things that might change and advance it even further. But I'm making preparations and pulling out the adult undergarments!

 

--Alex C.

 

 

Hi Alex,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. To say that I'm psyched to get one ASAP is an extreme understatement.

 

Cheers,

[vortecjr]

hi jesus,

I was hoping you could chime in and comment on our questions about the possibility of your distribution to europe...thanks.

 

It's being looked into, but I have nothing more to report.

[vortecjr]

Tough to follow an awesome post like Alex's but I have a quick question. My current homemade server currently runs JRiver and plays from local SSD. Can I use this server as a control PC and just switch JRiver to DLNA mode? More importantly, Can I still load songs to RAM and play from memory in this mode? Or is there a setup that would yield better sound quality (HQ Player not withstanding)?

 

You can use that computer as a DLNA server in combination with microRendu in DLNA/MPD output mode. In this combination the microRendu is the player not JRiver. This will be a great sounding combination.

[vortecjr]

Alex-

 

You, John, and Jesus have basically convinced me to be an early adopter. Can't wait to hear what you think.

 

Can I suggest you guys try it also with a modest PS so you can give us an idea what kind of differnce a high end one makes?

 

 

I have a feeling there will be enough people taking about their experience with a modest power supply because there will not be enough hi-end power supplies to go around.

[vortecjr]

I have no problems with my Aries on wifi and no problems when using my Ethernet bridge for any resolution. I am on 5GHz and use 802.11ac.

If we are discussing wifi vs. hardwired I can appreciate hesitations out there based on experience, but there is nothing specifically saying that a solution based on an Ethernet bridge should be particulary weary, IMO.

 

Well if you don't mind...I'll just send you all the Wi-Fi bridge tech support questions:)

[zorntel]

I have no problems with my Aries on wifi and no problems when using my Ethernet bridge for any resolution. I am on 5GHz and use 802.11ac.

If we are discussing wifi vs. hardwired I can appreciate hesitations out there based on experience, but there is nothing specifically saying that a solution based on an Ethernet bridge should be particulary weary, IMO.

 

Ditto. I have a fiber/gigabit Cat7 connection and a 450mbps 5ghz wireless bridge to my two systems. These connect to my main network which contains several computers for roon and hqplayer. I've run DSD256 from HQplayer to a Sonicorbiter SE in both set ups with absolutely no problems with dropouts...plenty of bandwidth. In fact I've even run DSD512...also no problem. But then again there is no competition from anything else on those legs...I have the kids with their gaming and youtube on their own wireless network :-)

 

Robert

[jumper]

Does anybody think there would be a discernable difference between the Teddy Pardo and Channel Island psu's? They are both 9v 2 amp. Small difference in price but I've never read any comparisons between the two. I know Uptone's psu is forthcoming but I was looking at units that are available now.

[petalthecat]

Over the years I have been a devote supporter of JPlay and Highend's Audiophile Optimizer. My systems is highly optimized dual PC computer systems with number of linear power supplies supplying Ram, SSD drives, PPa usb card and motherboard. From some of the speculation on this thread it would seem that the micorendu may make systems like this redundant. If this turns out to be true what can be salvaged from a system like mine? Can the control PC still be used as that and can JPlay streamer stream to the microRendu?

[BobSherman]

Over the years I have been a devote supporter of JPlay and Highend's Audiophile Optimizer. My systems is highly optimized dual PC computer systems with number of linear power supplies supplying Ram, SSD drives, PPa usb card and motherboard. From some of the speculation on this thread it would seem that the micorendu may make systems like this redundant. If this turns out to be true what can be salvaged from a system like mine? Can the control PC still be used as that and can JPlay streamer stream to the microRendu?

 

JPlay would not work with the MicroRendu, but you could use HQPlayer and use it as an NAA and your control system for the HQPlayer application.

 

I would not jump to conclusion regarding your current system. I also run a similar system and have done comparisons with many small systems and I am still very happy with my linear PS - Xeon - Server 2012 - AO - JPlay - PPA USB - Regen system. The MicroRendu seems like an amazing system which will set new standards, but there are many ways to reach the quality we are trying to obtain IMO.

 

Now if you are talking about physically downsizing, and the flexibility of the many different modes Sonic Orbiter has to offer, then there is no contest.

 

Regards

Bob

[vortecjr]

Does anybody think there would be a discernable difference between the Teddy Pardo and Channel Island psu's? They are both 9v 2 amp. Small difference in price but I've never read any comparisons between the two. I know Uptone's psu is forthcoming but I was looking at units that are available now.

 

My interest in these is reputation in addition to the fact that one is based on North America and other is based in Europe.