Sonore microRendu

[Cormorant]

Perhaps a weird question for those of us on a tight budget, how would the SOSE + upgraded power supply stack up vs. the Microrendu with standard power supply?

 

Sbank,

 

It seems to me the best long term solution for tight budgets might be to get the microRendu with a standard power supply soon and then upgrade to the Uptone "mystery" supply later when funds allow. This is theoretical, of course -- based on my experience of other audiophile computers and such, since I haven't heard either of the devices yet.

 

For even tighter budgets or for second systems or for family member systems the SonicOrbiter SE could be an excellent choice.

[Albrecht]

It's still 6-9 VDC.

 

Jesus R

 

 

Thank you!!

 

Seems like a really great price, - especially when it's doubtless going to blow away any optimized computer.

 

So glad that this is close since my Mac Mini died. May I ask if one would have to load extra XMOS drivers onto the microRendu to get one of the XMOS USB to SPDIF converters to work: like the DXIO XMOS Pro3A?

 

"No drivers installation required for Linux with UAC2 compliant kernel"

 

XMOS 192kHz high-quality USB to SPDIF with ultralow noise 1uV regulator w/manual power switch - DIYINHK

[firedog]

It's still 6-9 VDC.

 

Jesus R

 

Any advantage/disadvantage running it at either extreme - either 6 or 9 volt supply?

[allenbonline]

Been reading these forums for many years, but registered so I could input onto this particular thread, that's how interested I am in this product.

 

Fundamental to me ordering this is whether it can handle the connection to a DAC downstream going down due to the inputs changing (on the DAC) or if it goes to sleep. Specifically, I would like to connect this to a Devialet 200. If the Dev's input is changed, or it goes to sleep (as they do) does the microRendu need to be rebooted every time to re-establish the connection? I do know that the Dev does a 'handshake' when the USB input is switched to or awakened, it would be great if the microRendu just re-establishes the USB connection with no further user involvement?

[Blake]

Jesus, would the following chain work?

 

MacBook Pro (running Roon) > router (I understand from earlier posts I need to insert a router here) > microRendu > Berkeley Alpha USB to AES converter > LH Labs Vi Dac

[Distinctive]

Based on comments herein I assume that the pricing strategy is set cost plus rather than market price.

 

Will the MicroRendu be CE marked for Europe?

[vortecjr]

I don't understand why this is the case with Amanero/Lampi. Their Lampi DSD computer supports Linux and they promote it on their site as the perfect companion to their higher level DSD DACs...why is there such a compatibility issue?

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

That is a question for them.

[vortecjr]

Definitely out of my budget... These small computer cards are supposed to be cheap, not the price of an iPhone!!!

 

Understood. I hope the Sonicorbiter SE is an option for you though.

[vortecjr]

I wanted to add one final thing: Exactly 2 days ago, I was looking at my mini-ITX motherboard and was thinking that for an audio use, I don't need all these ports and expansions and the PCI lanes and the onboard wifi chip, etc, etc. Then it hit me; how about if I could find a place to customise a motherboard or better yet try to order my own customised motherboard with just the things I want on it.

The idea behind this was simple: each and every thing on the motherboard produces some kind of noise, thus totaling a significant amount of noise. By, reducing the amount of electrical noise, theoretically, I should get a more "clean" power and signal from the computer - I know, childish thought, but I think it's logical up to a point - bear with me, as I am no tech-guru or engineer genius.

 

Of course, after my short research, I found out that the designing alone of such a motherboard would be VERY difficult, not to mention how very-very-very-very expensive it would be, even to produce 1 prototype, let alone a final product, especially for 1 quantity.

 

Why am I saying all this? Because the microRendu concept IS THE WAY TO GO WITH USB!!! It has to be fought at the very core, and that's the motherboard/PCB itself. Thus, I am completely in line with the Sonore team and John Swenson, and I believe this is it and this is the ONLY way to fight USB noise/jitter, etc. We need customised boards with good power supplies, providing JUST THE VERY BASIC.

 

Thus, I have to wish the guys good luck and I hope they enjoy their "monopoly" (in a good sense), and for the time being. I am hoping that they will start collaborating with other companies and/or other companies will start copying their concept and start producing their own boards and micro-computers...But, in the end, this is it!!!

 

Once, we can get as clean of a USB signal from the computer, I am sure that USB filters/conditioners and such will become obsolete and we will only need a good clock and then send the signal straight to the DAC. In this instance, I am in line with the German people in terms of the use of a good clock prior to a DAC...

 

Thank You.

[vortecjr]

Jesus, can you give us some guidance on power supplies for the microRendu?

 

You have listed on the microRendu page:

 

Standard power supply

CIAudio linear power supply

Teddy Pardo linear power supply

Sonore Signature Series linear power supply

 

Questions:

 

1. I'd guess that is in ascending order of quality, with Standard being the least, and Sonore Signature being the best one. Is that correct?

 

 

2. What size/type of barrel connector do we need to connect to the microRendu?

 

The CIAudio and Teddy Pardo are great options, but we have not used them in testing. They meet the specification and solve certain problems for us. For testing we are using a custom PS built by Barrows and the Uptone Audio JS-2. I don't think Sonore will build an external powers supply. The input connector is 2.1mm x 5.5mm.

[vortecjr]

Firedog, thanks for saving me all that typing of same question.

 

Jesus, if you are planning on stocking these power supplies and selling as package options with Microrendu, those package prices are certainly of great interest.

 

Perhaps a weird question for those of us on a tight budget, how would the SOSE + upgraded power supply stack up vs. the Microrendu with standard power supply?

 

Thanks for your efforts and patience with us all here. All this communication must be a constant test of self-restraint and a distraction from the design/manufacturing to boot.

 

We carry stock of the SOtM battery supply and we will carry stock of the iFi iPower supply. Others will be recommendations only for now. We will revaluate things in 6 months and see what makes sense then. John is the only one who has heard the two in the same system. Right now I'm just waiting the same as you guys....

[vortecjr]

Thank you!!

 

Seems like a really great price, - especially when it's doubtless going to blow away any optimized computer.

 

So glad that this is close since my Mac Mini died. May I ask if one would have to load extra XMOS drivers onto the microRendu to get one of the XMOS USB to SPDIF converters to work: like the DXIO XMOS Pro3A?

 

"No drivers installation required for Linux with UAC2 compliant kernel"

 

XMOS 192kHz high-quality USB to SPDIF with ultraslow noise 1uV regulator w/manual power switch - DIYINHK

 

It should just work.

[vortecjr]

Any advantage/disadvantage running it at either extreme - either 6 or 9 volt supply?

 

John, can you answer this one?

[vortecjr]

Been reading these forums for many years, but registered so I could input onto this particular thread, that's how interested I am in this product.

 

Fundamental to me ordering this is whether it can handle the connection to a DAC downstream going down due to the inputs changing (on the DAC) or if it goes to sleep. Specifically, I would like to connect this to a Devialet 200. If the Dev's input is changed, or it goes to sleep (as they do) does the microRendu need to be rebooted every time to re-establish the connection? I do know that the Dev does a 'handshake' when the USB input is switched to or awakened, it would be great if the microRendu just re-establishes the USB connection with no further user involvement?

 

I saw your post on the other forum. Most of the outputs are fine with this, but it appears that NAA does not play nice with your device when it goes to sleep. We could have a look and see what can be done, but I can't promise anything because we do not have a unit here to replicate the symptom.

[vortecjr]

Jesus, would the following chain work?

 

MacBook Pro (running Roon) > router (I understand from earlier posts I need to insert a router here) > microRendu > Berkeley Alpha USB to AES converter > LH Labs Vi Dac

 

Yes.

[vortecjr]

Based on comments herein I assume that the pricing strategy is set cost plus rather than market price.

 

Will the MicroRendu be CE marked for Europe?

 

Cost plus. The unit itself will not and the power supply will.

[JohnSwenson]

John, can you answer this one?

 

There is no advantage from a strictly voltage perspective, all the voltage regulators perform just as well with anything in the range.

 

The big issue is thermal. The microRendu contains both switching regulators and linear regulators, the switching ones are very efficient so the heat dissipated does not vary with input voltage, but the linear ones DO generate more heat as the input voltage increases.

 

The microRendu itself, gets a little warm at 6V a quite warm at 9V, all well within the operating range. The other input is what current a VBUS powered DAC uses. If your DAC uses the full 0.5A from the VBUS, the VBUS regulator in the microRendu will be generating a lot of heat, this could cause overheating depending on how much ventilation your microRendu gets.

 

If the case ever gets too hot to hold your finger on it, it is too hot, either decrease the voltage or provide more ventilation. But this could only happen if you have a DAC that pulls close to the maximum current (0.5A). If your DAC doesn't use any current from the VBUS or only uses a small amount, then anything in the 6-9V range should be fine.

 

Temperatures above the "I can't hold my finger on the surface" will not immediately fry the microRendu, but they will decrease it's operating lifetime. It's a cumulative thing, finding out that it was running really for a few hours is not going to cause any problem, it is the running really really hot 24/7 for months that will shorten the lifespan.

 

There is a whole different issue here. I have found that almost all digital audio circuits actually sound better when they are warm, so running a microRendu at 9V (as long as the DAC doesn't draw appreciable current) is probably going to sound better then at a lower voltage simply because it will be warmer.

 

The upshot is I cannot give any hard and fast rules. The microRendu is going to sound fantastic at any voltage in the range, maybe a little better at higher ones, but be careful about getting too hot.

 

John S.

[YashN]

NAA is a great output mode, but I have no reservations about recommending the other output modes.

 

For sure. I should have mentioned that this is the particular use I would put it to in my system.

[YashN]

Remember why we are here...because someone spilled the beans last year before we were anywhere near going to market with this product.

 

To be fair, it was your own responsibility not to publish your information page on your public-facing website at the time before you were ready. This got it indexed by Google and could easily be found by anyone.

 

Now, the person you're referring to for that episode, and who did nothing more than use Google, sure was very grating as well. WBF made him a sub-forum (big mistake) and now they've banned him a couple of times, and I see him over there as well as another forum (diyaudio) happily dishing advice he learned here from others (but with whom he had strong disagreements with here), passing it as his own knowledge. Funny guy!

 

As for the price: seeing the whole hardware work and the various software stacks, I think the price is totally fair.

[allenbonline]

I saw your post on the other forum. Most of the outputs are fine with this, but it appears that NAA does not play nice with your device when it goes to sleep. We could have a look and see what can be done, but I can't promise anything because we do not have a unit here to replicate the symptom.

 

Jesus, that would be great, it really is a fundamental issue regarding the NAA losing the USB connection, not necessarily of your making. You could try any DAC and simply switch it off, leave overnight and see whether the NAA sees it again when it's switched back on. Effectively that is what happens with my Dev. I am really trying to fathom out whether this is a HQP issue, or whether it arises out of the Linux processes and the USB bus.

 

I really want to press ahead and order one when they become available, but that urge could drop a little if the NAA becomes a pain to use, and a reboot is required every time the USB connection becomes live.

[firedog]

Jesus, that would be great, it really is a fundamental issue regarding the NAA losing the USB connection, not necessarily of your making. You could try any DAC and simply switch it off, leave overnight and see whether the NAA sees it again when it's switched back on. Effectively that is what happens with my Dev. I am really trying to fathom out whether this is a HQP issue, or whether it arises out of the Linux processes and the USB bus.

 

I really want to press ahead and order one when they become available, but that urge could drop a little if the NAA becomes a pain to use, and a reboot is required every time the USB connection becomes live.

 

I'm not sure this is relevant, but the DAC can be the issue. My DAC also can't see the NAA unless the DAC is switched on before the NAA is. If the DAC is switched off, the DAC won't see the NAA on when the DAC is turned on again. I have to turn off the NAA, turn on the DAC, and then turn the NAA on again.

 

As far as I understand this is an issue with the DAC USB implementation, not the NAA. The DAC won't see any USB device unless the DAC is switched on first. The DAC doesn't have any kind of "hot" ability for USB device switching.

[jimmy.kl]

Will the microRendu work with ethernet via a wireless bridge?

[hifi_swlon]

We carry stock of the SOtM battery supply and we will carry stock of the iFi iPower supply. Others will be recommendations only for now. We will revaluate things in 6 months and see what makes sense then. John is the only one who has heard the two in the same system. Right now I'm just waiting the same as you guys....

 

It would be great to have the option to order without a power supply.

[hifi_swlon]

...As far as I understand this is an issue with the DAC USB implementation, not the NAA. The DAC won't see any USB device unless the DAC is switched on first. The DAC doesn't have any kind of "hot" ability for USB device switching.

 

From what I've read elsewhere, in RoonReady mode connection with the Devialet would be re-established OK, but not in HQPlayer NAA mode. I believe there have been similar cases not specific to Devialet. So my guess is the NAA doesn't have whatever code is necessary to re-establish a connection with a device that's become disconnected. I don't think this is specific to NAA on Sonore's devices.

[firedog]

From what I've read elsewhere, in RoonReady mode connection with the Devialet would be re-established OK, but not in HQPlayer NAA mode. I believe there have been similar cases not specific to Devialet. So my guess is the NAA doesn't have whatever code is necessary to re-establish a connection with a device that's become disconnected. I don't think this is specific to NAA on Sonore's devices.

 

I was referring only to my model of DAC. Just pointing out that in some cases the "problem" is the DAC. The problem exists for all modes with my DAC, becuase of the DAC USB implementation.